Who cares if passenger rail disappears ?

[brilondon]

I believe that there is still a place for passenger train service in Norh America and not just as a tourist trains which out side the corridors in Canada are all we really have. I think if Amtrak is serious about keeping the trains running they will have to find out what the public wants in train travel and how much they are willing to pay for the service. If the governments of both Canada and the US are going to have to pick up the cost of the trains then I believe it is in their best interests to do a study of needs and desires of the people riding the trains and determin the feasibility of passenger trains.[:)][8D]

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cystokid

The main competition to passenger rail traffic - the airlines,
.

The main competitor of passenger rail traffic AND the airlines is the automobile. Fuel is still at historically low prices and highway construction and maintenance is still subsidized. Much of cost of driving is sunk cost - depreciation - so train/fly/drive decision is usually based on time and out-of-pocket costs.

Now, here's a thought. Why not create a subsidy pool for rail projects equal to the property tax that's NOT collected on the interstate highway right of way? That would even the playing field a bit.

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cystokid

The main competition to passenger rail traffic - the airlines,
.

The main competitor of passenger rail traffic AND the airlines is the automobile. Fuel is still at historically low prices and highway construction and maintenance is still subsidized. Much of cost of driving is sunk cost - depreciation - so train/fly/drive decision is usually based on time and out-of-pocket costs.

Now, here's a thought. Why not create a subsidy pool for rail projects equal to the property tax that's NOT collected on the interstate highway right of way? That would even the playing field a bit.

[Anonymous]

We definitely need the resurgence of passenger railroading in America. Despite the skeptics whose purported expertise claims that profitability is not a viable concept, I disagree. Given the current state of affairs with the airlines who have been severely hampered by strict governmental security regulations and the escalated costs associated with them, timing couldn't be better for passenger traffic to return to the rails. This could even be possible in the private sector where competition would fuel ingenuity. This great nation has always been predicated on the concept of healthy competition in the private sector. Recently some very unethical corporate misdealings have muddied the waters, but not to the avail of diminishing the great American spirit. Yes, I strongly agree, by all means contact your representative and let them know how you feel. Giving up on an issue never got it resolved.

Cystokid[;)]

[Anonymous]

We definitely need the resurgence of passenger railroading in America. Despite the skeptics whose purported expertise claims that profitability is not a viable concept, I disagree. Given the current state of affairs with the airlines who have been severely hampered by strict governmental security regulations and the escalated costs associated with them, timing couldn't be better for passenger traffic to return to the rails. This could even be possible in the private sector where competition would fuel ingenuity. This great nation has always been predicated on the concept of healthy competition in the private sector. Recently some very unethical corporate misdealings have muddied the waters, but not to the avail of diminishing the great American spirit. Yes, I strongly agree, by all means contact your representative and let them know how you feel. Giving up on an issue never got it resolved.

Cystokid[;)]

[Anonymous]

We definitely need the resurgence of passenger railroading. Contrary to the skeptics whose purported expertise claims that there is positively no chance for profitability in the passenger sector, I suggest otherwise. Just because it didn't work in the recent past, doesn't mean it can't work in the future. The main competition to passenger rail traffic - the airlines, currently find themselves in a most unenviable position. Security costs and regulations have impacted the airlines exponentially. With the right leadership and entrepreneurial spirit, passenger railroading can come back - and in the private sector. Competition in America has always fueled the ingenuity in the business world. This great nation has always been predicated on this belief. Yes, I strongly agree, contact your representatives and let them know how you feel.

Cystokid
.

[Anonymous]

We definitely need the resurgence of passenger railroading. Contrary to the skeptics whose purported expertise claims that there is positively no chance for profitability in the passenger sector, I suggest otherwise. Just because it didn't work in the recent past, doesn't mean it can't work in the future. The main competition to passenger rail traffic - the airlines, currently find themselves in a most unenviable position. Security costs and regulations have impacted the airlines exponentially. With the right leadership and entrepreneurial spirit, passenger railroading can come back - and in the private sector. Competition in America has always fueled the ingenuity in the business world. This great nation has always been predicated on this belief. Yes, I strongly agree, contact your representatives and let them know how you feel.

Cystokid
.

[Anonymous]

There is another alternative, the bus. The little town I live in, Granbury, once had a daily bus service in both directions from Fort Worth to San Antonio along Hwys 377 and 281. Lately, this daily service has become a once a week service. Now we get the news that in September we will lose even this inadequate service.

The only busses earning any money are the charters. Similar to the airline industry, the only airlines earning any money are the short hop airlines, who pick and choose their cherry picked routes. The large airlines that have a hub system and fly into major and minor cities, plus international flights, are all losing money.

The citizens of rural America need to realize that any Scheduled bus service will soon be a thing of the past.... such as Granbury's scheduled bus service.....

[Anonymous]

There is another alternative, the bus. The little town I live in, Granbury, once had a daily bus service in both directions from Fort Worth to San Antonio along Hwys 377 and 281. Lately, this daily service has become a once a week service. Now we get the news that in September we will lose even this inadequate service.

The only busses earning any money are the charters. Similar to the airline industry, the only airlines earning any money are the short hop airlines, who pick and choose their cherry picked routes. The large airlines that have a hub system and fly into major and minor cities, plus international flights, are all losing money.

The citizens of rural America need to realize that any Scheduled bus service will soon be a thing of the past.... such as Granbury's scheduled bus service.....

[CG9602]

Let me chime in . . .
I live in a part of the uS where the only rail option for me is to drive 25 - 30 miles or so and then get on the single Empire builder, the single service that we have here in Western WI. having written that, let me draw the following analogy; would you choose to go to the ice cream store that has only 2 flavors, or would you go to the store that has more choice? If you're like most folks I know, you would want more choice in the marketplace, not less. Even though I don't ride the train every day, I at least want the option of riding it to MKE or FTL or other places to visit the relatives.

[CG9602]

Let me chime in . . .
I live in a part of the uS where the only rail option for me is to drive 25 - 30 miles or so and then get on the single Empire builder, the single service that we have here in Western WI. having written that, let me draw the following analogy; would you choose to go to the ice cream store that has only 2 flavors, or would you go to the store that has more choice? If you're like most folks I know, you would want more choice in the marketplace, not less. Even though I don't ride the train every day, I at least want the option of riding it to MKE or FTL or other places to visit the relatives.

[Anonymous]

you know scottydog, you are right.
however i would just like to add one more thing to him, I don't know how much of you know ancient litterature, but it's a word of warning to him as the great Aristophanes said and it is roughly translated and I quote:

QUOTE:
quoted from Aristophanes, 600 BC
Youth Ages, Immaturety is outgrown, ignorance can be educated and drunkenness sobbered, BUT STUPID lasts FOREVER.

and I think that has become evident that this idiom, which has survived the test of time, still applies to certain idiots of todays society, Even more so in our friend Cabforward.

[Anonymous]

you know scottydog, you are right.
however i would just like to add one more thing to him, I don't know how much of you know ancient litterature, but it's a word of warning to him as the great Aristophanes said and it is roughly translated and I quote:

QUOTE:
quoted from Aristophanes, 600 BC
Youth Ages, Immaturety is outgrown, ignorance can be educated and drunkenness sobbered, BUT STUPID lasts FOREVER.

and I think that has become evident that this idiom, which has survived the test of time, still applies to certain idiots of todays society, Even more so in our friend Cabforward.

[Anonymous]

Mr KevinstheRRman be careful about taking on cabforward after all, he is on a mission from God put here to, quote, POINT OUT THE ERRONEOUS WAYS OF OTHERS. and he doesn't care how he does it. Probably thinks sarcsam proves his point.

[Anonymous]

Mr KevinstheRRman be careful about taking on cabforward after all, he is on a mission from God put here to, quote, POINT OUT THE ERRONEOUS WAYS OF OTHERS. and he doesn't care how he does it. Probably thinks sarcsam proves his point.

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by joho2486

Yes, lives will be lost, but when PTC makes a train stop when it exceeds its authority, the rails will be ultra safe, meaning that the buff standards can be relaxed somewhat.

Many, many good points.

As long as most routes are dominated by 100 US freight trains, I think the buff standard need to stay as they are. They are helpful in derailments as well as collisions. And, even with PTC, there a no guarantee that a train can't move beyond it's authority. (there will have to be provision for moving PTC disabled trains, much as with cab signal disabled trains now.)

Gunn may be the last of the breed, but I'll bet lurking somewhere within the bowels of one of the frt class ones there's a worthy successor.

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by joho2486

Yes, lives will be lost, but when PTC makes a train stop when it exceeds its authority, the rails will be ultra safe, meaning that the buff standards can be relaxed somewhat.

Many, many good points.

As long as most routes are dominated by 100 US freight trains, I think the buff standard need to stay as they are. They are helpful in derailments as well as collisions. And, even with PTC, there a no guarantee that a train can't move beyond it's authority. (there will have to be provision for moving PTC disabled trains, much as with cab signal disabled trains now.)

Gunn may be the last of the breed, but I'll bet lurking somewhere within the bowels of one of the frt class ones there's a worthy successor.

[cabforward]

notice: the DETOUR picks up here.. continue with normal viewing..

[cabforward]

notice: the DETOUR picks up here.. continue with normal viewing..

[Anonymous]

Hey Cabforward i have one last lecture to say to you...

All of us at some point, are forced to look at ourselves in the mirror and see who we really are. When that day comes for you Cabforward, you will be confronted with a live lived without Virtue and without Principal.

And for that I pitty you.


Everyone who is reading this, cabforward jsut wants you all to Detour the Truth, but over time you will get to see what a scheming, meniacal, self centered excuse for a human being he is. It is ashame he tries to get people to detour around the truth

Hey CABBIE! the truth can hurt can't it bro?

[Anonymous]

Hey Cabforward i have one last lecture to say to you...

All of us at some point, are forced to look at ourselves in the mirror and see who we really are. When that day comes for you Cabforward, you will be confronted with a live lived without Virtue and without Principal.

And for that I pitty you.


Everyone who is reading this, cabforward jsut wants you all to Detour the Truth, but over time you will get to see what a scheming, meniacal, self centered excuse for a human being he is. It is ashame he tries to get people to detour around the truth

Hey CABBIE! the truth can hurt can't it bro?

[cabforward]

a so-called 'member' has quoted from a post of mine on this topic and replied as if the comment were directed at him.. not true, it was directed to another member..

apparently, this member is not deriving adequate satisfaction from his posts and feels driven to quote mine as if i were speaking to him.. poor man.. should we all form a circle and cheer him up?

he is from canada, does it matter?

notice: to preserve peace of mind and rationality, follow the DETOUR signs around the next post..

[cabforward]

a so-called 'member' has quoted from a post of mine on this topic and replied as if the comment were directed at him.. not true, it was directed to another member..

apparently, this member is not deriving adequate satisfaction from his posts and feels driven to quote mine as if i were speaking to him.. poor man.. should we all form a circle and cheer him up?

he is from canada, does it matter?

notice: to preserve peace of mind and rationality, follow the DETOUR signs around the next post..

[Anonymous]

Uhm I care if passenger trains dissapear.. because.. there goes my JOB!

And no quite frankly, i wouldn't care if my taxes were raised 10 cents in supposrt of passenger trains... if we raised everyones taxes by 10 cents up here.. the passenger industry would be fine...

how many of you complain about the charge that goes to 911 from your cell phone bill.. theres 25 to 49 cents a month!

AS far as i'm concerned "Uncle sam" can have 10 cents from me in order to save passenger trains..

QUOTE:
quoted from the one-and-only, most intelligent man alive (HA!) cabforward
where have you been? were you held hostage on an island somewhere between shangri-la and the land of oz?

No i was there... i got a discount at the Emerald Inn, via Hotelnetworks.com.. they got nice stuff there, except theres a spooky man!

[Anonymous]

Uhm I care if passenger trains dissapear.. because.. there goes my JOB!

And no quite frankly, i wouldn't care if my taxes were raised 10 cents in supposrt of passenger trains... if we raised everyones taxes by 10 cents up here.. the passenger industry would be fine...

how many of you complain about the charge that goes to 911 from your cell phone bill.. theres 25 to 49 cents a month!

AS far as i'm concerned "Uncle sam" can have 10 cents from me in order to save passenger trains..

QUOTE:
quoted from the one-and-only, most intelligent man alive (HA!) cabforward
where have you been? were you held hostage on an island somewhere between shangri-la and the land of oz?

No i was there... i got a discount at the Emerald Inn, via Hotelnetworks.com.. they got nice stuff there, except theres a spooky man!

[edblysard]

Thats what I have said all along.
Forget trying to make money at it, its a public service, or a public utillity.
The frieght roads were right when they shed themselves of it, it dosnt make money, hasnt since the twenties, never will.

But here a thought.
How often has the price of gasoline jumped up and down in the last three months?
Did you really notice?
Most didnt, they just filled up and went on with things.
Add a penny or two the the gas tax, which most folks would never even notice, and all the funding for a nationalized passenger service is there.

I ride the train, not because I am a railroader, nor for the "romance" involved.
I ride because the flight between Houston and Dallas/Fort Worth used to take about 2 hours total on Southwest, but now takes almost 8, and I can drive both ways in that time.

Because if something goes wrong, the most the train can fall is around 18 feet, instead of 10000 feet.
But mostly because it gets me there in the time frame I need it to, with out the hassle.

Unless the federal goverment takes over the entire airline industry, and runs it like a military operation, what you get now is a good as it will ever be!
And what we have now is worst than bad.
Options are running out, along with time.
Our national population is growing much faster than anyone had plannned, we are running out of time and space at a alarming rate.
Choices?
Build more, wider interstates?
You already know that would take so long that by the time it ever got finished, it would be obsolete.
Bigger airplanes,?
We are out of space to land the ones we have now!

You couldnt pay me to fly into JFK, or LAX.

So how do you sell railroad travel to the general public?
Well, Ike did a great job with the interstate as a national defense project!
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

Thats what I have said all along.
Forget trying to make money at it, its a public service, or a public utillity.
The frieght roads were right when they shed themselves of it, it dosnt make money, hasnt since the twenties, never will.

But here a thought.
How often has the price of gasoline jumped up and down in the last three months?
Did you really notice?
Most didnt, they just filled up and went on with things.
Add a penny or two the the gas tax, which most folks would never even notice, and all the funding for a nationalized passenger service is there.

I ride the train, not because I am a railroader, nor for the "romance" involved.
I ride because the flight between Houston and Dallas/Fort Worth used to take about 2 hours total on Southwest, but now takes almost 8, and I can drive both ways in that time.

Because if something goes wrong, the most the train can fall is around 18 feet, instead of 10000 feet.
But mostly because it gets me there in the time frame I need it to, with out the hassle.

Unless the federal goverment takes over the entire airline industry, and runs it like a military operation, what you get now is a good as it will ever be!
And what we have now is worst than bad.
Options are running out, along with time.
Our national population is growing much faster than anyone had plannned, we are running out of time and space at a alarming rate.
Choices?
Build more, wider interstates?
You already know that would take so long that by the time it ever got finished, it would be obsolete.
Bigger airplanes,?
We are out of space to land the ones we have now!

You couldnt pay me to fly into JFK, or LAX.

So how do you sell railroad travel to the general public?
Well, Ike did a great job with the interstate as a national defense project!
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

There is a very good article in the Sunday Chicago Tribune today. (24 AUG 03). There is a sentence in it, that I found very surprising." Americans are taking to rails in record numbers." Amtrak carried 2.2 million passengers in July the busiest month ever. (About 35,000 passengers a day. Mostly in the Northeast Corridor.)
In that article Mr. Gunn say's "Lets not indulge in this fantasy of self-sufficiency. This is a public service. Let's get on with it."
Maybe Amtrak has someone in charge who is not a dreamer, but a do'er.
TIM A

[Anonymous]

There is a very good article in the Sunday Chicago Tribune today. (24 AUG 03). There is a sentence in it, that I found very surprising." Americans are taking to rails in record numbers." Amtrak carried 2.2 million passengers in July the busiest month ever. (About 35,000 passengers a day. Mostly in the Northeast Corridor.)
In that article Mr. Gunn say's "Lets not indulge in this fantasy of self-sufficiency. This is a public service. Let's get on with it."
Maybe Amtrak has someone in charge who is not a dreamer, but a do'er.
TIM A

[PNWRMNM]

I care and I want them gone.

Since 1901 the US Government has been totaly anti-railroad, despite the fact that the economy was then totaly dependent upon them.

The Govt bleed the carriers dry with rate regulation and empowred the unions to strangle them with high wages and restrictive work rules. That is why the Govt. took the railroads over during WWI. Note the first thing they did was increase rates 25%, which that had forbade the owners from doing.

Amtrak cut half the service the day they took over. Kill the beast. Let the states take over the NEC, they are the big useres of it anyway.

No one is going to build high speed lines in this country for decades. The only way is to start from scratch. That means no Amtrak.

Mac