----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.
QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz If WE Energies wins the settlement, I'm sure they'll pass along the savings to their customers. For my second joke......
QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo The failure to deliver the contracted volume is at issue. ... A smart move (both business and "moral") would have been for the UP to arrange with WE to obtain replacement coal with the UP paying any excess in costs. ... If you can not comply with the terms of your contract, you need to arrange with the other party an alternate. To let it just go on ... ... people just get angry when you do that.
QUOTE: Originally posted by solzrules Will this really matter in the end? LEt's face it. The PRB needs another rail line. IF there were three railroads in there instead of two, maybe little tiffs like this would go away. (DME delivers to CP Rail delivers to both powerhouses). Suddenly UP goes from trying to cover costs in an unorthodox manner to trying to lure business away from CP Rail. I don't think they will be able to do that if they use the tactic of breaching contracts with WE Energies. To sum it all up - we need more competition.
QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz QUOTE: Originally posted by solzrules Will this really matter in the end? LEt's face it. The PRB needs another rail line. IF there were three railroads in there instead of two, maybe little tiffs like this would go away. (DME delivers to CP Rail delivers to both powerhouses). Suddenly UP goes from trying to cover costs in an unorthodox manner to trying to lure business away from CP Rail. I don't think they will be able to do that if they use the tactic of breaching contracts with WE Energies. To sum it all up - we need more competition. Interesting that you used CP as an example, because in addition to it's UP connection, the Wisconsin Energies (WE) power plant at Pleasant Prairie has access to the CP main as well. I wonder why WE Energies did not try to bring in coal (that they bought during UP's service failures) via the CP instead of by truck?
QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz QUOTE: Originally posted by solzrules Will this really matter in the end? LEt's face it. The PRB needs another rail line. IF there were three railroads in there instead of two, maybe little tiffs like this would go away. (DME delivers to CP Rail delivers to both powerhouses). Suddenly UP goes from trying to cover costs in an unorthodox manner to trying to lure business away from CP Rail. I don't think they will be able to do that if they use the tactic of breaching contracts with WE Energies. To sum it all up - we need more competition. Interesting that you used CP as an example, because in addition to it's UP connection, the Wisconsin Energies (WE) power plant at Pleasant Prairie has access to the CP main as well. I wonder why WE Energies did not try to bring in coal (that they bought during UP's service failures) via the CP instead of by truck? They did. "We limited the generating capability of these units in offpeak periods and purchased more expensive replacement power and, where possible, took measures to purchase and transport higher cost coal in place of contracted supplies...". CP was indeed part of that process. Why would you assume it wasn't? Michael Sol
QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz I live only about 1 mile from the Pleasant Prairie power plant, railfan around here quite a bit, and have NEVER seen or heard any coal cars arrive via CP. The connection rail between the CP tracks and the power plant tracks remains as rusty as ever. In addition, my nephew is a driver for the trucking company that hauled the coal from Jones Island in Milwaukee to the power plant in Pleasant Prairie.
QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz QUOTE: Originally posted by solzrules Will this really matter in the end? LEt's face it. The PRB needs another rail line. IF there were three railroads in there instead of two, maybe little tiffs like this would go away. (DME delivers to CP Rail delivers to both powerhouses). Suddenly UP goes from trying to cover costs in an unorthodox manner to trying to lure business away from CP Rail. I don't think they will be able to do that if they use the tactic of breaching contracts with WE Energies. To sum it all up - we need more competition. Interesting that you used CP as an example, because in addition to it's UP connection, the Wisconsin Energies (WE) power plant at Pleasant Prairie has access to the CP main as well. I wonder why WE Energies did not try to bring in coal (that they bought during UP's service failures) via the CP instead of by truck? They did. "We limited the generating capability of these units in offpeak periods and purchased more expensive replacement power and, where possible, took measures to purchase and transport higher cost coal in place of contracted supplies...". CP was indeed part of that process. Why would you assume it wasn't? Michael Sol I live only about 1 mile from the Pleasant Prairie power plant, railfan around here quite a bit, and have NEVER seen or heard any coal cars arrive via CP. The connection rail between the CP tracks and the power plant tracks remains as rusty as ever. In addition, my nephew is a driver for the trucking company that hauled the coal from Jones Island in Milwaukee to the power plant in Pleasant Prairie.
QUOTE: Originally posted by solzrules Let me phrase it this way. Any coal that CP Rail would receive (wether it happend or not) would be from the UP, right?
QUOTE: I don't see how CP Rail delivering coal would alleviate the problems since the problem seems to be in the PRB which is only served by two railroads. If CP Rail was receiving coal from a different source to deliver to the power plants, this would make sense. They are plugging the gaps in the PRB coal by receiving coal from a different area of the country. However, this would be questionable because coal furnaces in power plants are set up to receive a specific type of coal because they burn it a specific way.
QUOTE: This goes back to my original point. If there was a third railroad in the PRB like the DME - with it's own infastructure and operations, (I realize that the mine trackage is under joint ownership or something like that) they would be less susceptible to maintenance failures and so on. DME could hand off trains to CP Rail at Winona, MN. CP could forward all trains to points east. Or west. I think the DME interchanges with the UP at Rochester, but it seems to me they are kind of hostile to each other. I may be wrong. UP and BNSF would not have a stranglehold on the coal rates and the cost of transporting coal would be cheaper through increased competition. Sounds like a great idea, no?
QUOTE: QUOTE: I don't see how CP Rail delivering coal would alleviate the problems since the problem seems to be in the PRB which is only served by two railroads. If CP Rail was receiving coal from a different source to deliver to the power plants, this would make sense. They are plugging the gaps in the PRB coal by receiving coal from a different area of the country. However, this would be questionable because coal furnaces in power plants are set up to receive a specific type of coal because they burn it a specific way. Well, if they could barge it in, why can't they rail it in? Where was the barge coal coming from?
QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Well, the PRB debacle underscores the lack of redundancy that has evolved in the US Rail System over the last 20 years. Lack of redundancy imposes a high risk premium on critical systems of any type. From that angle alone, the DME makes sense.
QUOTE: Originally posted by solzrules QUOTE: QUOTE: I don't see how CP Rail delivering coal would alleviate the problems since the problem seems to be in the PRB which is only served by two railroads. If CP Rail was receiving coal from a different source to deliver to the power plants, this would make sense. They are plugging the gaps in the PRB coal by receiving coal from a different area of the country. However, this would be questionable because coal furnaces in power plants are set up to receive a specific type of coal because they burn it a specific way. Well, if they could barge it in, why can't they rail it in? Where was the barge coal coming from? My point was that CP Rail would be receiving the coal from the UP. The same UP that was having trouble delivering coal in the first place. What point would it have made for the utility to take coal from CP Rail, since they would most likely be getting it from the UP and still subject to the same supply interruptions. In that scenario, a barge makes perfect sense, if the type of coal that the power plant needs CAN be loaded onto a barge. I am assuming several things. 1.) The barge is loaded with coal from the south eastern United States and 2.) The power plant's furnaces can accept a coal with higher sulfur content. I seem to think that the coal from SE US is of a higher sulfur content and therefore not compatible with power plants that burn low sulfur coal. Otherwise why the interruption? Pleasant Prairie could just buy coal from Appalachia and ship it on the NS.
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