Locomotive lashup restrictions imposed after unknown incident

[jimrice4449]

re; the above. This was when the stnd Valley unit was SD-9s.

Old Timer. I'm with you. In working for 3 RRs I've never heard the term "lash-up" except from railfans. It's always power consist, units, or (most often) engine.

[jimrice4449]

When I worked for the SP (1964-75) there was a restriction of 10 units max in multiple. This was pretty much the stnd power consist for Valley trains by Burbank jct. I don't think there was a particular incident but that the limitation was due to the limits of the MU system (although time for a full consist brake set-up could have something to do with it.)

[jeaton]

Old Timer

I have heard the Class 1 railroads have started to use raw hide, but each railroad uses the skin of a different animal.

[Anonymous]

Deadeyebobinsocal -

How does your company la***hem up? Do you use string? Duct tape? Baling wire?

Most railroads couple up units together to make consists. I've been around, and I've never seen a railroad "lash up" units together. I've heard about it a lot, though.

Old Timer

[Anonymous]

To Youngengineer:

Does your company allow 10 engine lashups, with all of them on-line, on the headend...have you ever seen a lashup of ten high horsepower engines, all on-line, on the headend? What would be the determining factor for a brake release problem on new, high horspower locomotives. Do they have brake release problems?

[gabe]

I think it was in Trains, but it may have been in a "lesser" magazine. But, anyway, I remember seeing an article about big six axle GEs, I think U30bs, but this isn't my area of specialty. In any event they were monsterous locomotives before the Dash era.

Anyway, the article had pictures of 9 such units regularly hooked up together. That had to be one heck of a lot more horsepower than 10 Geeps or RS units.

Gabe

[youngengineer]

the rule governing number of locomotives mu'd together has to do with setting and releasing brakes. The more locomtives in the consist the longer it takes to set and release brakes, and can have bad consequences as far as wheels sliding, flat spots, and over heated wheels.

[Lyon_Wonder]

Does this new restriction only apply to 4,000hp+ locomotives?

[Anonymous]

For Gabe, Randy and all others:

I raised the question about long lash-ups, because I live 75 mins from Cajon Pass, (in Southern California). While there one day, I was photographing trains. A stranger standing several yards away commented to his friend that "You'll never see anymore 10 locomotive lash ups here again". I didn't hear what came before that remark, or after it, but I was stunned to learn of that situation. Prior to that fateful day, you could go there and see Santa fe Yellow Bonnet engines in strings of 10, fairly routinely. As I thought about it, I couldn't remember seeing any 10 unit lash ups for a very long time. In recent times, the most you'll see now are 8-9 units together and there may be a dash 9 as the lead unit. I have been laboring under the impression that something had happened in the railroad world to limit the number of locomotives that could be physically connected together. Having not seen a 10 unit lash up in a very long time, I had to assume the stranger was alluding to an event that occurred causing a ruling or practice that outlawed the 10 unit locomotive practices. There may be nothing whatsoever to limit long lashups, but we don't see them any more and there was never an explanation to account for the absense of that condition. Randy Stahl, has commented that it's all about horsepower and that is the determining factor. I'll have to accept that as gospel because I certainly am in no position to know differently. Thanks for your responses

[Randy Stahl]

Modern steel knuckles and drawbars are rated for a maximum . The restriction is simply steel limitations . Guess which metal is tougher, the knuckle or the drawbar ?
Simpy put , the class "D" steel knuckes are rated for 150,000 lbs.
As far as 12 RS-1s , I wonder of the MU system would work without tripping the control breaker in the lead unit ( overload )

[CShaveRR]

I've never heard of a restriction such as this laid down by the Feds, but each railroad has had instructions regarding the number of units, number of units online, number of dynamic braking axles, and so forth, as necessary, for a long time. This is nothing new.

[gabe]

So, if I am a short line railroad, I can't lash up 12 RS-1s? I realize that isn't going to happen. I am just curious of the restriction. I have never heard this before.

Gabe

[Anonymous]

For Randy:

Define "High Horsepower"... EMD's GP-60's and GE's Dash-8-40B's, were advertising 4000 horsepower. Were these engines types, the fore runner of the exceeded draft problem? So, you are saying that number of engines lashed together is limited by their combined horspower, rather than simply the number of engines physically connected to each other? Taking it one step further, I gather that a railroad may, even today, if they have enough low horsepower units available, can still put together a 12-13 engine lashup at the head of a train and there would not be any rule infractions with that many power units mu'd together?

[Randy Stahl]

Before the advent of very high horsepower locomotives,a large consist of engines would be appropriate as the maximum drawbar forces would not come close to the maximums. A wheel slip on a low horsepower locomotive of a dozen or so low horsepower locomotives should not destroy the train. A slip on a high HP locomotive will tear a train to bits. The possiblity of stringlining a train and drawbar forces exceeding 150k in draft is the primary reason for DP. Even in the days of many MU'd locomotives this number could not be exceeded. With 1500 hp locomotives it would take many locomotives to approach this limit.
On dynamic brakes there are serious limitations on the number of breaking axles, read, reverse stringlining. Not to exceed 200k in draft .
Randy

[Anonymous]

for Randy Stahl:

There was a ruling some time back prohibiting locomotive lashups from exceeding ten units in one single segment. Prior to that time, railroads were routinely running lashups to answer horsepower needs, regardless of the number. Do you know of the event that changed that freedom and imposed the limitation of nine units maximum in a single lashup?