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345mph!

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 5, 2004 5:34 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

In the Trains Magazine news wire for Friday 7-31, there was an article about how a British Rail Eurostar train hit 208 mph in a test run. The article goes on to mention that the French TGV has reached 300 mph, and that Japanese Shinkansen has hit 345 mph in speed tests! 345!

And here we are in the great and mighty and rich USA getting excited that we may have trains going 110 mph soon. And on our "pride & joy" northeast corridor we hit an breathtaking 150mph, when the trains are not pulling down the catenary that was installed 100 years ago!!

I seriously doubt that Japan, France, or England have much more cash available for such projects than the USA. They just have the determination and foresight.


[:D] AM i the only one the finds things that are made in Japan, like most toilets, they break very often.. I used to work maintenance, Japaneese toilets were hated among us.
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 5, 2004 5:34 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

In the Trains Magazine news wire for Friday 7-31, there was an article about how a British Rail Eurostar train hit 208 mph in a test run. The article goes on to mention that the French TGV has reached 300 mph, and that Japanese Shinkansen has hit 345 mph in speed tests! 345!

And here we are in the great and mighty and rich USA getting excited that we may have trains going 110 mph soon. And on our "pride & joy" northeast corridor we hit an breathtaking 150mph, when the trains are not pulling down the catenary that was installed 100 years ago!!

I seriously doubt that Japan, France, or England have much more cash available for such projects than the USA. They just have the determination and foresight.


[:D] AM i the only one the finds things that are made in Japan, like most toilets, they break very often.. I used to work maintenance, Japaneese toilets were hated among us.
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Posted by TH&B on Monday, January 5, 2004 7:15 PM
Subway train tracks are layed on conrete in tunnels without wooden ties, they don't seem to derail all the time and the train comes by every 2 mins right here in American cities.
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Posted by TH&B on Monday, January 5, 2004 7:15 PM
Subway train tracks are layed on conrete in tunnels without wooden ties, they don't seem to derail all the time and the train comes by every 2 mins right here in American cities.
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Posted by dehusman on Monday, January 5, 2004 7:21 PM
It would be much easier for a passenger train to hit 345 mph in the US. Since so few people would ride it, it wouldn't have much of a load. 8-)

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Posted by dehusman on Monday, January 5, 2004 7:21 PM
It would be much easier for a passenger train to hit 345 mph in the US. Since so few people would ride it, it wouldn't have much of a load. 8-)

Dave H.

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 5, 2004 9:40 PM
The German ICE Train did suffer at least one catastrophic derailment at high speed. The derailment occurred just short of an overpass and the train basically pilled up against the piers of the overpass. See: http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9806/04/germany.train/
or Google Search "German ICE Train derailment. The train was traveling at about 200 Kmph when its believed a wheel broke. About 100 died and 88 additional were injured.

This happened near Hanover, in North Central Germany. Last year I hosted an exchange student from Germany who lived near Hanover and we had talked about this. He said that in spite of this, ridership is still very strong, given that it was an isolated incident. He said that he found their rail system overall to be pretty convenient.

HERE'S THE BIG KICKER that I don't think anyone mentioned above. In Germany, gasoline is about $2.50 euros per liter. ie.. approx $8.00 US / gallon. How much would you drive your car if gas cost that much in the US? What do you think the govt does with the revenue that they raise? Perhaps transportation projects like high-speed rail. I think many U.S. citizens want the perks of this, but don't want to pay for it.

There is also a big difference in the US in terms of population and Geography. Germany is approx 2.5 times the size of my home state (Wisconsin), but has nearly 10 times the population. That changes the mass transit dynamic tremendously.

I guess its all got to be viewd in context. It is ironic how much money is poured into government built and funded airports, highways, canals and ports .... but when it comes to a rail project, there is a VERY jaundiced eye turned toward it. Maybe there still some stigma from the land grants given by the govt to RR's in the past and the abuses that happened there. Who knows. Maybe its just an generally un-educated public who doesn't understand the potential of passenger rail and that virtually every other form of transportation that they use is REALLY publicly funded underneath it all.
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 5, 2004 9:40 PM
The German ICE Train did suffer at least one catastrophic derailment at high speed. The derailment occurred just short of an overpass and the train basically pilled up against the piers of the overpass. See: http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9806/04/germany.train/
or Google Search "German ICE Train derailment. The train was traveling at about 200 Kmph when its believed a wheel broke. About 100 died and 88 additional were injured.

This happened near Hanover, in North Central Germany. Last year I hosted an exchange student from Germany who lived near Hanover and we had talked about this. He said that in spite of this, ridership is still very strong, given that it was an isolated incident. He said that he found their rail system overall to be pretty convenient.

HERE'S THE BIG KICKER that I don't think anyone mentioned above. In Germany, gasoline is about $2.50 euros per liter. ie.. approx $8.00 US / gallon. How much would you drive your car if gas cost that much in the US? What do you think the govt does with the revenue that they raise? Perhaps transportation projects like high-speed rail. I think many U.S. citizens want the perks of this, but don't want to pay for it.

There is also a big difference in the US in terms of population and Geography. Germany is approx 2.5 times the size of my home state (Wisconsin), but has nearly 10 times the population. That changes the mass transit dynamic tremendously.

I guess its all got to be viewd in context. It is ironic how much money is poured into government built and funded airports, highways, canals and ports .... but when it comes to a rail project, there is a VERY jaundiced eye turned toward it. Maybe there still some stigma from the land grants given by the govt to RR's in the past and the abuses that happened there. Who knows. Maybe its just an generally un-educated public who doesn't understand the potential of passenger rail and that virtually every other form of transportation that they use is REALLY publicly funded underneath it all.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 2:47 AM
I live only one kilometer away from the 2002 opened highspeed line from Frankfurt to Cologne. It´s very impressive when such an ICE3 passes the Limburg station with 300 kilometers per hour. At our two other highspeedlines, Wuerzburg - Hannover and Mannheim - Stuttgart the maximum speed is 280 km/h.

At the new line the roadbed is complete concrete! And the latest news that I had heard is that the test ICE, the ICE/S, made a run with more than 360 km/h there at one early morning (3 pm!!!)

I had the luck to become cabrides from Frankfurt to Muenster with an ICE3 - over the complete line from Frankfurt to Cologne, and from Frankfurt to Hamburg. There the used ICE1, uses the line to Hannover, the train enters this line at Fulda, about 99 kilometers in the north of Wuerzburg.

This rides are very impressive. I remember that the ICE3 ran a maximum speed of 302.4 km/h!
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 2:47 AM
I live only one kilometer away from the 2002 opened highspeed line from Frankfurt to Cologne. It´s very impressive when such an ICE3 passes the Limburg station with 300 kilometers per hour. At our two other highspeedlines, Wuerzburg - Hannover and Mannheim - Stuttgart the maximum speed is 280 km/h.

At the new line the roadbed is complete concrete! And the latest news that I had heard is that the test ICE, the ICE/S, made a run with more than 360 km/h there at one early morning (3 pm!!!)

I had the luck to become cabrides from Frankfurt to Muenster with an ICE3 - over the complete line from Frankfurt to Cologne, and from Frankfurt to Hamburg. There the used ICE1, uses the line to Hannover, the train enters this line at Fulda, about 99 kilometers in the north of Wuerzburg.

This rides are very impressive. I remember that the ICE3 ran a maximum speed of 302.4 km/h!
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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 7:46 AM
There is a better design for a track structure. It consists of a continous upside down "pi" of very hard steel, with a precoated standard rail in very hard neoprene wedged into the upside down pi, with a space on both sides of the rail to the flange on each side of one wheel wideth. The flanges acting as continuous guard rails. The wide base of the upside-down pi provides the support needed, off the ballast, and instead of wood ties, there are steel rods keeping the "pi"s properly spaced for guage. A track structure that is both resilient and rigid enough to prevent sunkinks, and very very safe at high speed. Dave PS Possibly that is where the money being used for fuel cell Hydrogen research should really go.
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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 7:46 AM
There is a better design for a track structure. It consists of a continous upside down "pi" of very hard steel, with a precoated standard rail in very hard neoprene wedged into the upside down pi, with a space on both sides of the rail to the flange on each side of one wheel wideth. The flanges acting as continuous guard rails. The wide base of the upside-down pi provides the support needed, off the ballast, and instead of wood ties, there are steel rods keeping the "pi"s properly spaced for guage. A track structure that is both resilient and rigid enough to prevent sunkinks, and very very safe at high speed. Dave PS Possibly that is where the money being used for fuel cell Hydrogen research should really go.
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Posted by Hugh Jampton on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 12:12 PM
Originally posted by zardoz

In the Trains Magazine news wire for Friday 7-31, there was an article about how a British Rail Eurostar train hit 208 mph in a test run. The article goes on to mention that the French TGV has reached 300 mph, and that Japanese Shinkansen has hit 345 mph in speed tests! 345!


Eem,, I think the problem is that the news wire may have confuse miles per hour with kilometers per hour,because Europe and Japan use the Metric system where a kilometre is only 5/8ths of a mile, so sure it seems fast.
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Posted by Hugh Jampton on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 12:12 PM
Originally posted by zardoz

In the Trains Magazine news wire for Friday 7-31, there was an article about how a British Rail Eurostar train hit 208 mph in a test run. The article goes on to mention that the French TGV has reached 300 mph, and that Japanese Shinkansen has hit 345 mph in speed tests! 345!


Eem,, I think the problem is that the news wire may have confuse miles per hour with kilometers per hour,because Europe and Japan use the Metric system where a kilometre is only 5/8ths of a mile, so sure it seems fast.
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Posted by zardoz on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 12:41 PM
I just read the link that dblstack placed in his post. I quote from the article here:

"Officials said it appeared that the fifth car of the 12-car train hit the bridge. The back end of the car was broken off and the fourth car veered off the rails and rolled onto its side, while three other cars jackknifed farther up the line.

The lead locomotive remained on the tracks, and the driver apparently was unaware of the disaster. It came to a stop only after the station master at Eschede activated an emergency brake."

Is it just me, or does anyone else notice something odd about the chain of events listed here??
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Posted by zardoz on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 12:41 PM
I just read the link that dblstack placed in his post. I quote from the article here:

"Officials said it appeared that the fifth car of the 12-car train hit the bridge. The back end of the car was broken off and the fourth car veered off the rails and rolled onto its side, while three other cars jackknifed farther up the line.

The lead locomotive remained on the tracks, and the driver apparently was unaware of the disaster. It came to a stop only after the station master at Eschede activated an emergency brake."

Is it just me, or does anyone else notice something odd about the chain of events listed here??
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Posted by dharmon on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 12:52 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

I just read the link that dblstack placed in his post. I quote from the article here:

"Officials said it appeared that the fifth car of the 12-car train hit the bridge. The back end of the car was broken off and the fourth car veered off the rails and rolled onto its side, while three other cars jackknifed farther up the line.

The lead locomotive remained on the tracks, and the driver apparently was unaware of the disaster. It came to a stop only after the station master at Eschede activated an emergency brake."

Is it just me, or does anyone else notice something odd about the chain of events listed here??



Ummm......I guess it kinda seems odd that the sudden loss of air pressure didn't trigger a mild reaction of .... say brakes, maybe they need to put Ed's mirror on it so they can periodically check and see if the rest of the consist is still there.
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Posted by dharmon on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 12:52 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

I just read the link that dblstack placed in his post. I quote from the article here:

"Officials said it appeared that the fifth car of the 12-car train hit the bridge. The back end of the car was broken off and the fourth car veered off the rails and rolled onto its side, while three other cars jackknifed farther up the line.

The lead locomotive remained on the tracks, and the driver apparently was unaware of the disaster. It came to a stop only after the station master at Eschede activated an emergency brake."

Is it just me, or does anyone else notice something odd about the chain of events listed here??



Ummm......I guess it kinda seems odd that the sudden loss of air pressure didn't trigger a mild reaction of .... say brakes, maybe they need to put Ed's mirror on it so they can periodically check and see if the rest of the consist is still there.
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Posted by dharmon on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 12:57 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

I just read the link that dblstack placed in his post. I quote from the article here:

"Officials said it appeared that the fifth car of the 12-car train hit the bridge. The back end of the car was broken off and the fourth car veered off the rails and rolled onto its side, while three other cars jackknifed farther up the line.

The lead locomotive remained on the tracks, and the driver apparently was unaware of the disaster. It came to a stop only after the station master at Eschede activated an emergency brake."

Is it just me, or does anyone else notice something odd about the chain of events listed here??



Ummm......I guess it kinda seems odd that the sudden loss of air pressure didn't trigger a mild reaction of .... say brakes, maybe they need to put Ed's mirror on it so they can periodically check and see if the rest of the consist is still there.


Next stop Eschede. All passengers for Eschede please move to coaches Four and Five. Through passengers please move to coaches three and forward.
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Posted by dharmon on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 12:57 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

I just read the link that dblstack placed in his post. I quote from the article here:

"Officials said it appeared that the fifth car of the 12-car train hit the bridge. The back end of the car was broken off and the fourth car veered off the rails and rolled onto its side, while three other cars jackknifed farther up the line.

The lead locomotive remained on the tracks, and the driver apparently was unaware of the disaster. It came to a stop only after the station master at Eschede activated an emergency brake."

Is it just me, or does anyone else notice something odd about the chain of events listed here??



Ummm......I guess it kinda seems odd that the sudden loss of air pressure didn't trigger a mild reaction of .... say brakes, maybe they need to put Ed's mirror on it so they can periodically check and see if the rest of the consist is still there.


Next stop Eschede. All passengers for Eschede please move to coaches Four and Five. Through passengers please move to coaches three and forward.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 12:21 PM
FYI--
The Al Perlman-run NYC proved in 1966 that ordinary track could handle high-speed rail service, a la the M-497 jet-powered RDC-3 series of tests. The track chosen for the test was the New York Central main line that runs between Butler, Indiana, and Air Line Junction (west of Toledo), Ohio—the longest multiple track railroad line in the U.S.—68.49 miles. At that time, the line consisted almost entirely of standard, 39-foot sections of 26-year-old bolted 127-lb/yard Dudley Modified rail (with one short four-mile portion of continuously welded rail). The tracks between Bryan Ohio and Butler Indiana were typical of the rr tracks of that day. The M-497 set the U.S. rail speed record of 183.85 mph, which remains unbroken. Actually, Don Wetzel, the engineer, had the train up to 196+ mph but was under orders to bring it through the timing point somewhere around 180 mph, so the record could have been even higher than it turned out to be.
When I read that the tracks aren't up to high-speed service, I'm always surprised. What's not up to snuff is the signalling which only allows 79 mph on main lines. The tracks can take it, the signals can't.
Check out the high-speed tests in southern Illinois last summer for more on this.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 12:21 PM
FYI--
The Al Perlman-run NYC proved in 1966 that ordinary track could handle high-speed rail service, a la the M-497 jet-powered RDC-3 series of tests. The track chosen for the test was the New York Central main line that runs between Butler, Indiana, and Air Line Junction (west of Toledo), Ohio—the longest multiple track railroad line in the U.S.—68.49 miles. At that time, the line consisted almost entirely of standard, 39-foot sections of 26-year-old bolted 127-lb/yard Dudley Modified rail (with one short four-mile portion of continuously welded rail). The tracks between Bryan Ohio and Butler Indiana were typical of the rr tracks of that day. The M-497 set the U.S. rail speed record of 183.85 mph, which remains unbroken. Actually, Don Wetzel, the engineer, had the train up to 196+ mph but was under orders to bring it through the timing point somewhere around 180 mph, so the record could have been even higher than it turned out to be.
When I read that the tracks aren't up to high-speed service, I'm always surprised. What's not up to snuff is the signalling which only allows 79 mph on main lines. The tracks can take it, the signals can't.
Check out the high-speed tests in southern Illinois last summer for more on this.

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