Bad train pictures

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Position light signals were found primarily on PRR & N&W. They are generally all yellow and the arrangement of the lights roughly corresponds to that of a semaphore. You would have to check the Rules for Conducting Transportation to confirm specific aspects and indications.
As an indication of the variety of signals, an old Penn Central rule book shows multiple aspects for the same indication, such as four or five aspects which denote Stop and stay.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Position light signals were found primarily on PRR & N&W. They are generally all yellow and the arrangement of the lights roughly corresponds to that of a semaphore. You would have to check the Rules for Conducting Transportation to confirm specific aspects and indications.
As an indication of the variety of signals, an old Penn Central rule book shows multiple aspects for the same indication, such as four or five aspects which denote Stop and stay.

[northwesterner]

Last night I was stopped by a Northbound UP freight in Highland Park, IL. It was headed up by one of those new monster EMD units pulling a long (100+?) string of coal hoppers fast (50 mph?). I usually see 2 or 3 engines on these trains, so I was surprised to see only one. But at the end of the train was another big EMD unit short hood out, with its head light dimmed.
My questions are :
1. Was the rear unit a helper or just deadheading.
2. Is this train kept intact (like a push-pull commuter train)?
3. Is there somone aboard the rear engine, or is it controlled by the driver of the head unit?

Thanks for your help in advance.

[northwesterner]

Last night I was stopped by a Northbound UP freight in Highland Park, IL. It was headed up by one of those new monster EMD units pulling a long (100+?) string of coal hoppers fast (50 mph?). I usually see 2 or 3 engines on these trains, so I was surprised to see only one. But at the end of the train was another big EMD unit short hood out, with its head light dimmed.
My questions are :
1. Was the rear unit a helper or just deadheading.
2. Is this train kept intact (like a push-pull commuter train)?
3. Is there somone aboard the rear engine, or is it controlled by the driver of the head unit?

Thanks for your help in advance.

[zardoz]

Regarding the "D" or 'distant signal'.

On the CNW, we used a 'distant signal' to alert an engineer that they were approaching a fixed signal. This was used where a train was leaving dark territory and entering ABS territory.

The 'distant' signal was not wired in the block, nor did not offer any indication of track occupancy or condition. It was, to use Ed's term, an 'early warning' device. The main difference in the CNW signal was that it did not convey any information about the aspect of the signal it was protecting. The "D" signal always displayed a 'yellow' aspect, regardless of whether the ABS signal was Stop, Approach, or Clear.

[zardoz]

Regarding the "D" or 'distant signal'.

On the CNW, we used a 'distant signal' to alert an engineer that they were approaching a fixed signal. This was used where a train was leaving dark territory and entering ABS territory.

The 'distant' signal was not wired in the block, nor did not offer any indication of track occupancy or condition. It was, to use Ed's term, an 'early warning' device. The main difference in the CNW signal was that it did not convey any information about the aspect of the signal it was protecting. The "D" signal always displayed a 'yellow' aspect, regardless of whether the ABS signal was Stop, Approach, or Clear.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by northwesterner

Last night I was stopped by a Northbound UP freight in Highland Park, IL. It was headed up by one of those new monster EMD units pulling a long (100+?) string of coal hoppers fast (50 mph?). I usually see 2 or 3 engines on these trains, so I was surprised to see only one. But at the end of the train was another big EMD unit short hood out, with its head light dimmed.
My questions are :
1. Was the rear unit a helper or just deadheading.
2. Is this train kept intact (like a push-pull commuter train)?
3. Is there somone aboard the rear engine, or is it controlled by the driver of the head unit?

Thanks for your help in advance.

I get to answer a question - all by myself!!!!! I am so excited.....!!!!!!

Rear engine is a helper. BNSF has them all the time thru Lincoln. They work in conjunction with the head-end, but can be worked separately - it is up to the engineer. It is not like a push-pull, since they are independent engines - see last sentence.

No one is aboard the rear unit, altho, Mz Mookie has thought it would be really cool (probably frigid now) to be riding back there and watching her world go by!

Did I do ok, guys?

Mookie

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by northwesterner

Last night I was stopped by a Northbound UP freight in Highland Park, IL. It was headed up by one of those new monster EMD units pulling a long (100+?) string of coal hoppers fast (50 mph?). I usually see 2 or 3 engines on these trains, so I was surprised to see only one. But at the end of the train was another big EMD unit short hood out, with its head light dimmed.
My questions are :
1. Was the rear unit a helper or just deadheading.
2. Is this train kept intact (like a push-pull commuter train)?
3. Is there somone aboard the rear engine, or is it controlled by the driver of the head unit?

Thanks for your help in advance.

I get to answer a question - all by myself!!!!! I am so excited.....!!!!!!

Rear engine is a helper. BNSF has them all the time thru Lincoln. They work in conjunction with the head-end, but can be worked separately - it is up to the engineer. It is not like a push-pull, since they are independent engines - see last sentence.

No one is aboard the rear unit, altho, Mz Mookie has thought it would be really cool (probably frigid now) to be riding back there and watching her world go by!

Did I do ok, guys?

Mookie

[zardoz]

northwesterner-

The conditions at the destination determines whether either loco stays on. If the train was going to Pleasant Prairie, the power comes off the train and is stored at Bain Station Road pending the return trip. If the train was going to Sheboygan, I'm not sure. Usually the power comes off the loaded train and is used to haul the empties from the same location.

There is not normally anyone on the DP loco, and it is controlled by the engineer in the lead loco. The dim headlight is its 'official' marker.

[zardoz]

northwesterner-

The conditions at the destination determines whether either loco stays on. If the train was going to Pleasant Prairie, the power comes off the train and is stored at Bain Station Road pending the return trip. If the train was going to Sheboygan, I'm not sure. Usually the power comes off the loaded train and is used to haul the empties from the same location.

There is not normally anyone on the DP loco, and it is controlled by the engineer in the lead loco. The dim headlight is its 'official' marker.

[northwesterner]

I got a response from Mookie! I feel honored. Thanks for the info and you too, Zardoz.
BTW, is Zardoz pronounced like "No-Doze", or is it "Zar-Dots"? Just curious, since you are a regular.

CNW: route of the Kate Shelley 400.

[northwesterner]

I got a response from Mookie! I feel honored. Thanks for the info and you too, Zardoz.
BTW, is Zardoz pronounced like "No-Doze", or is it "Zar-Dots"? Just curious, since you are a regular.

CNW: route of the Kate Shelley 400.

[Mookie]

Oh Zardoz, tell him the derivation of your name - I just love that story! In the event he (Zardoz) doesn't catch this or forgets, remind me and I will give you the short version.

Mookie

[Mookie]

Oh Zardoz, tell him the derivation of your name - I just love that story! In the event he (Zardoz) doesn't catch this or forgets, remind me and I will give you the short version.

Mookie

[dehusman]

The rear unit is a Distributed Power locomotive, or DP unit. It is a helper that can be controlled from the lead unit. East-West coal trains operate 1x1 and North-south coal trains operate 2x1.

Dave H.

[dehusman]

The rear unit is a Distributed Power locomotive, or DP unit. It is a helper that can be controlled from the lead unit. East-West coal trains operate 1x1 and North-south coal trains operate 2x1.

Dave H.

[espeefoamer]

Nora and others. You were looking for a Pennsy nut to explain position light signals.There are three lights in a row,vertically,diagonaly,or horizantally.Think of this as a semiphore.lit vertically=proceed,diagonally=caution,horizonally=stop. GG1's Forever![8D][:D][:)][:p]

[espeefoamer]

Nora and others. You were looking for a Pennsy nut to explain position light signals.There are three lights in a row,vertically,diagonaly,or horizantally.Think of this as a semiphore.lit vertically=proceed,diagonally=caution,horizonally=stop. GG1's Forever![8D][:D][:)][:p]

[techguy57]

foamer- Thanks much for the position info. That makes a lot of sense! You Pennsy nuts sure have given me a lot of useful info![:D]

Keep'em rolling down the rails

techguy

[techguy57]

foamer- Thanks much for the position info. That makes a lot of sense! You Pennsy nuts sure have given me a lot of useful info![:D]

Keep'em rolling down the rails

techguy

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

The rear unit is a Distributed Power locomotive, or DP unit. It is a helper that can be controlled from the lead unit. East-West coal trains operate 1x1 and North-south coal trains operate 2x1.

Dave H.

psst - Dave...BNSF here - they operate our east-west ones with usually 2 on headend and none on rear and our south ones are usually 1x1....am I missing something?

Mookie

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

The rear unit is a Distributed Power locomotive, or DP unit. It is a helper that can be controlled from the lead unit. East-West coal trains operate 1x1 and North-south coal trains operate 2x1.

Dave H.

psst - Dave...BNSF here - they operate our east-west ones with usually 2 on headend and none on rear and our south ones are usually 1x1....am I missing something?

Mookie

[CShaveRR]

More on PRR position-light signals:

Nora mentioned that the horizontal (stop) aspect was two red lights on one signal, and three yellow ones on others in the yard. Red lights on a position-light signal mean that it's an absolute signal...stop and stay. Don't bother looking for a "D" sign; it won't be there. Three horizontal yellow lights are the most restrictive indication--usually Stop and Proceed--on a signal that isn't an absolute signal.

[CShaveRR]

More on PRR position-light signals:

Nora mentioned that the horizontal (stop) aspect was two red lights on one signal, and three yellow ones on others in the yard. Red lights on a position-light signal mean that it's an absolute signal...stop and stay. Don't bother looking for a "D" sign; it won't be there. Three horizontal yellow lights are the most restrictive indication--usually Stop and Proceed--on a signal that isn't an absolute signal.

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

Nora and others. You were looking for a Pennsy nut to explain position light signals.There are three lights in a row,vertically,diagonaly,or horizantally.Think of this as a semiphore.lit vertically=proceed,diagonally=caution,horizonally=stop. GG1's Forever![8D][:D][:)][:p]

If I remember my reading from some long ago article on signals correctly, there were three aspects of the position light signals that corresponded to semaphores, as discussed, but there was also a "reversed" diagonal that had a meaning all its own. Can't remember what it was, though.

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

Nora and others. You were looking for a Pennsy nut to explain position light signals.There are three lights in a row,vertically,diagonaly,or horizantally.Think of this as a semiphore.lit vertically=proceed,diagonally=caution,horizonally=stop. GG1's Forever![8D][:D][:)][:p]

If I remember my reading from some long ago article on signals correctly, there were three aspects of the position light signals that corresponded to semaphores, as discussed, but there was also a "reversed" diagonal that had a meaning all its own. Can't remember what it was, though.

[Anonymous]

I have a stupid question....

With electrified lines, are the overhead wires or the third rail always electrified or are they turned on as needed? I grew up on Long Island and one could very easily walk up to the third rail, but I never heard about kids getting hurt.

Thanks,
Tom

[Anonymous]

I have a stupid question....

With electrified lines, are the overhead wires or the third rail always electrified or are they turned on as needed? I grew up on Long Island and one could very easily walk up to the third rail, but I never heard about kids getting hurt.

Thanks,
Tom

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by talbanese

I have a stupid question....

With electrified lines, are the overhead wires or the third rail always electrified or are they turned on as needed? I grew up on Long Island and one could very easily walk up to the third rail, but I never heard about kids getting hurt.

Thanks,
Tom

To the best of my knowledge they are always hot. Third rails are "usually" enclosed so that the shoe is inside the cover as it's running along. Locos such as FL9s would run diesel into town and then switch to electric in the city underground and through the concrete canyons where public access is limited for safety reasons. There are usually a couple of third rail deaths every year, generally folks in subway tunnels...homeless folks, etc. Catenary lines such as the NEC or NJ Transit lines are generally harder to get to, but I remeber as a kid hearing a news story about some teenagers that were electrocuted messing around on top of some bauxcars. in NJ.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by talbanese

I have a stupid question....

With electrified lines, are the overhead wires or the third rail always electrified or are they turned on as needed? I grew up on Long Island and one could very easily walk up to the third rail, but I never heard about kids getting hurt.

Thanks,
Tom

To the best of my knowledge they are always hot. Third rails are "usually" enclosed so that the shoe is inside the cover as it's running along. Locos such as FL9s would run diesel into town and then switch to electric in the city underground and through the concrete canyons where public access is limited for safety reasons. There are usually a couple of third rail deaths every year, generally folks in subway tunnels...homeless folks, etc. Catenary lines such as the NEC or NJ Transit lines are generally harder to get to, but I remeber as a kid hearing a news story about some teenagers that were electrocuted messing around on top of some bauxcars. in NJ.