A Milwaukee Road Non-confrontational thread.

[Murphy Siding]

I've enjoyed this forum for over a year now. The one subject that seems to be most popular is The Chicago,Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific Railroad. Lots of discussion,dialog,questions, answers,......and fighting and name-calling. It's a shame,because it really is an interesting subject.
How 'bout we try something different? Anyone who has read current and past Milwaukee threads knows the *hot* topics, and the *usual suspects* involved. (I'm not pointing fingers-I'd have to call myself one of the usual suspects, who has been in on most of the hot topics.) Perhaps, it's time to rise above that?
With the wealth of knowledge,and diversified backgrounds of all of us,there is a lot we could learn from each other.If you feel the need to go*out *there, please restrain yourself enough to not spoil it for the rest of us-I'll try to do the same.



I'll start.

Who among us worked for MILW at one time?

Anybody ridden on MILWpassenger trains? How did they compare?

Who can tell me anything about Murphy Siding, on The Milwaukee Road, approximately 7 miles east of Rapid City, S.D.? As a kid, in the early 70's, they trucked bentonite to the siding, and loaded it into hoppers. Anybody?

Thank You

[samfp1943]

This will (or should be) an interesting thread to watch..
Certainly, the Fate of the MILW, and its legacy, are topics of spirit and passion, as we have seen here.

Sam

[solzrules]

I think this is a great idea. The previous thread was arguing about freight rates from 30 years ago, and it got a little boring. I know nothing (firsthand) of the Milwaukee Road, but after reading a ton of books and traveling across the country looking for the remains I got some kind of okay pictures. I will post them here later.

[Anonymous]

[|)]

[kenneo]

The real problem was certain "usual suspects" could not let any "fact" or "opinion" opposite to their own could not leave "those that were not in complete agreement" to their facts and/or opinions. My experience is that, with incredibly few exceptions, there are so many different parts to any subject, all of them will be correct to one degree or another.

We need to remember that, and then put that into practice. That is one of the real benefits of these forums - we receive all of the benefits of all of these varried opinions and this in turn makes us all better for the reading and posting.

[fuzzybroken]

Actually, here's a good question to go along with this. I've always understood that CMC Heartland (aka CMC Heartless) was the surviving "corporate parent" of the Milwaukee Road (railroad). Yet a recent newspaper article mentions that they "took over" the real estate operations of the bankrupt railroad.

Being a newspaper article, I'm inclined to think that they're full of ... , but I'm always up for learning something new.

BTW, the article mentioned that CMC sold the last of its land in the Milwaukee area in December...

[solzrules]

Okay here we go.
If these don't turn out please let me know!


Here's Loweth substation in July, 2005. This was in the middle of nowhere, Montana. I think it is amazing that the railroad trucked craftsmen all the way out here to build this. At one time they must have really bought into the electification thing.



This is the view west of Loweth. Pretty desolate. Check out that signal mast!



Another signal mast, July, 2005



I caught this bandit in Wauwatosa on the CP Line (former MILW ROAD)

(By the way I apologize if some of these are repeats. I will have a few new ones later.)



This bandit was in Sturtevant in April, 2003.



This covered hopper was on the DME in July, 2005. You can see the weld marks where the placard for "America's Resourceful Railroad" was.

Okay, here a some new ones.



This is a caboose I found in the back yards of the rr museum at Union, Illinois.



I know this is a crappy picture, but I was really young and had no idea what I was looking at. This is a MILW RD. SDL-39 in Theinsville, WI. I think the year was something like 1987 but I may be wrong. The loco already has Wisconsin Central reporting marks on it. Last I read, these engines were heading to Brazil.



Here I am again as a very young kid in Heartland, WI. This is the westbound Empire builder on the double tracked Milw Rd mainline. Today, the line is single tracked and the depot you see to the left of the train is a whole lot more decrepit. The siding in front of me still exists. It serves a WE Energies electrical switch yard for the delivery of transformers.



This DME unit was a former Milwaukee Road SD 40-2. When the Soo gave these locos back the leasing company in the late 80's they got sold to Helm leasing who rebuilt them (I think). Helm sold them to DME and that is where I caught this one.
Waseca, Minnesota, July, 2005



Here is my loving wife helping out in Montevideo, Minnesota. The date you see is the date stamp in a concrete footing for a roundhouse that used to stand here. From what I was able to read the roundhouse was out of service sometime in the 50's. In case it is a little fuzzy the date is 1906 (point of reference - the Titanic was still a big pile of steel sheets at this point!)



I THINK this is a restored Milw Road boxcar at Montevideo. I find it hard to believe the lettering would remain that crisp 20 years after operation. July, 2005



This is an abandoned station spur in Mobridge, South Dakota. July, 2005. Hard to believe that the Olympian Hiawatha was here not 60 years ealier.....



The Milwaukee Road's arch-nemesis, the BNSF, travels on the transcon rails today. Here is a unit corn train on the move at Beebe, South Dakota. Apparently there was the potential to earn some money with this line. Ah well. How do I know it was a corn train? The corn was blowing off like snow as the train went by! Kinda neat.



Here is the bridge at Mobridge, SD. Some have argued that this was the begining of the Milwaukee's "great mistake". If the railroad had not built any farther than this they may be around today. That is a debatable point, however. July, 2005



This is taken in Terry, MT. This is approaching the end of the line on the old Milwaukee Road transcon as it is know today. The mileage sign reads 1077.1. We're a long way from Chicago, baby!

Okay, that is enough for tonight. If I get a chance tomorrow, I will throw up some pics from the second half of our journey into Idaho.

[Murphy Siding]

solzrules: Enjoyed the photos, thanks. About 5 years ago, I was at a wedding in Mobridge. I tried to find the wye for the(long gone) branchline to Faith and Isabell just west of the river, with no luck. I assumed it should have been just accross the bridge, before the line starts climbing. In hindsight, I would bet it's under the river/lake, as the line was gone before the Missouri was dammed up. I *think* that is the third bridge at Mobridge.

The SDL-39: Local legend was that they were ordered for use on light duty branch lines in the Dakotas, but nearly every other picture I see shows them sonewhere in Wisconsin. Anybody know what the range of those beasts was?

[solzrules]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fuzzybroken

Actually, here's a good question to go along with this. I've always understood that CMC Heartland (aka CMC Heartless) was the surviving "corporate parent" of the Milwaukee Road (railroad). Yet a recent newspaper article mentions that they "took over" the real estate operations of the bankrupt railroad.

Being a newspaper article, I'm inclined to think that they're full of ... , but I'm always up for learning something new.

BTW, the article mentioned that CMC sold the last of its land in the Milwaukee area in December...

I also heard that CMC/Heartland Partners was trying to finally liquidate itself but there were some enviromental liabilities that were preventing it from doing so.

[MP173]

Solz:

Nice shots. I will be good on this forum.

ed

[jimrice4449]

The shot of the Milw wide vision caboose is interesting in as much as Milw only owned two. They were tacked onto a BN order to serve as part of Milw's contribution to a joint coal unit train. Odly enough i worked on one of them from Missoula to Spokane, but after the Milw shut down and I was working for the BN. It still had Milw paint but I don't recall if it had been numbered into the BN series.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jimrice4449

The shot of the Milw wide vision caboose is interesting in as much as Milw only owned two. They were tacked onto a BN order to serve as part of Milw's contribution to a joint coal unit train. Odly enough i worked on one of them from Missoula to Spokane, but after the Milw shut down and I was working for the BN. It still had Milw paint but I don't recall if it had been numbered into the BN series.

MILW and BN ran a joint coal unit train? Where at?

[solzrules]

I think it was out of Gascoyne, North Dakota. I remember seeing some pictures in a book somehwere. They were using bathtub gondolas that were retro-fitted with a homemade cover to keep the coal dust from blowing out in transit.

[MichaelSol]

Colstrip eastbound and Gascoyne to Big Stone. BN originated the train at Colstrip, and Milwaukee took the train at Miles City, one of the Eleven Western Gateways under the BN merger. Each company supplied half the power for a run-through operation. The Colstrip trains generated about $7 million a year for Milwaukee, and the Gascoyne coal trains about $6.5 million.

Bechtel Corp. designed the car covers for Milwaukee and I believe the covers were part of the order for the coal cars.

[solzrules]

Isn't Bechtel a construction outfit? I didn't know they messed with railroad equipment.

[MichaelSol]

Well, they were an "engineering and construction" company. That must have been the engineering part. According to their website, they got started in railroading: "In 1998, our organization observed 100 years of building. It’s a legacy that began with W.A. Bechtel’s work grading railroad beds in 1898 and continues to this very moment on hundreds of job sites around the world."

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol

Colstrip to Big Stone Power Plant. BN originated the train at Colstrip, and Milwaukee took the train at Miles City, one of the Eleven Western Gateways under the BN merger. Each company supplied half the power for a run-through operation. It generated about $2.5 million a year for Milwaukee.

Bechtel Corp. designed the car covers for Milwaukee and I believe the covers were part of the order for the coal cars.

BNSF still does that run. I hear them all day and night when I'm in Aberdeen,S.D. The cars with covers must be long gone.

[n012944]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by jimrice4449

The shot of the Milw wide vision caboose is interesting in as much as Milw only owned two. They were tacked onto a BN order to serve as part of Milw's contribution to a joint coal unit train. Odly enough i worked on one of them from Missoula to Spokane, but after the Milw shut down and I was working for the BN. It still had Milw paint but I don't recall if it had been numbered into the BN series.

MWK and BN ran a joint coal unit train? Where at?

In 1978 the MILW had two run thru coal trains with the BN. The first called Columbia I was interchanged with the MILW at St. Paul to serve the Portage, WI. plant. The second, called Columbia II, was interchanged with the MILW at Council Bluffs, IA. and also ran to Portage, WI.


Bert

[Anonymous]

As a former employee in the engineering department in Aberdeen and later in Chicago, I can tell you the following:

Fuzzybroker: Chicago Milwaukee Corporation (CMC) was the surviving parent company that held all of the land that the Soo Line did not get with the purchase of the railroad. There was a lot of valuable land. The asset purchase agreement was not as clear as it should have been and there was some disagreement as to what land should have gone with the railroad and what was to remain.

Solzrules: NIce pictures.

Murphy Siding: The Faith and Isabel lines lasted until near the end. When the Oahe dam was built around the early 1970's parts of the lines were raised to get them above water level. The bridge you see in the picture above is the new bridge that was built at the same time. We started running coal trains between Gascoyne and Big Stone about 1973. We extended several siding then to accomodate the longer coal trains.

By the way some of us former employees get together every year for a picnic and we will meet again here in the Chicago area in a couple weeks.

Larry

[PwdOpd]

Murphy Siding - One question you asked - did anyone ride the Miwaukee? I'll answer that one. Somtime between 1960 and 1967 when we lived in Huron, S.D. OI took a trip to Dayton. Ohio. Rode the Milwaukee from Aberdeen to Chicago. Morning Hiawatha from Minneapolis to Chicago and the Afternoon Hiawatha Chicago to Minneapolis. It was in September when the trees were in their best color and I rode upstairs in the full length dome car and just really enjoyed the passing scenery. It was one of the smoothest rides I have ever had on a train, and we were on time to the minute in both directions.
Also rode the Milwaukee from Sioux Falls to Chicago and return. Ride wasn't quite as smooth, but we were on time both ways.
By the way, I worked at Union Station in Omaha for 8 years and can say that the Midwest Hiawatha from Chicago to Omaha was an on-time train.

Paul

[Murphy Siding]

PwdOpd: I'm curious why you would go to Aberdeen or Sioux Falls to go by MILW, when CNW ran right through Huron?

[PwdOpd]

Murphy Siding

Good question! I think I have a good answer - Northwestern had quit their passenger service through Huron the year before we moved there.

Paul

[chad thomas]

As long as we have a non confrontational Milwakee thread I have a question. What kind of traffic controll did the Milwakee Road use? Both on it's transcon and the branches.

[solzrules]

I think the transcon was ABS territory.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cnwrwyman

Murphy Siding: The Faith and Isabel lines lasted until near the end. When the Oahe dam was built around the early 1970's parts of the lines were raised to get them above water level. The bridge you see in the picture above is the new bridge that was built at the same time. We started running coal trains between Gascoyne and Big Stone about 1973. We extended several siding then to accomodate the longer coal trains.

Larry

I guess my hunch was right, that I was looking in the wrong place for the lines. The old road beds are under water! From the lay of the land, the branch line must follow the creek/lake west of the bridge?
Do you recall if there was much of anything shipped off the Faith and Isabell lines? That's mostly dry, hilly cattle country. I never quite understood why they built those branches, that seemed to go no where.

[Murphy Siding]

Just did a little snooping on Google and Terraserver, and found the old branch line roadbed west of the Mobridge bridge-pretty much in plain sight. The bridge(or causeway?) accross the creek/lake is still there, although it appears to have a section removed to accomodate the states large fleet of walleye seekers. Guess it's not that easy to find some things from the shoulder of a highway! [D)]

Another long gone section of MILW track I've tried to find evidence of, was a *short cut*, between Hudson, South Dakota, and Rock Valley, Iowa. I've read hints of it's existence, but have been unable to find it ob a map.

[Anonymous]

Two MILW trips I took as a kid were from Davis Jct., IL. One was a roundtrip to Denver on the City of Denver overnight. The other was a roundtrip to Chicago. Don't remember which City train we took, but I remember spending time in the dome car. We went to Stouffer's Restaurant upon arrival in Chicago, and then shopped at Marshall Fields on State St. Had a snack in the Walnut Room. All fond memories.

Also rode Milw commuter train out to Deerfield from Union Sta.

[Anonymous]

Murphy Siding. The Faith and Isabel lines were not very productive and probably should have been abandoned earlier. Abandonment may have been delayed because a large area would have been without rail service but there is no service now anyway.

Larry

[Anonymous]

Chad Thomas. It has been a while so my memory may not be completely accurate and there may have been

[Anonymous]

Chad Thomas. It has been a while so my memory may not be completely accurate and there may have been some changes since I was there. The main line from Minneapolis to Aberdeen was mostly single track automatic block. There had previously been some double track but as I recall most of the second main track had been removed. I don't recall if we had any CTC in those areas where the second main track was removed. As I recall much of the track from Mobridge to Miles City was controlled automatic block. That is, the dispatcher controlled the signals as with CTC but the switches were manual. Although controlled automatic block was more efficient that regular automatic block, I understand there was not a lot of it and possibly it was later prohibited except in those areas where it had already been installed.

Larry