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  • From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania
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Posted by Modelcar on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 10:48 AM
....Railroading in the part of the country of my home...Southwestern Pennsylvania had such conditions as we're talking about. On one such situation on the Somerset & Cambria branch of ex B&O [a coal hauling branch between Johnstown and Rockwood], and right above our swimming hole as a youngster....was a 3% grade and a very sharp curve named "cat head turn"....It took 2 normal size steamers on the head end and much of the time, a Mallet on the end of the train to get the coal drag up through there. I'm pretty sure that was the ruling grade of that branch.

Quentin

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Posted by Modelcar on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 10:48 AM
....Railroading in the part of the country of my home...Southwestern Pennsylvania had such conditions as we're talking about. On one such situation on the Somerset & Cambria branch of ex B&O [a coal hauling branch between Johnstown and Rockwood], and right above our swimming hole as a youngster....was a 3% grade and a very sharp curve named "cat head turn"....It took 2 normal size steamers on the head end and much of the time, a Mallet on the end of the train to get the coal drag up through there. I'm pretty sure that was the ruling grade of that branch.

Quentin

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Posted by edblysard on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 10:20 AM
For the most part, engineers try hard to ease or eliminate curves on steep grades, but sometimes it cant be avoided.
A gentle or wide radi curve makes little difference to most trains, its the sharp, or tight radius cruves that cause problems.
Engineers avoid this combination whenever possible.
Take note of Horseshoe curve, and Tehachapi loop, both designed to gain elevation in as little space as possible, but both have releative gentle curves. You see trains stopped in the sideing at Tehachapi all the time.
Where a sharp curve on grade cant be avoided, and the curve is severe enough to affect operation beyond what the grade itself causes, then that curve becomes the ruling grade.
Most employee timetables will list the ruleing grade and its location.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

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Posted by edblysard on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 10:20 AM
For the most part, engineers try hard to ease or eliminate curves on steep grades, but sometimes it cant be avoided.
A gentle or wide radi curve makes little difference to most trains, its the sharp, or tight radius cruves that cause problems.
Engineers avoid this combination whenever possible.
Take note of Horseshoe curve, and Tehachapi loop, both designed to gain elevation in as little space as possible, but both have releative gentle curves. You see trains stopped in the sideing at Tehachapi all the time.
Where a sharp curve on grade cant be avoided, and the curve is severe enough to affect operation beyond what the grade itself causes, then that curve becomes the ruling grade.
Most employee timetables will list the ruleing grade and its location.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

23 17 46 11

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Posted by Modelcar on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 9:34 AM
Ed....Have a question. Can't the ruling grade be influenced by some combinations of curves along with the grade hence making that "ruling grade" possibly greater than another piece of track that may in fact be steeper but on tangent track...?

Quentin

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  • From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania
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Posted by Modelcar on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 9:34 AM
Ed....Have a question. Can't the ruling grade be influenced by some combinations of curves along with the grade hence making that "ruling grade" possibly greater than another piece of track that may in fact be steeper but on tangent track...?

Quentin

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Posted by Mookie on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 6:38 AM

Just a quick story. One night when I was literally running the tracks, I came upon a possume (That's hillbilly for opossum).


Jim - Hmmm - first a possum, then a duck - I can't wait!

I told one before your time - Dad hit a BULL in the tail section with his engine - threw him off into the weeds. Stopped - made conductor get off and go check the weeds, since he was sure that as fast as they were going, they killed it. Figured they would have to make a report and RR would have to pay for animal.

Conductor went down into weeds and when he came out, Dad said he never knew his conductor could run that fast! Bull wasn't doing too bad either!

Mookie

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by Mookie on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 6:38 AM

Just a quick story. One night when I was literally running the tracks, I came upon a possume (That's hillbilly for opossum).


Jim - Hmmm - first a possum, then a duck - I can't wait!

I told one before your time - Dad hit a BULL in the tail section with his engine - threw him off into the weeds. Stopped - made conductor get off and go check the weeds, since he was sure that as fast as they were going, they killed it. Figured they would have to make a report and RR would have to pay for animal.

Conductor went down into weeds and when he came out, Dad said he never knew his conductor could run that fast! Bull wasn't doing too bad either!

Mookie

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by Mookie on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 6:33 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

i still say we need to be able to post pictures on here!
[;)] Sure Kev, now that you have posted your picture, you are pretty brave about saying we need to post pictures!

The reason they won't let us do it, is because Marty has some good ones he wants to post. And if he does, we have to change the name to Exotic Trains!

Mookie

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by Mookie on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 6:33 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

i still say we need to be able to post pictures on here!
[;)] Sure Kev, now that you have posted your picture, you are pretty brave about saying we need to post pictures!

The reason they won't let us do it, is because Marty has some good ones he wants to post. And if he does, we have to change the name to Exotic Trains!

Mookie

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 4:20 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

i still say we need to be able to post pictures on here!


You can post a link for a home page with pics.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 4:20 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

i still say we need to be able to post pictures on here!


You can post a link for a home page with pics.
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Posted by edblysard on Monday, August 25, 2003 10:21 PM
Kev,
You should get a Victoria's secret catalog.
That kind of teddy,....[}:)]
Ed
QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

It was a Joke! theres no story behind it.. it's 110 degrees out.. Pol-E bears don't like that kind fo weather.. well most don't..

White teddy suit Ed, between you and me, one year my GF went out as a carrot for haloween. LOL.. A FREKIN Carrot! what's scary about that... other then the fact that you can see perfectly in the dark!

Jim i like your Questions, and if you go to page 3 or 4 or 5 on the main forum page maybe 6, 7 or 8.. you'll find an entire topic dedicated to torpedoes..

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Posted by edblysard on Monday, August 25, 2003 10:21 PM
Kev,
You should get a Victoria's secret catalog.
That kind of teddy,....[}:)]
Ed
QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

It was a Joke! theres no story behind it.. it's 110 degrees out.. Pol-E bears don't like that kind fo weather.. well most don't..

White teddy suit Ed, between you and me, one year my GF went out as a carrot for haloween. LOL.. A FREKIN Carrot! what's scary about that... other then the fact that you can see perfectly in the dark!

Jim i like your Questions, and if you go to page 3 or 4 or 5 on the main forum page maybe 6, 7 or 8.. you'll find an entire topic dedicated to torpedoes..

23 17 46 11

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Posted by edblysard on Monday, August 25, 2003 9:27 PM
Your correct, the ruleing grade is the steepest grade a train will face on or in that particular division.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

23 17 46 11

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Posted by edblysard on Monday, August 25, 2003 9:27 PM
Your correct, the ruleing grade is the steepest grade a train will face on or in that particular division.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

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Posted by joho2486 on Monday, August 25, 2003 9:19 PM
Hi there. I'm relatively new to these forums, though I've subscribed to Trains Magazine for about 3 years now. I would like to throw my question into this wealth of knowledge. I would like to know what a "ruling grade" is. What I believe it is is that on a long steep grade to the top of a hill, it would be the steepest section of grade if the grade wasn't constant. I may be wrong, but hopefully, this wealth of knowledge will be nice to provide me an answer.
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Posted by joho2486 on Monday, August 25, 2003 9:19 PM
Hi there. I'm relatively new to these forums, though I've subscribed to Trains Magazine for about 3 years now. I would like to throw my question into this wealth of knowledge. I would like to know what a "ruling grade" is. What I believe it is is that on a long steep grade to the top of a hill, it would be the steepest section of grade if the grade wasn't constant. I may be wrong, but hopefully, this wealth of knowledge will be nice to provide me an answer.
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 25, 2003 7:15 PM
i still say we need to be able to post pictures on here!
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 25, 2003 7:15 PM
i still say we need to be able to post pictures on here!
  • Member since
    March 2002
  • 9,265 posts
Posted by edblysard on Sunday, August 24, 2003 11:17 PM
Hi Mark,
Was just on a UP SD70M this afternoon, checked the flagmans kit. Still has torpedoes, along with fuses and the red flag.
Will take a photo of the torp, for those who are interested in what they look like.
Ed

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Posted by edblysard on Sunday, August 24, 2003 11:17 PM
Hi Mark,
Was just on a UP SD70M this afternoon, checked the flagmans kit. Still has torpedoes, along with fuses and the red flag.
Will take a photo of the torp, for those who are interested in what they look like.
Ed

23 17 46 11

  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 24, 2003 11:09 PM
Signaling is full of exceptions, but in very broad terms ...

Semaphores indicate stop in the horizontal aspect, proceed at reduced speed (per specific railroad rule) in the diagonal aspect, and proceed at maximum authorized track speed in the vertial aspect. This works the same whether the semaphore is upper- or lower-quadrant. Many semaphores do not have the diagonal aspect; to get a third aspect two blades are needed in combination (SP and UP Harriman standard).

Position lights replicate the semaphore arm's three aspects with three plain lights. The PRR and N&W were the major users of position lights; one of the best place to still see them is just east of Chicago along the Skyway.

Color position lights replicate the semaphore arm's aspects with three lights, and use the common colors as well -- red indicates stop, yellow reduced speed, green proceed. The B&O was the major user of the CPL; it installed them on the Alton when it owned it. Later this was the GM&O, then CM&W, then SPCSL, and now UP.

Cab signals are in broad use. UP has them on the former C&NW main line in lieu of wayside signals, and on its own main line between Omaha and Ogden to supplement wayside signals.

Torpedos to my knowledge are no longer in use. Yes, they're loud enough to hear in the engine. They're powerful enough to remove a hand from someone.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 24, 2003 11:09 PM
Signaling is full of exceptions, but in very broad terms ...

Semaphores indicate stop in the horizontal aspect, proceed at reduced speed (per specific railroad rule) in the diagonal aspect, and proceed at maximum authorized track speed in the vertial aspect. This works the same whether the semaphore is upper- or lower-quadrant. Many semaphores do not have the diagonal aspect; to get a third aspect two blades are needed in combination (SP and UP Harriman standard).

Position lights replicate the semaphore arm's three aspects with three plain lights. The PRR and N&W were the major users of position lights; one of the best place to still see them is just east of Chicago along the Skyway.

Color position lights replicate the semaphore arm's aspects with three lights, and use the common colors as well -- red indicates stop, yellow reduced speed, green proceed. The B&O was the major user of the CPL; it installed them on the Alton when it owned it. Later this was the GM&O, then CM&W, then SPCSL, and now UP.

Cab signals are in broad use. UP has them on the former C&NW main line in lieu of wayside signals, and on its own main line between Omaha and Ogden to supplement wayside signals.

Torpedos to my knowledge are no longer in use. Yes, they're loud enough to hear in the engine. They're powerful enough to remove a hand from someone.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 24, 2003 9:26 PM
d d
QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

It was a Joke! theres no story behind it.. it's 110 degrees out.. Pol-E bears don't like that kind fo weather.. well most don't..

White teddy suit Ed, between you and me, one year my GF went out as a carrot for haloween. LOL.. A FREKIN Carrot! what's scary about that... other then the fact that you can see perfectly in the dark!

Jim i like your Questions, and if you go to page 3 or 4 or 5 on the main forum page maybe 6, 7 or 8.. you'll find an entire topic dedicated to torpedoes..


Hi Kevin, I kinda thought it might be that is why I said I'll take the bait. Thanks for your comment on the question. I actually had a torpedo in my hand when I was about 15. KIDS What can I say.

Just a quick story. One night when I was literally running the tracks, I came upon a possume (That's hillbilly for opossum). Usually a possume will "play dead" when scared. This one however decided not to play dead. And if that wasn't bad enough he wouldn't let me get by. He was centered between the two rails. Every time I tried to go around him he would sneer at me. Then he starts charging me. It is midnight, I can't see anything, and you know how the tracks are most always higher than the ground around them I couldn't sneak by him. So there I was (high drama here) dueling with a possume with an attitude. I couldn't help but think "rabbies". He charged me about 5 times. All I could do was "give em the boot" and every time I kicked him he came back for more. You talk about the proverbial Mexican Standoff, this was it. Neither one of us was about to give in, tuck tail or run. Finally after about (what seemed like hours) a few minutes he ran off the track and down into the ditch never to be seen again. What a relief. The battle was over and the good guys (guy) won. And yes this is a TRUE story. I bet some of our railroad buddies have a story something like this they too can share.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 24, 2003 9:26 PM
d d
QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

It was a Joke! theres no story behind it.. it's 110 degrees out.. Pol-E bears don't like that kind fo weather.. well most don't..

White teddy suit Ed, between you and me, one year my GF went out as a carrot for haloween. LOL.. A FREKIN Carrot! what's scary about that... other then the fact that you can see perfectly in the dark!

Jim i like your Questions, and if you go to page 3 or 4 or 5 on the main forum page maybe 6, 7 or 8.. you'll find an entire topic dedicated to torpedoes..


Hi Kevin, I kinda thought it might be that is why I said I'll take the bait. Thanks for your comment on the question. I actually had a torpedo in my hand when I was about 15. KIDS What can I say.

Just a quick story. One night when I was literally running the tracks, I came upon a possume (That's hillbilly for opossum). Usually a possume will "play dead" when scared. This one however decided not to play dead. And if that wasn't bad enough he wouldn't let me get by. He was centered between the two rails. Every time I tried to go around him he would sneer at me. Then he starts charging me. It is midnight, I can't see anything, and you know how the tracks are most always higher than the ground around them I couldn't sneak by him. So there I was (high drama here) dueling with a possume with an attitude. I couldn't help but think "rabbies". He charged me about 5 times. All I could do was "give em the boot" and every time I kicked him he came back for more. You talk about the proverbial Mexican Standoff, this was it. Neither one of us was about to give in, tuck tail or run. Finally after about (what seemed like hours) a few minutes he ran off the track and down into the ditch never to be seen again. What a relief. The battle was over and the good guys (guy) won. And yes this is a TRUE story. I bet some of our railroad buddies have a story something like this they too can share.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 24, 2003 8:37 PM
It was a Joke! theres no story behind it.. it's 110 degrees out.. Pol-E bears don't like that kind fo weather.. well most don't..

White teddy suit Ed, between you and me, one year my GF went out as a carrot for haloween. LOL.. A FREKIN Carrot! what's scary about that... other then the fact that you can see perfectly in the dark!

Jim i like your Questions, and if you go to page 3 or 4 or 5 on the main forum page maybe 6, 7 or 8.. you'll find an entire topic dedicated to torpedoes..
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 24, 2003 8:37 PM
It was a Joke! theres no story behind it.. it's 110 degrees out.. Pol-E bears don't like that kind fo weather.. well most don't..

White teddy suit Ed, between you and me, one year my GF went out as a carrot for haloween. LOL.. A FREKIN Carrot! what's scary about that... other then the fact that you can see perfectly in the dark!

Jim i like your Questions, and if you go to page 3 or 4 or 5 on the main forum page maybe 6, 7 or 8.. you'll find an entire topic dedicated to torpedoes..
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 24, 2003 7:50 PM
Alright let me throw a few pucks out here on the ice and see where they go.

1. Semaphores At an early age I learned to read them and since our farm was right by the tracks and the tracks were the shortest way to our little town nearby I would run the tracks into town. (Please nobody tell ironhorseman--I was little then and didn't know any better.) When they were up all was clear. This in a nutshell was how I knew it was safe--no train coming. I have seen pictures of semaphores that seemed to signal differently than what I grew up with. So anyone having knowledge of their operation might address this issue.

2. Position lights Were they pretty much an East Coast "thing" and I guess into Chicago. They still use them, don't they. Someone please give us some light on this subject. And also what each position indicated and how it was read.

3. Cab Signals Lights and a horn or bell to indicate what? These too are still in use correct?

4. Torpedoes Do they still have and use them today on the railroad? Are they really loud enough to hear in the loco?

O K , that is enough for now. Looking forward to hearing all the answers. [^]



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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 24, 2003 7:50 PM
Alright let me throw a few pucks out here on the ice and see where they go.

1. Semaphores At an early age I learned to read them and since our farm was right by the tracks and the tracks were the shortest way to our little town nearby I would run the tracks into town. (Please nobody tell ironhorseman--I was little then and didn't know any better.) When they were up all was clear. This in a nutshell was how I knew it was safe--no train coming. I have seen pictures of semaphores that seemed to signal differently than what I grew up with. So anyone having knowledge of their operation might address this issue.

2. Position lights Were they pretty much an East Coast "thing" and I guess into Chicago. They still use them, don't they. Someone please give us some light on this subject. And also what each position indicated and how it was read.

3. Cab Signals Lights and a horn or bell to indicate what? These too are still in use correct?

4. Torpedoes Do they still have and use them today on the railroad? Are they really loud enough to hear in the loco?

O K , that is enough for now. Looking forward to hearing all the answers. [^]



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