Bad train pictures

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cherokee woman

What does "articulated" mean in conjunction with trains? (Simple everyday English will suffice for answers, please)?

Hello, Cherokee Woman! (I envy you, your "forum name" sounds so great!)

Besides articulated steam locomotives, there are articulated freight and passenger cars. Those cars are permanently coupled and they share the same truck between them, usually a 2-axle (4-wheel) truck, instead of each having the usual 2 trucks, so they are not easily separated. The double-stack container "well" cars are articulated if I'm not mistaken, each actually consisting of 4-5 cars with a single 4-wheel truck in between them, while the front and the rear end each have their own full 4-wheel truck so they can be coupled with other cars.
Spani***algo passenger trains are also articulated (also operating in the state of Washington), and they are so lightweight that they only have one axle (2 wheels) between their cars. French TGVs and many other trains also have articulated cars, while the power units are separate, or at least not articulated to the rest of the train.

I hope I made some sense here. [:I]
Best regards,
Oliver.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cherokee woman

What does "articulated" mean in conjunction with trains? (Simple everyday English will suffice for answers, please)?

Hello, Cherokee Woman! (I envy you, your "forum name" sounds so great!)

Besides articulated steam locomotives, there are articulated freight and passenger cars. Those cars are permanently coupled and they share the same truck between them, usually a 2-axle (4-wheel) truck, instead of each having the usual 2 trucks, so they are not easily separated. The double-stack container "well" cars are articulated if I'm not mistaken, each actually consisting of 4-5 cars with a single 4-wheel truck in between them, while the front and the rear end each have their own full 4-wheel truck so they can be coupled with other cars.
Spani***algo passenger trains are also articulated (also operating in the state of Washington), and they are so lightweight that they only have one axle (2 wheels) between their cars. French TGVs and many other trains also have articulated cars, while the power units are separate, or at least not articulated to the rest of the train.

I hope I made some sense here. [:I]
Best regards,
Oliver.

[cherokee woman]

Thank you Oliver! I think it is a little clearer in the brain now.

Thanks also for liking my forum name. I picked cherokee woman because I am 1/16 cherokee from my maternal grandmother. May not be a lot of cherokee in me, but I do have, on ocassion, quite an Indian temper!

The first time my mother met Walt (locomutt), she told him to NEVER make me mad: I go on a CLEANING streak, and NOTHING that is JUNK is left. So if I ever get the energy to REALLY clean the house exceptionally good, Walt is asking what he did to make me mad! BESIDES, it sounded better to me than locomutts wife, since you can't put in the apostrophe between the last t and the s.

[cherokee woman]

Thank you Oliver! I think it is a little clearer in the brain now.

Thanks also for liking my forum name. I picked cherokee woman because I am 1/16 cherokee from my maternal grandmother. May not be a lot of cherokee in me, but I do have, on ocassion, quite an Indian temper!

The first time my mother met Walt (locomutt), she told him to NEVER make me mad: I go on a CLEANING streak, and NOTHING that is JUNK is left. So if I ever get the energy to REALLY clean the house exceptionally good, Walt is asking what he did to make me mad! BESIDES, it sounded better to me than locomutts wife, since you can't put in the apostrophe between the last t and the s.

[Anonymous]

What amazes me, is that some forums seem to click and go on for ever. Like this one by Nora and more than that, has some worth while postings. I like it.

[Anonymous]

What amazes me, is that some forums seem to click and go on for ever. Like this one by Nora and more than that, has some worth while postings. I like it.

[Mikeygaw]

When a railroad abandons a line, does it retain the ownership of the line, or does the line go to the government?
if the railroad wanted to use the line after abandoning it, how would the railroad get it back?
If another railroad wanted to purchase an abandoned line, how would it do so?

and by abandoning the line, what exactly does the railroad save? i'd guess maintence, but what else?

[Mikeygaw]

When a railroad abandons a line, does it retain the ownership of the line, or does the line go to the government?
if the railroad wanted to use the line after abandoning it, how would the railroad get it back?
If another railroad wanted to purchase an abandoned line, how would it do so?

and by abandoning the line, what exactly does the railroad save? i'd guess maintence, but what else?

[dehusman]

Abandonement depends on the laws of the state and how the rarilroad "abandons" it. They may abandon operation, but retain the right of way.
They may abandon the right of way and sell it.
They may abandon the operation and the land reverts to the original owners.
Some right of way is leased or granted for purposes of operating a railroad. When the railroad ceases to operate on the land the lease or grant is revoked.
Just depends on where and how the land is conveyed.

Dave H.

[dehusman]

Abandonement depends on the laws of the state and how the rarilroad "abandons" it. They may abandon operation, but retain the right of way.
They may abandon the right of way and sell it.
They may abandon the operation and the land reverts to the original owners.
Some right of way is leased or granted for purposes of operating a railroad. When the railroad ceases to operate on the land the lease or grant is revoked.
Just depends on where and how the land is conveyed.

Dave H.

[mudchicken]

Mikeygaw:

Nothing is truly abandoned until the Federal Government says so via the Surface Transportation Board ("STB", the old Interstate Commerce Commission/"ICC") - state laws take a backseat to federal rules and many state rules are unenforcible. If there is not an AB- or FD- docket with an attached decision out there, it most likely is NOT abandoned. There are multiple cases out there where a local entity declared a lined abandoned only to be overruled by the Feds.

To start, take a look at http://www.stb.dot.gov....toggle into the "Electronic Reading Room" , "publications" and "FAQ" areas and start reading. ... to see where states and local government misinterpret the law, use the STB search engine and type in "Lees Summit" and "Kent, Washington" for openers (there area at least a dozen similar related cases in recent history as well)

Dave H. hit the nail on the color of title issue in his last 6 sentences. There are far to many people out there with a warped or totally wrong view of what abandonment is. A large part of my job is involved in sorting out messes created by others who guessed (wrongly so) that a rail line was abandoned or had reverted. Between the screwed-up view of the railroads taught in schools in their history classes and "old wives tales" that get more bizarre in each succeeding generation, the general public is often clueless when the abandonment issue comes into play.

I deal with, almost daily, certain county officials, civil engineers, surveyors and landmen who should never be turned loose around railroads. Some will listen when you try to teach how things are supposed to work and others won't. The ones that won't listen are in need of having their license revoked and be told to do something else for a living (for the public's long term benefit)...

Mudchicken[banghead][banghead][banghead]

[mudchicken]

Mikeygaw:

Nothing is truly abandoned until the Federal Government says so via the Surface Transportation Board ("STB", the old Interstate Commerce Commission/"ICC") - state laws take a backseat to federal rules and many state rules are unenforcible. If there is not an AB- or FD- docket with an attached decision out there, it most likely is NOT abandoned. There are multiple cases out there where a local entity declared a lined abandoned only to be overruled by the Feds.

To start, take a look at http://www.stb.dot.gov....toggle into the "Electronic Reading Room" , "publications" and "FAQ" areas and start reading. ... to see where states and local government misinterpret the law, use the STB search engine and type in "Lees Summit" and "Kent, Washington" for openers (there area at least a dozen similar related cases in recent history as well)

Dave H. hit the nail on the color of title issue in his last 6 sentences. There are far to many people out there with a warped or totally wrong view of what abandonment is. A large part of my job is involved in sorting out messes created by others who guessed (wrongly so) that a rail line was abandoned or had reverted. Between the screwed-up view of the railroads taught in schools in their history classes and "old wives tales" that get more bizarre in each succeeding generation, the general public is often clueless when the abandonment issue comes into play.

I deal with, almost daily, certain county officials, civil engineers, surveyors and landmen who should never be turned loose around railroads. Some will listen when you try to teach how things are supposed to work and others won't. The ones that won't listen are in need of having their license revoked and be told to do something else for a living (for the public's long term benefit)...

Mudchicken[banghead][banghead][banghead]

[dharmon]

So here's a question....how much does it cost to ship by rail, say vs truck? If I wanted to have a boxcar delivered to my plant in San Diego and pick up a load of ...I don't know..sun tan oil to go to Chicago..like they need it....what would it cost me. Do they charge by carload, weight, distance or a combination?

[dharmon]

So here's a question....how much does it cost to ship by rail, say vs truck? If I wanted to have a boxcar delivered to my plant in San Diego and pick up a load of ...I don't know..sun tan oil to go to Chicago..like they need it....what would it cost me. Do they charge by carload, weight, distance or a combination?

[northwesterner]

I'm not an expert on modern locomotives, so does a rebuild (an SD45 rebuilt as an SD40-2) look like the original model or the new one? More basically, are there external differences between the models? Or can you tell only by noting the engine # and checking out that RR's roster?

I see UPY #551 almost daily switching cars at the yard paralleling the JFK expressway in Chicago, and I found out that it was originally CNW #4406, with the bell on the nose of the short hood. As UPY #551, the bell is somewhere else, and it looks relatively new. So how extensive are rebuilds, generally?

[northwesterner]

I'm not an expert on modern locomotives, so does a rebuild (an SD45 rebuilt as an SD40-2) look like the original model or the new one? More basically, are there external differences between the models? Or can you tell only by noting the engine # and checking out that RR's roster?

I see UPY #551 almost daily switching cars at the yard paralleling the JFK expressway in Chicago, and I found out that it was originally CNW #4406, with the bell on the nose of the short hood. As UPY #551, the bell is somewhere else, and it looks relatively new. So how extensive are rebuilds, generally?

[rrnut282]

You're going to hate this, but the answer to the rebuilds question is, it depends. It depends on the amount of money the RR (bean counters) are willing to spend, what parts are available, if they are trying to fix a problem (like crankshafts prone to failure or electrical faults) or just want to get another milliion miles out of their investment. Most of the time a rebuilt unit looks like it came from the factory as most of the changes will be internal. Sometimes, like #551 you mention, the RR reconfigures the appliances on a merger unit to standardize on locations and parts to save maintanence money. Sometimes, like on GP10's (rebuilt GP9's) there are sizable bulges (newer style air filters) in different locations on the body to distinguish it.

To answer your other question, a SD45 rebuilt into a SD40-2 means the3600h.p. V20 prime mover has been replaced with a 3000h.p. V16. The electrical controls are also replaced to use as much of the -2 components as possible. Externally, there will be few clues that it is a rebuilt unit, unless they change fuel tanks or relocate air resevoirs, but there isn't any reason to do those things.

[rrnut282]

You're going to hate this, but the answer to the rebuilds question is, it depends. It depends on the amount of money the RR (bean counters) are willing to spend, what parts are available, if they are trying to fix a problem (like crankshafts prone to failure or electrical faults) or just want to get another milliion miles out of their investment. Most of the time a rebuilt unit looks like it came from the factory as most of the changes will be internal. Sometimes, like #551 you mention, the RR reconfigures the appliances on a merger unit to standardize on locations and parts to save maintanence money. Sometimes, like on GP10's (rebuilt GP9's) there are sizable bulges (newer style air filters) in different locations on the body to distinguish it.

To answer your other question, a SD45 rebuilt into a SD40-2 means the3600h.p. V20 prime mover has been replaced with a 3000h.p. V16. The electrical controls are also replaced to use as much of the -2 components as possible. Externally, there will be few clues that it is a rebuilt unit, unless they change fuel tanks or relocate air resevoirs, but there isn't any reason to do those things.

[northwesterner]

Thanks for your prompt reply, Mike.
One more: The rebuild from SD45 to SD40-2 entails putting in a lower h.p. diesel but updated -2 controls? Is that because the engine in question is being put into downgraded service?
I'm confused (but who isn't).

[northwesterner]

Thanks for your prompt reply, Mike.
One more: The rebuild from SD45 to SD40-2 entails putting in a lower h.p. diesel but updated -2 controls? Is that because the engine in question is being put into downgraded service?
I'm confused (but who isn't).

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by northwesterner

Thanks for your prompt reply, Mike.
One more: The rebuild from SD45 to SD40-2 entails putting in a lower h.p. diesel but updated -2 controls? Is that because the engine in question is being put into downgraded service?
I'm confused (but who isn't).

I would like to hear this one answered. [:p]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by northwesterner

Thanks for your prompt reply, Mike.
One more: The rebuild from SD45 to SD40-2 entails putting in a lower h.p. diesel but updated -2 controls? Is that because the engine in question is being put into downgraded service?
I'm confused (but who isn't).

I would like to hear this one answered. [:p]

[edblysard]

No, not downgraded at all, in fact, from some points of view, its a big up grade.
The 20 cyl diesel was prone to crankchaft whip and failure, the 16 cyl was pretty rock solid.
Keep in mind, 20 cyl vs 16 means four more cylinders worth of moving parts to maintain, and the 600 hp difference ended up not being worth the maintainance headaches nor the extra fuel consumption.
Also realize the parts inventory for the 16 cylinder was on hand, everybody had SD40s and SD40-2.
As for the electrical upgrade, it mostly consisted of replaceing a lot of relays with modular cards.
When something failed, you didnt have to test each relay one at a time to find the short, you could ask the simple on board fault code system what was wrong, then pull and replace that card for that subsystem.
Very much like the computer in you mid 80s automobile, it really isnt a computer, but a series of fault code chips and control modules.
When the rebuild was finished, you in essence had a brand new SD40, with all the new stuff on it, good for another million miles of service anywhere you would have used a SD40.
As for down graded service, would you invest that much time and money in a machine you didnt plan on using every chance you could?

Stay Frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

No, not downgraded at all, in fact, from some points of view, its a big up grade.
The 20 cyl diesel was prone to crankchaft whip and failure, the 16 cyl was pretty rock solid.
Keep in mind, 20 cyl vs 16 means four more cylinders worth of moving parts to maintain, and the 600 hp difference ended up not being worth the maintainance headaches nor the extra fuel consumption.
Also realize the parts inventory for the 16 cylinder was on hand, everybody had SD40s and SD40-2.
As for the electrical upgrade, it mostly consisted of replaceing a lot of relays with modular cards.
When something failed, you didnt have to test each relay one at a time to find the short, you could ask the simple on board fault code system what was wrong, then pull and replace that card for that subsystem.
Very much like the computer in you mid 80s automobile, it really isnt a computer, but a series of fault code chips and control modules.
When the rebuild was finished, you in essence had a brand new SD40, with all the new stuff on it, good for another million miles of service anywhere you would have used a SD40.
As for down graded service, would you invest that much time and money in a machine you didnt plan on using every chance you could?

Stay Frosty,
Ed

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Another issue of an apparent downgrade that's really an upgrade would be that of SD40's rebuilt to SD38-2's for hump and transfer service. Turbochargers are a high maintenance item so replacing them with a roots blower makes economic sense when the extra horsepower isn't needed for low-speed service.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Another issue of an apparent downgrade that's really an upgrade would be that of SD40's rebuilt to SD38-2's for hump and transfer service. Turbochargers are a high maintenance item so replacing them with a roots blower makes economic sense when the extra horsepower isn't needed for low-speed service.

[Anonymous]

Ok, a new slug question [}:)]

I was at a Rock Island web site and noticed they had two catagories of slugs. One was Road Slug, and the other was Yard Slug. I know that slugs would borrow power from another locomotive and the slug was useful in helping to start the train moving, at around 20 mph or so the slug would cut out as the power then was needed by the host loco. Is there a difference between yard slugs and road slugs. Are road slugs able to operate at a higher mph than yard slugs?

[Anonymous]

Ok, a new slug question [}:)]

I was at a Rock Island web site and noticed they had two catagories of slugs. One was Road Slug, and the other was Yard Slug. I know that slugs would borrow power from another locomotive and the slug was useful in helping to start the train moving, at around 20 mph or so the slug would cut out as the power then was needed by the host loco. Is there a difference between yard slugs and road slugs. Are road slugs able to operate at a higher mph than yard slugs?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I'm not sure that there is that much of a difference between road slugs and yard slugs since the tractive effort curve falls off at the same rate for either service and both are for extra tractive effort at low speeds.

The major difference that comes to mind might be that yard slugs usually have Type A trucks and road slugs would have Type B or other road trucks. Some slugs carry auxiliary fuel tanks (SP and others) and some have cabs (CSX & BNSF), either of which would be useful in road, yard or hump service.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I'm not sure that there is that much of a difference between road slugs and yard slugs since the tractive effort curve falls off at the same rate for either service and both are for extra tractive effort at low speeds.

The major difference that comes to mind might be that yard slugs usually have Type A trucks and road slugs would have Type B or other road trucks. Some slugs carry auxiliary fuel tanks (SP and others) and some have cabs (CSX & BNSF), either of which would be useful in road, yard or hump service.