Bird's eye view of Rockville Bridge near Harrisburg Pa....

[Modelcar]

Russ....So much to check out...More later. You have sent a bundle. Thanks for 10-20.

[southpennrailroad]

I added this one map as it it the continueation map oftheColeman branch. Also the map holds the FLIGHT 93 crash site as well. My phone number is listed on my web page if you care to get in touch with me. I would like very much to meet with you.

http://historical.maptech.com/getImage.cfm?fname=smrs15se.jpg&state=PA

[southpennrailroad]

Check the up date in te previous post. They are the four maps that make up the 1915 quad of the Ligionier to Somerset PW&S grade through Linn Runn State Park to Somerset. Also your intrest B&O. I recommend down loading these and getting them made into 11x17andtaping them togeter. I haveonly a very min. diffrence. Worth the work.

[Modelcar]

That Boswell Branch really did some winding around to get from Somerset to Harrison, Acosta, Jenners I and II, Ferrelltown, Boswell, Ralphtown and then on to Friedens...it made a complete loop if one simply came back to Somerset from Friedens on the S&C....{B&O}.

I remember you said earlier you simply dealt with the South Penn....and that is a tough job in itself, for sure.

But as you said, the three were tied together there in the broad Somerset area....meaning the PW&S, South Penn and of course the B&O branches....

If you are in the area one month from now...I'll be roaming around in a white ES300 Lexus...Who knows the paths might cross.

I must check out the Shanksville Branch off the S&C over at Coleman....Located a bit south of Friedens. it takes off the S&C there and runs about 5 or 7 miles to Shanksville. It's being reactivated to haul coal out of that area again. Hasn't been active in years and needed refurbished to make it useable again.

[southpennrailroad]

I have to admit that I know almost nothing about the B&O branches. I focus on the South Penn only and only mention slightly the crossings of any the South Penn meets. Such as the Geiger site and this area. Wait a miniute. I do recall Kenny Sheffeld telling me that at the shrp curve was a fill just to the east of this B&O branch. That dirt is gone and he said it was used in this fill that use to be an iron bridge. I also recall that tracks were still on top the B&O grade just to the north of this site and was at the time I was just getting into the discovery of the South Penn that the tracks were being removed. That took place in 1996 as that is when I started out on this monster discovery.

I know of a good map that shows these branches are found on this server. I know the answer will be found here foryou to view. Enjoy All the tools needed to explore are on here.

http://historical.maptech.com/

I live in Plum Boro just a very short piece north of the Pittsburhg Turnpike interchange (Exit 57) and less then 14 miles from the South Pennsylvania Railroad right of way as it was to pass through Allegheny County. Also 35 minutes from any actual South Penn work mainly at Donegal (exit 91)

Have you ever seen any of the railroad grade in the area just east of Donegal to the Laurel Hill Mountain on the west slope of the Laurel Hill Mountain?

You must check this out

http://historical.maptech.com/getImage.cfm?fname=smrs15nw.jpg&state=PA

http://historical.maptech.com/getImage.cfm?fname=smrs15ne.jpg&state=PA

http://historical.maptech.com/getImage.cfm?fname=smrs15sw.jpg&state=PA

http://historical.maptech.com/getImage.cfm?fname=smrs15se.jpg&state=PA

[Modelcar]

....Well Russ, you've been there and just today...! Yes, that's the Edi area I mentioned in above post. I wonder where in the world they found all the dirt to fill in that gap. That is a deep cut....and a long one too. It was a bit eerie driving over that old iron through truss bridge that was there before it was filled in. I do have two pic's just like yours above here but still with the rails in place...Not sure when I did that...maybe 25 or more years ago....What a shame a hard to come by route such as this rail route had to be destroyed....Hundreds of thousands of tons of coal came through that cut.
Russ, I must have seen the SP back in there and just don't recall right now because I knew it came through there after crossing the "old" Rt. 219 a bit farther north and the Wal-Mart area....Interesting stuff. I hope there are some other folks on here that can picture in their mind just where some of this stuff is we're talking about. For the regonal rail fan it should be really great. I know I sure was always fascinated by it all...And then when the Turnpike came along and stirred it all up brought it to life again....
I'm wondering just where your home base is Russ....after looking at your current pic's you've been posting...

That's an interesting location of transition there of the PW&S former route, etc....
Do you have any data as I mentioned before that shows the PW&S did use the Somerset depot of the B&O...? Have never read of a PW&S building in Somerset.
I think I mentioned on here before in another discussion the Boswell Branch {in your photos}, had some passenger trains on it and some went all the way to Friedens...There it is a mystery to me.....Did any simply go to Somerset on the S&C from there or was the train turned and headed back the Boswell direction, etc....There was a "Y" there right behind the IXL Creamery in Friedens and just a couple hundred ft. south of the Friedens depot and they had the track facilities to reverse the train.

[southpennrailroad]

The Pittsburhg Westmoreland & Somerset Railroad came out of the Forbes State Forest from the town of Ligionier. They merged onto this section of Vanderbilt's abandoned/idle/incompleted South Pennsylvania Railroad, to continue their line runing to Somerset and some of the sections seen in the previous photos.

The road I am standing on was part of the PW&S as it is curving east (left) preparing to merge onto the South Penn abandoned grade seen at the lower level left from where I am shooting to. Not seen in this shot , to the right is the Gastiger cut. A very deep unfinished cut work site that is about three stories high with some very rough cliff sides.

[southpennrailroad]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....And broke away from it most likely to reduce some of the curvature in the Turnpike design....They were provided this ability perhaps by the design max. gradient of 3% where the original RR surveyors were designing to a max of 2% grade.
Russ....I may never have been back on that very Legislative Rt. in your above 1st pic....I have been back on the county Rd. that comes across in the Edi area and where the 90 plus ft. deep cut of the former Boswell Branch cut through...Used to be a one lane bridge across it....I stopped there years ago and walked back to the bridge and took pic's down into that massive cut....Even the rails were still there yet. Oh, what rail history we have in that general area. If I only would have started to explore more at a younger age.....And as you may know, that cut has been filled in now and the bridge removed....Stopped a few years ago and looked at it again....

Photo top is the same area at Red Goose Road facing north away from Somerset towards the B&O Horse Shoe Curve, Secod photo is looking south and the South Penn would be crossing just in front of you. This railroad you see here at the bottom of this ravine didn't exist during the South Penn era. This dirt was dug out by the B&O and the South Penn would be at my level going from east left to west right in the second photo. This means had the South Penn existed and the B&O decided to build this visible line, the B&O would have needed to pay for the tressle to let the South Penn continue to operate above its line. In the Bedford Narrows, the same would have been for the South Penn and the Bridgeport and Bedford of the Pennsy line. The South Penn was to pass beneath the B&B line just as it crossed the Juniata River east of Bedford and slightly west of Everett.



Take this as a early railroad fix before you get here next month

[southpennrailroad]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cr6479

The tracks going to the left does that go to the former conrail yard

Negative. That grade went to Ligionier and was only operating between 1906-1916. This is the well known abandoned South Pennsylvania Railroad.

[cr6479]

The tracks going to the left does that go to the former conrail yard

[Modelcar]

....And broke away from it most likely to reduce some of the curvature in the Turnpike design....They were provided this ability perhaps by the design max. gradient of 3% where the original RR surveyors were designing to a max of 2% grade.
Russ....I may never have been back on that very Legislative Rt. in your above 1st pic....I have been back on the county Rd. that comes across in the Edi area and where the 90 plus ft. deep cut of the former Boswell Branch cut through...Used to be a one lane bridge across it....I stopped there years ago and walked back to the bridge and took pic's down into that massive cut....Even the rails were still there yet. Oh, what rail history we have in that general area. If I only would have started to explore more at a younger age.....And as you may know, that cut has been filled in now and the bridge removed....Stopped a few years ago and looked at it again....

[southpennrailroad]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cr6479

It look's like former conrail line i think it is? In the background the tracks spite to the left and right. If you go left will the track go into Washington DC?

If your looking at the above photo, It is an inactive line now but the history of this line was it was begun by Vanderbilt in 1881-1885 and half completed then abandoned. A few years later it was reactivated by a former logging railroad and used for ten years (abandoned 1916) only to be once more abandoned until 1938 when the Pennsylvania Turnpike bought it. Only they never used most of what they purchased. That is what this section is showing how the turnpike broke away from it.

[southpennrailroad]

When I had my PC up and runing I had bookmarked that web page on which you posted that Horse Shoe Curve B&O grade. I myself had supplied a shot from Microsoft terraserver showing some seen SouthPenn grade at the Fort Littleton area.

That first shot is on Red Goose Road between Husband and Walmart which is highway 601/219. This view is looking west towards Husband. Somerset railroad bypass.

[Modelcar]

Good shots Russ....and just today...! I recognize the position of the 2nd pic but not sure about the 1st one....I may have been there in years past....Not sure. Have not lived in the area for 44 years. Memory fades a bit....
Wondering about the PW&S grade near the toll both....and as you noted it crosses over in an easternly direction, down behind McDonalds...etc....Years ago {when the Turnpike was first opened}, there was tourist cabins in that area and eventually they were connected together and then later yet, a 2nd story added and it become a large 2 story motel...Believe it was called Zimmermans...ROW must have been located behind {north west}, of it.....That was way before any entry or exit was available on that Turnpike ramp beyond the toll boths.....
Wi***hat Boswell Branch could have survived and become a tourist run say over to Boswell and return....Some very different and rare type location to that route. Over beyond Friedens by roughly 2 miles north the track crossed the county road and wound out in a large field and circled back 180 degrees and crossed the same road just a couple hundred feet beyond first crossing to gain maybe....20 ft. in ele. or so....That can be seen as I mentioned re: the 4 horseshoe curves...in previous post and as viewed from TerraServer.

[cr6479]

It look's like former conrail line i think it is? In the background the tracks spite to the left and right. If you go left will the track go into Washington DC?

[southpennrailroad]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/ReamsSawMillGradeA.jpg

At exactly the 105.5 mile post is this South Penn / PW&S Grade (NO NOT THE TURNPIKE, look into the field above the pike at the 3:00 position to center of picture) breaking away from the turnpike once more and beginning its climb up the east slope of the Laurel Hill Mountain. By the time the turnpike gets back to and alongside the railroad grade again the grade is found inside the woods at exactly the 103.0 mile post west of this site and about 50 feet higher then the turnpike road surface. The building in the distance is the Reams Lumber mill and that property is still in the Reams family which owned the property at least since the survey of the 1881-1885 South Penn railroad era.

[southpennrailroad]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

...Looks like you're still in my old stompin' grounds Russ.....Everything goes as planned, we'll be there one month from today.
I wonder if the PW&S RR used the brick passenger depot...{not sure when it was built}, that used to serve the S&C branch there in Somerset....? It was located roughly 3/4 mile beyond {south}, the mill we've been mentioning here...Too bad I wasn't up on these subjects back as a child as my mother rode on the PW&S from Somerset to Ligonier and return more than once.

I have heard of some families mentioning the stories. Its to bad we could not live in both time periods. But I always come back to the fact that if I had no computer it would be to expensive to log all the material I have amassed. Here's another South Penn abandoned grade on Red Goose Road. A little to the west of the sharp railroad built highway curve. You were aware the railroad built that S curve wern't you?



http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/RedGooseRoadGade.jpg

Look just inside the tree line.This is just east of the B&O Boswell Branch

[Modelcar]

...Looks like you're still in my old stompin' grounds Russ.....Everything goes as planned, we'll be there one month from today.
I wonder if the PW&S RR used the brick passenger depot...{not sure when it was built}, that used to serve the S&C branch there in Somerset....? It was located roughly 3/4 mile beyond {south}, the mill we've been mentioning here...Too bad I wasn't up on these subjects back as a child as my mother rode on the PW&S from Somerset to Ligonier and return more than once.

[southpennrailroad]

Thanks Brian

I'm glad people are appreciating the research I have done. Its been buried for 120 years and now I hope to get it all out to the interested. At least here people are open to it.

I have a great shot of the turnpike and the abandoned South Penn merging at milepost 108.0 . Look at the truck compared to the grade just in the foreground across the center of the photo. This is on a curve on the northside or west bound side of the pike just west of Somerset.This is also where the PW&S breaks off the acquired South Penn Railroad's Somerset bypss alignment.

Notice the embedded date



http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/PollitNewPicGrade.jpg

[Modelcar]

....And thanks Brian {IA}

[blhanel]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

Dave....I too am thinking maybe we should not be posting so much on a RR project that's different from your original subject....Say the word and I'll back away....I must confess the SP RR is a fascinating subject to me.

Bear in mind too,that there are a fair amount of people reading this thread who know nothing of the area, yet find the topic interesting nonetheless.[:D]

[#ditto]

[Modelcar]

....Russ from what you have shown in the Somerset area I can see you really have spent some time digging around to what's available there...Yes, I'm aware of the grade coming around from it's big sweeping crurve as it had exited from where it crossed Rt. 281 near Geiger. Then crosses the "new" 219 Rt....and then heads for the area you speak of...{The Wal-Mart location}. Then crosses {old 219}, believe you mentioned it's now tagged 601 and heads {in a cut}, towards Edi {small village}, and then heads to tackle the grade towards Laurel Hill.

Russ...I realize you are recording only the one railroad {SP}, but there are other interesting features of another in that very area....Just about 5 miles or less north and maybe a bit east of the Wal-Mart location we can find a location of abandoned rail route from the Boswell Branch of the former B&O. The B&O {Somerset & Cambria} branch.
Coincidentally...right below your entry over on the web site {Railwaystation.com} and your entry of "Ft. Littletown, Pa"....I have an entry...Look for Friedens, Pa....and it relates of an aerial view of such branch just northwest of Friedens as viewed from TerraServer.

That branch, at that location has connected....end to end practically....4 horseshoe curves as it makes it's way from Friedens to Ralphton...a former small coal mining town.....Of course that route continues to swing around the area and makes it's way through several mining towns and eventually back to Somerset and enters right along side the Turnpike...and connects to the S&C right before it passes under the Turnpike and of course past the feed mill you mentioned in an earlier post. Those 4 horseshoe curves are really easy to see and rather easy to get to on the ground. The Friedens part of that branch that locates the 4 horseshoe curves, was abandoned roughly 60 years ago.

[southpennrailroad]

When you go on your ten mile trip north of Somerset, give a few min and stop at the back parking lot of the new Walmart loction to look see this section of South Penn grade at the very back south east corner of their parking lot. Under that grade is a stone arch culvert built there. Walmart is on the right utop the hill. Easy to get down here.



http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/kennyb.jpg

[Modelcar]

....I followed all of that....Will take a closer look when I'm there. Have eaten at Eat and Park many times.....Home town is 10 miles north of there but we make our "home" there at the hotel when in the area....Family mostly gone.

[Modelcar]

....Must sign for a while Russ...Thanks for sharing pic's and info of maps and photos....Enjoyed.

[southpennrailroad]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

Awesome stuff Russ.....You're so right, I can easily see the grade in your pic there at the entry to the toll both....{Our Hamton Inn is just out of the right side of your pic....

Well like I do, if the wife sleeps in late you can take a walk out of the room and do a little exploring and collect some PW&S photo shots. It also crossed the outside tollbooths to cross into the weed zone opposite your hotel to the south parking lot of McDonalds to the south side of Windy's and then the parking lot of E&Park t and crossing of the creek just east of E&P to the Jenny globe site. It did make connection to the B&O line just to the feed mill located on 281.

Did I mention at all tht the now bike trail from Conellsville to Confluence was pre-surveyed by the South Penn Railroad or what was Western Maryland trough the Youghiogheny valley from Confluence to Connellsville via Ohio Pyle. I have those maps as well and a few South Penn correspondance letters.

[Modelcar]

Awesome stuff Russ.....You're so right, I can easily see the grade in your pic there at the entry to the toll both....{Our Hamton Inn is just out of the right side of your pic....

[southpennrailroad]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....That's a great pic of the east portal of Quemahoning.

They just did a lot of renovation work there at Somerset Interchange....but I'll try to locate the PW&S near the toll both....Hope they didn't disturb that exact area....Believe they may not have...Not sure though because that exit ramp off from east bound has been completely redone these last 2 years.....

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/pwsgradesomersetintr.jpg

No and the proof is in this shot. Enjoy!!

[southpennrailroad]

I added this map to show how I follow the proposed South Penn grade onto todays topographic maps. Remember there was not a spade of dirt turned on this mountain front. So by studying this old railroad map I was able to locate where it should have been built. Not bad for an idle period of 120 years



The South Penn physical work only occoured between the areas from just one mile east of the Blue Mountain tunnel to just immediatly west of the Donegal interchange. However I didn't stop exploring the South Penn because I ran out of wrk sites. The areas where no work was done also and intreaged me even more. After acquireing the survey maps and the1884 report, I continued exploreing the clues provided and managed to piece together these plat maps to form a survey map much like they most likely did in the office. Look close if its possible to see just how many maps I had to piece together to make this map of the descent down the west slope of the Chestnut ridge between the Pennsylvania Turnpike 86.0 mile post to the 80.0 mile post. The added milage caused an extra five miles in the curves that were made. The turnpike would be just about crossig from the bottom right corner to the top left corner through this map.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/chestnutdescent.jpg

[Modelcar]

....That's a great pic of the east portal of Quemahoning.

They just did a lot of renovation work there at Somerset Interchange....but I'll try to locate the PW&S near the toll both....Hope they didn't disturb that exact area....Believe they may not have...Not sure though because that exit ramp off from east bound has been completely redone these last 2 years.....