Hump vs flat switching

[Anonymous]

Morning everyone,

With the power outage ongoing I understand CN (and others as well) have reduced or had to stop hump yard operations and go to flat switching to sort cuts in the major affected yards. How much longer does it take to operate this way and what kind of delays do you think will build up?

Hope you all have a cool and comfy day.

Jeff

[Anonymous]

Morning everyone,

With the power outage ongoing I understand CN (and others as well) have reduced or had to stop hump yard operations and go to flat switching to sort cuts in the major affected yards. How much longer does it take to operate this way and what kind of delays do you think will build up?

Hope you all have a cool and comfy day.

Jeff

[JoeKoh]

hump yards mostly use electricity for controling switches and retarders which slow the cars down once its placed in a siding.Flat switching requires an engine to be attached and crew people to hand throw switches for cars to go into a siding.A longer more difficult project.
stay safe
joe

[JoeKoh]

hump yards mostly use electricity for controling switches and retarders which slow the cars down once its placed in a siding.Flat switching requires an engine to be attached and crew people to hand throw switches for cars to go into a siding.A longer more difficult project.
stay safe
joe

[wabash1]

hump switching requires a engine also.

[wabash1]

hump switching requires a engine also.

[jgfuller]

Having worked at several major hump yards, I can say that a power outage that forces flat switching is a disaster. That's why most humps have backup power and backup computers. An outage of this magnitude would require some careful planning to avoid major constipation.

[jgfuller]

Having worked at several major hump yards, I can say that a power outage that forces flat switching is a disaster. That's why most humps have backup power and backup computers. An outage of this magnitude would require some careful planning to avoid major constipation.

[Anonymous]

No doubt its much more cost effective to hump switching, than flat switching

[Anonymous]

No doubt its much more cost effective to hump switching, than flat switching

[Anonymous]

I've never been to a hump yard, but I' ve seen in my videos and in what I've read railroad-
wise that hump switching is vastly superior to flat switching, and I've also both heard and read that making up trains takes a long longer when flat switching is or has to be used.

[Anonymous]

I've never been to a hump yard, but I' ve seen in my videos and in what I've read railroad-
wise that hump switching is vastly superior to flat switching, and I've also both heard and read that making up trains takes a long longer when flat switching is or has to be used.

[Rustyrex]

Also, it depends on what switching has to be done, for example, if switching with loads compared to empties can take longer, especially if using air rather than just the independent brake.
Plus railroads such as BNSF do not allow Kicking cars, so all joints must be made by pulling ahead, conductor/brakeman/switchman lining the switch, backing into the joint, letting air build before shoving back if needing more room(glad it's not winter!) or going down and manually tying some brakes on your first cuts of cars, pulling ahead and doing this all over again. Humping the cars will take far less time, believe me this is from experience.

--Rusty

[Rustyrex]

Also, it depends on what switching has to be done, for example, if switching with loads compared to empties can take longer, especially if using air rather than just the independent brake.
Plus railroads such as BNSF do not allow Kicking cars, so all joints must be made by pulling ahead, conductor/brakeman/switchman lining the switch, backing into the joint, letting air build before shoving back if needing more room(glad it's not winter!) or going down and manually tying some brakes on your first cuts of cars, pulling ahead and doing this all over again. Humping the cars will take far less time, believe me this is from experience.

--Rusty

[wabash1]

the bnsf dont alow kicking cars , ill be right back I need to go tell the yard crew they are switching against the rules by kicking the cars.

[wabash1]

the bnsf dont alow kicking cars , ill be right back I need to go tell the yard crew they are switching against the rules by kicking the cars.

[Anonymous]

I can't imagine the BNSF banning kicking cars on their railroad. It's a heck of a lot faster to switch cars by kicking than it is flat-switching. I work for the NS, which is probably the most rule-laden railroad in this country. You have to watch which way you hold your head when you blow your nose, or you'll be breaking a rule, and there's probably a trainmaster sitting in the bushes waiting to catch you do it. There are certain locations where kicking a car is banned, such as the end of certain yards which is at a higher elevation than the other end, or certain industrial yards where there have been repeated problems due to the type of car being kicked, but overall, kicking cars on the NS is a standard practice. I can't see the BNSF, or the UP or CSX for that matter, banning something that's been done for decades with no major problems. In fact, we are allowed to Kick cars that have "Do Not Hump" stensiled on them. Explain that one.

[Anonymous]

I can't imagine the BNSF banning kicking cars on their railroad. It's a heck of a lot faster to switch cars by kicking than it is flat-switching. I work for the NS, which is probably the most rule-laden railroad in this country. You have to watch which way you hold your head when you blow your nose, or you'll be breaking a rule, and there's probably a trainmaster sitting in the bushes waiting to catch you do it. There are certain locations where kicking a car is banned, such as the end of certain yards which is at a higher elevation than the other end, or certain industrial yards where there have been repeated problems due to the type of car being kicked, but overall, kicking cars on the NS is a standard practice. I can't see the BNSF, or the UP or CSX for that matter, banning something that's been done for decades with no major problems. In fact, we are allowed to Kick cars that have "Do Not Hump" stensiled on them. Explain that one.

[Anonymous]

The only restrictions to kicking cars on the BNSF I know of is some dangerous cars and loaded auto racks.

[Anonymous]

The only restrictions to kicking cars on the BNSF I know of is some dangerous cars and loaded auto racks.

[Anonymous]

I've been on the B&O for 35 years. As a Cond.,and as Engr., for 34, and I can tell you that with a good crew, we can outpreform ANY HUMP JOB, in a given time frame. Proven fact !!
CHGOMRBILL

[Anonymous]

I've been on the B&O for 35 years. As a Cond.,and as Engr., for 34, and I can tell you that with a good crew, we can outpreform ANY HUMP JOB, in a given time frame. Proven fact !!
CHGOMRBILL

[Anonymous]

PFRENCH68 ... is correct, we on BNSF have restrictions on hazardous cars & auto racks( If you make too hard of a joint , the airbags deploy on some car models) Flat switching is time consuming compared to a Hump engine at a steady 2 to 2.5 MPH.,plus the Fuel savings of a steady speed . Kicking requires the engineer to build speed quickly to give the car a "good kick",only to stop again,pull up,allow a switch to be thrown,then do it all over again. At 4 gallons per hour just to IDLE,you can imagine the fuel wasted kicking cars..Hope this helps.........SLINGBLADE....here in Memphis,we do an interchange with NS,sometimes have to use NS engines on the return trip to the yard...You guys need to be paid MORE for putting up with those terrible seats , even in the Dash - 9's.........Boom Boom,Fuller & Toot,you guy are right on the money... CHGOMRBILL......You sir , are correct about the good crew out performing a hump yard,but today, with Trainmasters sniffing the wind to see if you farted,it's not like it was 10 or 20 years ago when they let you do your work and left you alone........

[Anonymous]

PFRENCH68 ... is correct, we on BNSF have restrictions on hazardous cars & auto racks( If you make too hard of a joint , the airbags deploy on some car models) Flat switching is time consuming compared to a Hump engine at a steady 2 to 2.5 MPH.,plus the Fuel savings of a steady speed . Kicking requires the engineer to build speed quickly to give the car a "good kick",only to stop again,pull up,allow a switch to be thrown,then do it all over again. At 4 gallons per hour just to IDLE,you can imagine the fuel wasted kicking cars..Hope this helps.........SLINGBLADE....here in Memphis,we do an interchange with NS,sometimes have to use NS engines on the return trip to the yard...You guys need to be paid MORE for putting up with those terrible seats , even in the Dash - 9's.........Boom Boom,Fuller & Toot,you guy are right on the money... CHGOMRBILL......You sir , are correct about the good crew out performing a hump yard,but today, with Trainmasters sniffing the wind to see if you farted,it's not like it was 10 or 20 years ago when they let you do your work and left you alone........

[edblysard]

You go get em, buddy!
I work for the PTRA, Port Terminal Railroad Assocation, in Houston , Texas.
We service the Houston ship channel and the petro chemical plants in Pasadena and Deer Park.
I am a foreman for a yard crew, and with my helper and a good hogger, we can out switch any hump yard around,
We routinly switch 250 to 300 cars per 8 hours shift, that includes bringing the cars out of the recieving yard, switching or classifing them, then blocking them and swinging the cuts over to the outbound yard, and spotting them for ground air. We have three crews on duty per shift.
If, like a hump yard, we had crews who only swung the track, and set bumpers for us, we could do even better.
On average, we move 3000 cars per day through our North Yard.
Per shift, we build 5 to 6 out bound trains for our member lins, BNSF and UP, and one per day for the TexMex, along with our trains out to the customers we service, about 10 per shift.
The only cars we dont kick are auto racks, cyanide cars, pipe gons loaded above the ends, and high wide shiftable loads like equipment, tractors, turbines, loaded flats with no bulkheads...and of course, the occasional caboose that come through.
A good switch crew is worth every penny paid in salary.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by chgomrbill

I've been on the B&O for 35 years. As a Cond.,and as Engr., for 34, and I can tell you that with a good crew, we can outpreform ANY HUMP JOB, in a given time frame. Proven fact !!
CHGOMRBILL

[edblysard]

You go get em, buddy!
I work for the PTRA, Port Terminal Railroad Assocation, in Houston , Texas.
We service the Houston ship channel and the petro chemical plants in Pasadena and Deer Park.
I am a foreman for a yard crew, and with my helper and a good hogger, we can out switch any hump yard around,
We routinly switch 250 to 300 cars per 8 hours shift, that includes bringing the cars out of the recieving yard, switching or classifing them, then blocking them and swinging the cuts over to the outbound yard, and spotting them for ground air. We have three crews on duty per shift.
If, like a hump yard, we had crews who only swung the track, and set bumpers for us, we could do even better.
On average, we move 3000 cars per day through our North Yard.
Per shift, we build 5 to 6 out bound trains for our member lins, BNSF and UP, and one per day for the TexMex, along with our trains out to the customers we service, about 10 per shift.
The only cars we dont kick are auto racks, cyanide cars, pipe gons loaded above the ends, and high wide shiftable loads like equipment, tractors, turbines, loaded flats with no bulkheads...and of course, the occasional caboose that come through.
A good switch crew is worth every penny paid in salary.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by chgomrbill

I've been on the B&O for 35 years. As a Cond.,and as Engr., for 34, and I can tell you that with a good crew, we can outpreform ANY HUMP JOB, in a given time frame. Proven fact !!
CHGOMRBILL

[cabforward]

ed,

saw an opening for a switchman in baytown.. r.r. not named.. do you take notice of crew openings around the houston area?

[cabforward]

ed,

saw an opening for a switchman in baytown.. r.r. not named.. do you take notice of crew openings around the houston area?

[cabforward]

read an article about ns.. it said they were phasing out humping.. they had found a new way of handling the chore.. dont recall the name of it.. some name that means nothing to anyone unfamiliar w/ ns.. something like thoroughbred express..

anybody heard this before?

[cabforward]

read an article about ns.. it said they were phasing out humping.. they had found a new way of handling the chore.. dont recall the name of it.. some name that means nothing to anyone unfamiliar w/ ns.. something like thoroughbred express..

anybody heard this before?