Hump vs flat switching

[kenneo]

When the SP was still a real railroad, we had a computer controlled hump at Eugene. We would put 3000 cars a day over the hump with 2 hump crews per shift and 5 trim jobs. Also had a "30 Yard" engine and a "40 Yard" engine each shift for a total of 9 jobs per shift. We would hump in cuts if the cars did not require weighing. Came the merger and the UP closed the yard - only interchange tracks for W&P and WOP shortlines now. Round house gone, hump graded into the bowl everything is gone except for 6 short tracks. Was a crew change point. Several thousand jobs now gone forever.

[kenneo]

When the SP was still a real railroad, we had a computer controlled hump at Eugene. We would put 3000 cars a day over the hump with 2 hump crews per shift and 5 trim jobs. Also had a "30 Yard" engine and a "40 Yard" engine each shift for a total of 9 jobs per shift. We would hump in cuts if the cars did not require weighing. Came the merger and the UP closed the yard - only interchange tracks for W&P and WOP shortlines now. Round house gone, hump graded into the bowl everything is gone except for 6 short tracks. Was a crew change point. Several thousand jobs now gone forever.

[Anonymous]

i know that you have to be careful when kicking cars . because you don't want to bust a knukcle or derail a car or two. but i love to hear those cars slam and blam in to each other. oh what a feeling!!!!

[Anonymous]

i know that you have to be careful when kicking cars . because you don't want to bust a knukcle or derail a car or two. but i love to hear those cars slam and blam in to each other. oh what a feeling!!!!

[Anonymous]

Hey There,

BNSF bans kicking cars? Wow! I tell you what, kicking cars is so much fun! Yeah, you heard me, it was fun! You get the right cut of cars and the right crew and you can switch fast! Now I know run-by switching was banned long ago. Run-by's are when you have a car coupled to the engine and the car is on the wrong end of the engine in comparison to the switch lead. You have a brakeman at the switch, a brakeman on the car, and the conductor at the pin on the locomotive. With no air on the car, you speed up, then when you get near the switch the engine slows for slack, pull pin, engine races ahead. When the engine clears the switch the brakeman throws it, the car goes into the siding and the brakeman on the car ties one on, to stop the car. Really exciting!

Most yards have topographical issues. Some flat switches are downhill, just requiring a pin to be pulled, others are uphill which requires the "kick". Richmond's Acca Yard is interesting. The North Yard, South End, pulls the pin. North Yard, North End pulls the pin. The South Yard, North End, kick the snot outta them! South Yard, South End, pull the pin and a lil' kick. Fulton Yard on the C&O just down a way was interesting too! The yard is a bowl. Kick a car in a track, kicked car comes rolling back. Many an old timer told the tale of a kicked cut rolling its way through the yard out onto the viaduct...Ah yes, those were the days!

I remember being at Clifton Forge, VA...uphill...trying to sleep in the bunk house... Engine...wub wub wub wub wub wub.....bamn! Wub wub wub wub wub....bamn! all night long! Like I said, kicking cars was a lot of fun! Too bad BNSF! Kickin' is an art!

[Anonymous]

Hey There,

BNSF bans kicking cars? Wow! I tell you what, kicking cars is so much fun! Yeah, you heard me, it was fun! You get the right cut of cars and the right crew and you can switch fast! Now I know run-by switching was banned long ago. Run-by's are when you have a car coupled to the engine and the car is on the wrong end of the engine in comparison to the switch lead. You have a brakeman at the switch, a brakeman on the car, and the conductor at the pin on the locomotive. With no air on the car, you speed up, then when you get near the switch the engine slows for slack, pull pin, engine races ahead. When the engine clears the switch the brakeman throws it, the car goes into the siding and the brakeman on the car ties one on, to stop the car. Really exciting!

Most yards have topographical issues. Some flat switches are downhill, just requiring a pin to be pulled, others are uphill which requires the "kick". Richmond's Acca Yard is interesting. The North Yard, South End, pulls the pin. North Yard, North End pulls the pin. The South Yard, North End, kick the snot outta them! South Yard, South End, pull the pin and a lil' kick. Fulton Yard on the C&O just down a way was interesting too! The yard is a bowl. Kick a car in a track, kicked car comes rolling back. Many an old timer told the tale of a kicked cut rolling its way through the yard out onto the viaduct...Ah yes, those were the days!

I remember being at Clifton Forge, VA...uphill...trying to sleep in the bunk house... Engine...wub wub wub wub wub wub.....bamn! Wub wub wub wub wub....bamn! all night long! Like I said, kicking cars was a lot of fun! Too bad BNSF! Kickin' is an art!

[Anonymous]

I've never seen a hump yard in action, but I have seen alot of kicking. I really like the sounds coming out of a yard when they are kicking cars.

[Anonymous]

I've never seen a hump yard in action, but I have seen alot of kicking. I really like the sounds coming out of a yard when they are kicking cars.

[Anonymous]

Hey all, I was on a little vacation camping with the kids just got back.

Thank you very much for the replies, I learned a great deal.

Jeff

[Anonymous]

Hey all, I was on a little vacation camping with the kids just got back.

Thank you very much for the replies, I learned a great deal.

Jeff

[Anonymous]

LoneStar cement in Oglesby Ill. has the same problem. They have switches set up so if a car gets away from them it runs into a big pile of sand.
TIM A

[Anonymous]

LoneStar cement in Oglesby Ill. has the same problem. They have switches set up so if a car gets away from them it runs into a big pile of sand.
TIM A

[Anonymous]

On the C&NW me never kicked cars at Mitchell yard in Milwaukee. All you had to do was uncouple them and they would transfer themselves to the CP all the way down in the Menomonee valley if you did not have cars with good hand brakes on the other end of the track. Not sure if we were doing flat switching or humping! :-)

[Anonymous]

On the C&NW me never kicked cars at Mitchell yard in Milwaukee. All you had to do was uncouple them and they would transfer themselves to the CP all the way down in the Menomonee valley if you did not have cars with good hand brakes on the other end of the track. Not sure if we were doing flat switching or humping! :-)

[jgfuller]

In the July 2003 issue of Trains, Pueblo is not listed as an active BNSF hump. Has it been re-instated? How does it fit into the general scheme? Switching north-south traffic? What blocks are made? Seems like either Pueblo or La Junta aren't on BNSF's main routes, where their other humps are.

[jgfuller]

In the July 2003 issue of Trains, Pueblo is not listed as an active BNSF hump. Has it been re-instated? How does it fit into the general scheme? Switching north-south traffic? What blocks are made? Seems like either Pueblo or La Junta aren't on BNSF's main routes, where their other humps are.

[edblysard]

Yes, Tim,
There is a safety factor involved. But, if everybody plays by the rules, and keeps a open line of communication, no problems.
The big difference is that in a hump yard, you have a swing crew that cleans out tracks when they are full, and blocks the cars into trains.
In a flat yard, the crew switching often is the same crew that swings the track, and makes up the outbound train. This allows me to stash certain cars that I know need to go on the front or rear of the train, then pick them up and place them in the train where needed when I swing the track. The versatility of flat switching allows more leeway in what we do, and how fast we do it.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

Yes, Tim,
There is a safety factor involved. But, if everybody plays by the rules, and keeps a open line of communication, no problems.
The big difference is that in a hump yard, you have a swing crew that cleans out tracks when they are full, and blocks the cars into trains.
In a flat yard, the crew switching often is the same crew that swings the track, and makes up the outbound train. This allows me to stash certain cars that I know need to go on the front or rear of the train, then pick them up and place them in the train where needed when I swing the track. The versatility of flat switching allows more leeway in what we do, and how fast we do it.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Call was placed to Proviso hump in Chicago. I lied, told a Assit. yard something I was in college doing a report on transportation. (Never tell them your a railfan.) Without getting into details he told me that yes, hump switching is cheaper but more time consuming and causes more damage to the cargo and the railcar. While flat switching is more expensive, you can get a yard cleaned out quicker. With flat switching you can move cars in blocks, in hump switching it is one feeder track one car at a time. He told me a three man crew consisting of 2 switchmen and one good kicker (I was told there is a art to kicking cars that seprates good engineers from bad engineers) can out swich any hump yard but there is a safty risk to flat switching.
TIM A

[Anonymous]

Call was placed to Proviso hump in Chicago. I lied, told a Assit. yard something I was in college doing a report on transportation. (Never tell them your a railfan.) Without getting into details he told me that yes, hump switching is cheaper but more time consuming and causes more damage to the cargo and the railcar. While flat switching is more expensive, you can get a yard cleaned out quicker. With flat switching you can move cars in blocks, in hump switching it is one feeder track one car at a time. He told me a three man crew consisting of 2 switchmen and one good kicker (I was told there is a art to kicking cars that seprates good engineers from bad engineers) can out swich any hump yard but there is a safty risk to flat switching.
TIM A

[mudchicken]

Backing up Ed:

ATSF/BNSF Example: Pueblo Hump frequently was outswitched by the flat yard at La Junta (60 miles east), much to managements consternation. Management wanted to close La Junta and Concentrate on Pueblo and threw all its money at Pueblo. A large part of the argument for Pueblo died with the BNSF merger (ATSF could no longer bill BN for services rendered at Pueblo)....BNSF still stubbornly tries to kill off La Junta in favor of Pueblo just to keep the once retired and now revived hump at Pueblo alive to justify wasted $$$ by management that is still around. Corrallary to the argument is built around the layout of the yard has everything to do with how efficient it is. Pueblo is shoehorned in to its location between the UP/DRGW yard and the city of Pueblo plus a state hospital. W.C. Field's cue stick is straighter. Pueblo has no room to expand, la Junta does. La Junta yard is simple and straight. Management is still obsessed with the hump yard even though it is more expensive and less efficient.

[mudchicken]

Backing up Ed:

ATSF/BNSF Example: Pueblo Hump frequently was outswitched by the flat yard at La Junta (60 miles east), much to managements consternation. Management wanted to close La Junta and Concentrate on Pueblo and threw all its money at Pueblo. A large part of the argument for Pueblo died with the BNSF merger (ATSF could no longer bill BN for services rendered at Pueblo)....BNSF still stubbornly tries to kill off La Junta in favor of Pueblo just to keep the once retired and now revived hump at Pueblo alive to justify wasted $$$ by management that is still around. Corrallary to the argument is built around the layout of the yard has everything to do with how efficient it is. Pueblo is shoehorned in to its location between the UP/DRGW yard and the city of Pueblo plus a state hospital. W.C. Field's cue stick is straighter. Pueblo has no room to expand, la Junta does. La Junta yard is simple and straight. Management is still obsessed with the hump yard even though it is more expensive and less efficient.

[edblysard]

Most likley it will be with Econorail, or a private industry, like the Dayton plastic storage yard.
Short of BNSF and UP, and us, of course, we dont keep tabs on who is or isnt hireing.
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by cabforward

ed,

saw an opening for a switchman in baytown.. r.r. not named.. do you take notice of crew openings around the houston area?

[edblysard]

Most likley it will be with Econorail, or a private industry, like the Dayton plastic storage yard.
Short of BNSF and UP, and us, of course, we dont keep tabs on who is or isnt hireing.
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by cabforward

ed,

saw an opening for a switchman in baytown.. r.r. not named.. do you take notice of crew openings around the houston area?

[wabash1]

Of course this was to be a slam at the ns. but i still believe we are the southern against the n&w . the N&W could not even attempt to match use southrn railway guys and after 13 years they had to admit it. so they went and got conrail people. and they still cant get it right. so now they want the bnsf. who take longer than the N&W guys to move 3 cars (problem how to get 1 red boxcar out from between 2 green ones with 8 empty tracks to work with) and get overtime trying.

[wabash1]

Of course this was to be a slam at the ns. but i still believe we are the southern against the n&w . the N&W could not even attempt to match use southrn railway guys and after 13 years they had to admit it. so they went and got conrail people. and they still cant get it right. so now they want the bnsf. who take longer than the N&W guys to move 3 cars (problem how to get 1 red boxcar out from between 2 green ones with 8 empty tracks to work with) and get overtime trying.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cabforward

there are no beans to spill.. you know what i remember.. i dont recall where i heard of it.. if it was here, someone will surely have seen it.. if it was elsewhere, who knows?

Ok , I'll spill it.......BNSF is about to consumate with the very femine NS,making BNSF the first true Trans-Con Railroad in American history..........

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cabforward

there are no beans to spill.. you know what i remember.. i dont recall where i heard of it.. if it was here, someone will surely have seen it.. if it was elsewhere, who knows?

Ok , I'll spill it.......BNSF is about to consumate with the very femine NS,making BNSF the first true Trans-Con Railroad in American history..........

[cabforward]

there are no beans to spill.. you know what i remember.. i dont recall where i heard of it.. if it was here, someone will surely have seen it.. if it was elsewhere, who knows?