Slaves vs CSX lawsuit

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

I simply don't understand the thinking that we need to punish people. Anybody and everybody. I am not talking criminals, I am talking the above case and the McD's hot coffee case. Just because it is a corporation or a whole segment of people, let's puni***hem for things that may or may not be real. Let's never take responsibility for our actions. Just sue and blame everyone else. They want to punish for past behavior and yet Enron execs will go free and w/o punishment for what they did. Did I miss a boat here?

Same with railroads! I don't need to spell this out, you all know what I am talking about.

Jen

Kinda like how Bill (I didn't inhale) Clinton got elected when the national by-line was "zero tolerance"? Then issued an exit pardon to a nephew for a cocaine rap? Or the way our current president professes the only 'cure" for those with substance abuse problems is jail time, yet when dear sweet lil Noel Bush got picked up for writing bogus prescriptions, she was in and out in 10 days?

Hard not to inferr a "well your children should go to jail for it, not ours" mentality out of the whole mess

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

I simply don't understand the thinking that we need to punish people. Anybody and everybody. I am not talking criminals, I am talking the above case and the McD's hot coffee case. Just because it is a corporation or a whole segment of people, let's puni***hem for things that may or may not be real. Let's never take responsibility for our actions. Just sue and blame everyone else. They want to punish for past behavior and yet Enron execs will go free and w/o punishment for what they did. Did I miss a boat here?

Same with railroads! I don't need to spell this out, you all know what I am talking about.

Jen

Kinda like how Bill (I didn't inhale) Clinton got elected when the national by-line was "zero tolerance"? Then issued an exit pardon to a nephew for a cocaine rap? Or the way our current president professes the only 'cure" for those with substance abuse problems is jail time, yet when dear sweet lil Noel Bush got picked up for writing bogus prescriptions, she was in and out in 10 days?

Hard not to inferr a "well your children should go to jail for it, not ours" mentality out of the whole mess

[Mookie]

I simply don't understand the thinking that we need to punish people. Anybody and everybody. I am not talking criminals, I am talking the above case and the McD's hot coffee case. Just because it is a corporation or a whole segment of people, let's puni***hem for things that may or may not be real. Let's never take responsibility for our actions. Just sue and blame everyone else. They want to punish for past behavior and yet Enron execs will go free and w/o punishment for what they did. Did I miss a boat here?

Same with railroads! I don't need to spell this out, you all know what I am talking about.

Jen

[Mookie]

I simply don't understand the thinking that we need to punish people. Anybody and everybody. I am not talking criminals, I am talking the above case and the McD's hot coffee case. Just because it is a corporation or a whole segment of people, let's puni***hem for things that may or may not be real. Let's never take responsibility for our actions. Just sue and blame everyone else. They want to punish for past behavior and yet Enron execs will go free and w/o punishment for what they did. Did I miss a boat here?

Same with railroads! I don't need to spell this out, you all know what I am talking about.

Jen

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Just when I am exasperated reading the paper and listening to news, about the failure of this United States to make any sense any more and fear that common sense is doomed, I read the forum.

I feel much better. Now I wi***he politicians would read the forum and learn from it!
Probably like asking for a raise; ain't gonna happen!

Jen

There is an unspoken element to the rationale behind the lawsuit, that makes it worth (or seem worth) pursuing. There is a victorian elememt within the way most white folks are raised, that makes them "guilt based" in their interaction with others.

I'm no psychiatrist, I'll freely admit, but I've spent a lifetime observing the phenomenon, deep down at the core of it is an "if it feels good (and you do it) then you must be punnished. Entire schemes of our behavior are rooted in this philosophy, the most noteworthy (for it's "stand out" bizarre nature) is the "S/M" sexual whips, chains, and leather bit. Not all folks go in for it, I surely don't, but enough do.

"Guilt" is a part of this, and some peole surely have found a way to find pleasure in "guilt" for the way it makes them feel that they've sinned in excess, and need to feel guilty about it.

Enter "white guilt".

Now *there" is a subject I surely was born without, I had no recall of sins committed by past generations (in fact all 8 of my great grand parents came over from europe dring the 1880's and 1890's), but there is a focused effort, of which I only came into contact with in the past decade or so, to try and make me own "guilt" over something that happened before my progenitors even set foot in North America.

And I almost bought into it, until I sat down and asked myself "what the heck is going on here?"

You see, mom had trained me well that I should feel guilty for wrong doing. What isn't always so clear cut is, how/when/why to "own" that wrong doing, and it is the very basis upon which the "reparations" law suit is based.

My point? don't hate the people filing the suit, they are victims, just the same as you or I. The person to hate is your white neighbor who will try to convince you "it's the right thing to do", because it is he who can harm you, it is he who has drawn conclusions based upon an incomplete set of circumstances, and it is his vote that could ultimately harm you........

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Just when I am exasperated reading the paper and listening to news, about the failure of this United States to make any sense any more and fear that common sense is doomed, I read the forum.

I feel much better. Now I wi***he politicians would read the forum and learn from it!
Probably like asking for a raise; ain't gonna happen!

Jen

There is an unspoken element to the rationale behind the lawsuit, that makes it worth (or seem worth) pursuing. There is a victorian elememt within the way most white folks are raised, that makes them "guilt based" in their interaction with others.

I'm no psychiatrist, I'll freely admit, but I've spent a lifetime observing the phenomenon, deep down at the core of it is an "if it feels good (and you do it) then you must be punnished. Entire schemes of our behavior are rooted in this philosophy, the most noteworthy (for it's "stand out" bizarre nature) is the "S/M" sexual whips, chains, and leather bit. Not all folks go in for it, I surely don't, but enough do.

"Guilt" is a part of this, and some peole surely have found a way to find pleasure in "guilt" for the way it makes them feel that they've sinned in excess, and need to feel guilty about it.

Enter "white guilt".

Now *there" is a subject I surely was born without, I had no recall of sins committed by past generations (in fact all 8 of my great grand parents came over from europe dring the 1880's and 1890's), but there is a focused effort, of which I only came into contact with in the past decade or so, to try and make me own "guilt" over something that happened before my progenitors even set foot in North America.

And I almost bought into it, until I sat down and asked myself "what the heck is going on here?"

You see, mom had trained me well that I should feel guilty for wrong doing. What isn't always so clear cut is, how/when/why to "own" that wrong doing, and it is the very basis upon which the "reparations" law suit is based.

My point? don't hate the people filing the suit, they are victims, just the same as you or I. The person to hate is your white neighbor who will try to convince you "it's the right thing to do", because it is he who can harm you, it is he who has drawn conclusions based upon an incomplete set of circumstances, and it is his vote that could ultimately harm you........

[zardoz]

Me too, Mook, me too.

Perhaps some 'magazine'-type tv program like 60 Minutes should start a segment titled: "Stupidist Lawsuit of the Week/Month/Year".

[zardoz]

Me too, Mook, me too.

Perhaps some 'magazine'-type tv program like 60 Minutes should start a segment titled: "Stupidist Lawsuit of the Week/Month/Year".

[Mookie]

Just when I am exasperated reading the paper and listening to news, about the failure of this United States to make any sense any more and fear that common sense is doomed, I read the forum.

I feel much better. Now I wi***he politicians would read the forum and learn from it!
Probably like asking for a raise; ain't gonna happen!

Jen

[Mookie]

Just when I am exasperated reading the paper and listening to news, about the failure of this United States to make any sense any more and fear that common sense is doomed, I read the forum.

I feel much better. Now I wi***he politicians would read the forum and learn from it!
Probably like asking for a raise; ain't gonna happen!

Jen

[eolafan]

Here's a big fat joke in two words: AL SHARPTON

(Hint to those who don't remember the name....remember the Twana Brawley mess of about fifteen years ago...he tried and failed to pull off a scam on the public by claiming Ms. Brawley was sexually assaulted by white cops and that the City of New York was covering it all up....well, long story short, Sharpton and his buddies later were found to have fabricated the whole damn thing...and NOW HE IS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT...GIVE ME A FRIGGIN BREAK!!!

[eolafan]

Here's a big fat joke in two words: AL SHARPTON

(Hint to those who don't remember the name....remember the Twana Brawley mess of about fifteen years ago...he tried and failed to pull off a scam on the public by claiming Ms. Brawley was sexually assaulted by white cops and that the City of New York was covering it all up....well, long story short, Sharpton and his buddies later were found to have fabricated the whole damn thing...and NOW HE IS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT...GIVE ME A FRIGGIN BREAK!!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JoeKoh

I have friends from all nationalities why doesn't Cochran go after the sweatshop owners in NY that made his suit or the farms in the Carolinas that grow the cotton?
stay safe
Joe

Cochran doesn't care about "making it right", he's persuing the almighty buck.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JoeKoh

I have friends from all nationalities why doesn't Cochran go after the sweatshop owners in NY that made his suit or the farms in the Carolinas that grow the cotton?
stay safe
Joe

Cochran doesn't care about "making it right", he's persuing the almighty buck.

[JoeKoh]

I have friends from all nationalities why doesn't Cochran go after the sweatshop owners in NY that made his suit or the farms in the Carolinas that grow the cotton?
stay safe
Joe

[JoeKoh]

I have friends from all nationalities why doesn't Cochran go after the sweatshop owners in NY that made his suit or the farms in the Carolinas that grow the cotton?
stay safe
Joe

[Anonymous]

As always Ed; masterfully stated! Amen!
Ken

[Anonymous]

As always Ed; masterfully stated! Amen!
Ken

[edblysard]

Well said.
Back in high school, I pointed out that I though it funny that a few guys with guns could somehow "capture" 100s of African men, most of whom were well armed with spears, bows, blow guns ect, and somehow force these people to put on shackles and get in the hold of a boat.
My history teacher who was black, sent me to the principals office, for disrupting class.
Did some research, found out about the other tribes hunting, capturing, then selling their slaves to the slave traders, for sale here.
Took proof of this to class, after a three day suspension.
Got a week for that.
Just like the history books that portrays Santa Anna as some evil dirty mexican, who was trying to destroy the good guys at the Alamo. Well, actually, all he was doing was trying to take back what was legally his, and the legal property of Mexico and Spain.
We, the Texans, were revolting against our legal ruler, only the fact that we won allowed us to become a independent Republic/Nation, and write history as we saw fit.
Now, that dosnt detract from the bravery shown at the Alamo, on both sides.
Got another week for that one.
You cant take back the lives spent in slavery, any more that you can really re write history, some where some one will find the truth.
And paying for the sins of people dead several generations wont make it go away, or make the issue of slavery any more right or wrong.
Find me one living slave, and that person may have a legal issue, but paying the descendents for a crime that wasnt a crime when it happened, over 160 years ago?
The legal ramifications are enormous.
Are black people owed something?
Only what all Americans are owed, the chance to succeed, if they so desire.
Should we grade them on a lower scale, cut them slack, expect less from them because their skin is darker than mine, or because they may be descendents of slaves?
Well, I am the descendent of a Greman Jew, who fled his country before WW I, and spent 6 years in a POW camp in Texas.
Who is going to pay me for that?
He committed no crime, except being german.
Was I ever cut any slack, graded any differently, less expected from me?
Not a ice cubes chance in he**.
To do so would have robbed me of any incentive to do my best.
Why should I, if I know all I have to do is earn a c, and the grade curve will change it to a B+, why put forth the extra effort?

Thinking like that has caused a large segement of Americans to do the least needed, to perform at levels far below what they could.
And every time you expect less than the topmost effort from someone who is black, you do nothing but reinforce the fact that less is expected from that person,
so if less is received, it will be accepted.

I was allways taught that, given the chance, and given the expectation of top flight performance, most people, regardless of their color, will live up to that expectation.
Expect less, and regardless of their color, you get less.
Expect more than just good, and the results will often surprise you!
Ed




The other problem with this lawsuit is that instead of "healing " the problems of racism, it will creat more. None of us where around when this happened and none of us are responsable. The desendents of the the slaves owe the good fortune of living in this country instead of the war torn continent of Africa where every day you read about civil war, starvation, disease, and genocide. And if we are looking for restitution for slavory how come no one talks about the Africans that lived on the coast line that captured and sold the staves to the white men who sold them in this country. I think that it is time to stop useing the past as an excuse for what we haven't acheived and look forward to what we can do.

[edblysard]

Well said.
Back in high school, I pointed out that I though it funny that a few guys with guns could somehow "capture" 100s of African men, most of whom were well armed with spears, bows, blow guns ect, and somehow force these people to put on shackles and get in the hold of a boat.
My history teacher who was black, sent me to the principals office, for disrupting class.
Did some research, found out about the other tribes hunting, capturing, then selling their slaves to the slave traders, for sale here.
Took proof of this to class, after a three day suspension.
Got a week for that.
Just like the history books that portrays Santa Anna as some evil dirty mexican, who was trying to destroy the good guys at the Alamo. Well, actually, all he was doing was trying to take back what was legally his, and the legal property of Mexico and Spain.
We, the Texans, were revolting against our legal ruler, only the fact that we won allowed us to become a independent Republic/Nation, and write history as we saw fit.
Now, that dosnt detract from the bravery shown at the Alamo, on both sides.
Got another week for that one.
You cant take back the lives spent in slavery, any more that you can really re write history, some where some one will find the truth.
And paying for the sins of people dead several generations wont make it go away, or make the issue of slavery any more right or wrong.
Find me one living slave, and that person may have a legal issue, but paying the descendents for a crime that wasnt a crime when it happened, over 160 years ago?
The legal ramifications are enormous.
Are black people owed something?
Only what all Americans are owed, the chance to succeed, if they so desire.
Should we grade them on a lower scale, cut them slack, expect less from them because their skin is darker than mine, or because they may be descendents of slaves?
Well, I am the descendent of a Greman Jew, who fled his country before WW I, and spent 6 years in a POW camp in Texas.
Who is going to pay me for that?
He committed no crime, except being german.
Was I ever cut any slack, graded any differently, less expected from me?
Not a ice cubes chance in he**.
To do so would have robbed me of any incentive to do my best.
Why should I, if I know all I have to do is earn a c, and the grade curve will change it to a B+, why put forth the extra effort?

Thinking like that has caused a large segement of Americans to do the least needed, to perform at levels far below what they could.
And every time you expect less than the topmost effort from someone who is black, you do nothing but reinforce the fact that less is expected from that person,
so if less is received, it will be accepted.

I was allways taught that, given the chance, and given the expectation of top flight performance, most people, regardless of their color, will live up to that expectation.
Expect less, and regardless of their color, you get less.
Expect more than just good, and the results will often surprise you!
Ed




The other problem with this lawsuit is that instead of "healing " the problems of racism, it will creat more. None of us where around when this happened and none of us are responsable. The desendents of the the slaves owe the good fortune of living in this country instead of the war torn continent of Africa where every day you read about civil war, starvation, disease, and genocide. And if we are looking for restitution for slavory how come no one talks about the Africans that lived on the coast line that captured and sold the staves to the white men who sold them in this country. I think that it is time to stop useing the past as an excuse for what we haven't acheived and look forward to what we can do.