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Trying to ticket and fine train crews.

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Posted by fire5506 on Saturday, January 24, 2009 6:17 PM

 

edblysard
Actually, I have cut crossings near fire stations for just that reason...most of the neighborhood near our tracks are...well, you get the idea, the ambulances and first responders are kept busy, and if we know we are going to be sitting on more than one crossing, we cut the one nearest the station.
And just like Erik pointed out...under Texas law, I can’t get the ticket...the yardmaster or trainmaster who instructed me to occupy the crossing does.
Which is why I don't carry my TDL with me at work...had a cop threaten to arrest me because I wouldn't produce my drivers license for him, so he could ticket me...I pointed out that I was not operating a motor vehicle on public roads, so my TDL wasn’t needed...he said I had to have it for ID purposes...I pointed out it was nothing more than a permit to operate a motor vehicle on Texas roads, not a state issued ID card, and that no state or federal law I know of requires anyone to carry any form of internal passport or papers, including and ID card…only that you provide the officer with the required information when asked, name, address, age…and that it was up to the police to confirm who I say I am, not up to me to prove it...I offered him my railroad issued ID, he threw it on the ground, got all angry...I called the TM, who called our attorney, who showed up and explained to the cop that I was right.
The cop’s supervisor showed up too...agreed with our attorney.
Here is why I don’t carry my TDL with me...If I was to be issued a citation, it would go on my driving record, and my insurance would go up...and Texas just started a point system.
The DPS, Texas Department of Public Safety has issued an official bulletin to all of the State Troopers and Texas Rangers stating that asking a train crew member for a Texas drivers license during a grade crossing accident investigation, or when issuing a citation for blocked crossing is not legal, nor is it proper procedure.
I carry my railroad ID and rules card on a beaded chain around my neck...no wallet...on purpose.
Ed

  I have known a couple of engineers that had problems with insurance because of using their DL's for ID. The accidents were listed on the DL and the insurance company used it as a reason to up the premiums.

   Richard

 

QUOTE: Originally posted by braund91

QUOTE: Originally posted by pat390

A couple months ago a CN train was blocking 5 out of 7 of the crossings in town, I had the scanner on and the cops were having all kinds of problems because of this. After about 15-20 minutes the train moved on out of town, but it was pretty funny while it lasted.


Pretty funny until that interrupts an ambulance run. Then it's not so funny.

 
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Posted by Kevin C. Smith on Saturday, January 24, 2009 3:31 AM

 

Oh, shoot. I read through all three pages (on not very fast dialup) without noticing the date... Still it was interesting.
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Posted by sovablunt on Saturday, January 24, 2009 1:11 AM

 Still, its good reading.

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Posted by ValleyX on Friday, January 23, 2009 7:54 PM
trainboyH16-44

BNSF2828
I was train watching from a parking lot after waiting for an hour for East bound i finly herd the horn the crossing gates started to go down as soon the loco hit the crossing 3 sheriff cars came to a halt with full sierins and lights on talk about bad timing.
 

Ah, nothing like someone ressurecting 3 year old threads with off topic replies that wouldn't add anything to most discussions...

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Posted by trainboyH16-44 on Thursday, January 22, 2009 6:11 PM

BNSF2828
I was train watching from a parking lot after waiting for an hour for East bound i finly herd the horn the crossing gates started to go down as soon the loco hit the crossing 3 sheriff cars came to a halt with full sierins and lights on talk about bad timing.

 

Ah, nothing like someone ressurecting 3 year old threads with off topic replies that wouldn't add anything to most discussions...

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Posted by BNSF2828 on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 3:56 AM
I was train watching from a parking lot after waiting for an hour for East bound i finly herd the horn the crossing gates started to go down as soon the loco hit the crossing 3 sheriff cars came to a halt with full sierins and lights on talk about bad timing.
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 14, 2006 7:12 AM
I've met the local NS trainmaster... it would be pretty rough trying to track him down and arresting him... he doesn't stay in one place very long. The tried and true law enforcement method of staking out the girlfriend or wife wouldn't work either... he said he doesn't see his family much.

I can't imagine any of the local judges issuing a warrant on the guy- which would be the only way any cop would go out hunting for him. If we hauled him off to jail he would lose his cell phone... and NS operations in this neck of the woods would crash.

Erik
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Posted by mackb4 on Thursday, April 13, 2006 11:41 PM
Around 13 years ago our local trainmaster was hauled off to the county jail for his Kenova (WVa) locals blocking crossings.The railroad posted his bail and I'm not sure if anyone was ticketed,but I'm sure a fine was given to the railroad.The city has eased off in resent years,but I'm sure they monitor crossing.I just wish I could get the tags of all the cars,trucks,etc,that run the gates on me.Because they all would get a ticket [:(!] !

Collin ,operator of the " Eastern Kentucky & Ohio R.R."

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Posted by edblysard on Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:37 PM
Actually, I have cut crossings near fire stations for just that reason...most of the neighborhood near our tracks are...well, you get the idea, the ambulances and first responders are kept busy, and if we know we are going to be sitting on more than one crossing, we cut the one nearest the station.
And just like Erik pointed out...under Texas law, I can’t get the ticket...the yardmaster or trainmaster who instructed me to occupy the crossing does.
Which is why I don't carry my TDL with me at work...had a cop threaten to arrest me because I wouldn't produce my drivers license for him, so he could ticket me...I pointed out that I was not operating a motor vehicle on public roads, so my TDL wasn’t needed...he said I had to have it for ID purposes...I pointed out it was nothing more than a permit to operate a motor vehicle on Texas roads, not a state issued ID card, and that no state or federal law I know of requires anyone to carry any form of internal passport or papers, including and ID card…only that you provide the officer with the required information when asked, name, address, age…and that it was up to the police to confirm who I say I am, not up to me to prove it...I offered him my railroad issued ID, he threw it on the ground, got all angry...I called the TM, who called our attorney, who showed up and explained to the cop that I was right.
The cop’s supervisor showed up too...agreed with our attorney.
Here is why I don’t carry my TDL with me...If I was to be issued a citation, it would go on my driving record, and my insurance would go up...and Texas just started a point system.
The DPS, Texas Department of Public Safety has issued an official bulletin to all of the State Troopers and Texas Rangers stating that asking a train crew member for a Texas drivers license during a grade crossing accident investigation, or when issuing a citation for blocked crossing is not legal, nor is it proper procedure.
I carry my railroad ID and rules card on a beaded chain around my neck...no wallet...on purpose.
Ed


QUOTE: Originally posted by braund91

QUOTE: Originally posted by pat390

A couple months ago a CN train was blocking 5 out of 7 of the crossings in town, I had the scanner on and the cops were having all kinds of problems because of this. After about 15-20 minutes the train moved on out of town, but it was pretty funny while it lasted.


Pretty funny until that interrupts an ambulance run. Then it's not so funny.

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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thursday, April 13, 2006 7:31 PM
appeal to state/feds etc.
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Posted by CNW 6000 on Thursday, April 13, 2006 6:42 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Dutchrailnut

If emergency responce is such a big concern it should be up to town board to suggest to built an overpass or tunnel .
towns tread railroads as cash cows and even tax them on the crossing, so the railroad owns it and town has right of passage, if its convenient to the taxpayer (railroad)

...and if the town's too small to afford a bridge/overpass/tunnel then what? They're SOL.

Dan

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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thursday, April 13, 2006 6:39 PM
If emergency responce is such a big concern it should be up to town board to suggest to built an overpass or tunnel .
towns tread railroads as cash cows and even tax them on the crossing, so the railroad owns it and town has right of passage, if its convenient to the taxpayer (railroad)
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Posted by CNW 6000 on Thursday, April 13, 2006 5:41 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by pat390

A couple months ago a CN train was blocking 5 out of 7 of the crossings in town, I had the scanner on and the cops were having all kinds of problems because of this. After about 15-20 minutes the train moved on out of town, but it was pretty funny while it lasted.


Pretty funny until that interrupts an ambulance run. Then it's not so funny.

Dan

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Posted by pat390 on Thursday, April 13, 2006 4:48 PM
A couple months ago a CN train was blocking 5 out of 7 of the crossings in town, I had the scanner on and the cops were having all kinds of problems because of this. After about 15-20 minutes the train moved on out of town, but it was pretty funny while it lasted.
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 13, 2006 11:50 AM
As a matter of fact, Alabama law is pretty clear on who police officers and sheriff's deputies can write tickets on. Trainmen and engineers are part of the "untouchables" while they are conducting train operations. (In fact, they are more priveledged than average cops... who can and do get tickets for traffic offenses- even in their own cars)

Erik
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Posted by edblysard on Thursday, April 13, 2006 7:15 AM
Yeah,
You do that...in fact, if he bothers you again, let me know, and I will write him a letter...[:D]
QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

you must make sure the railroad pays it other wise one day if the police check you out and there is a warrent for your arrest for this guess who goes to jail. and i am going to tell the road forman that ed says i cant be held resposible for anything that happens .

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Posted by beefmalone on Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:21 AM
here in jackson, ms KCS used to have a habit of running a train through downtown every day right around 5pm. they weren't very well-loved by ANYONE for that.
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Posted by wabash1 on Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:14 AM
you must make sure the railroad pays it other wise one day if the police check you out and there is a warrent for your arrest for this guess who goes to jail. and i am going to tell the road forman that ed says i cant be held resposible for anything that happens .
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Posted by coborn35 on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 9:22 AM
Crews get the tickets, turn it into their Trainmaster, railroad pays it. End of story.

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Posted by zardoz on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 8:03 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by erikthered
About a year ago, if memory serves me correctly, there was an incident involving a police officer and a UP train blocking a crossing. Apparently, the crew ended up dead on the law and had left the train. In any event, the officer contacted UP dispatch and continued to write citation after citation... and UP ended up paying something like $100,000 in fines. (It must have been a REALLY slow day for that particular officer!)
Erik

If we are thinking of the same incident, that happened in Oak Creek, WI. A crew died on hours, got in the cab, and left the hind end of their coal train blocking one road. The train size used to be such that the trains would fit, but with the longer trains now, they do not.

What the problem was, is that the blocked road was the ONLY access residents had to their houses. So not only could people not leave their neighborhood, they also could not get in, nor could emergency vehicles.

The railroad (and crew) deserved what ever punishment was given. No excuses.
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Posted by edblysard on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:47 AM
Well,
Considering that most RFEs think they "are god" in the first place.....[:D]
QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Broken knuckles, busted air hose, things of that nature are "acts of God" and most of the time the ticket or citation is dismissed...
Time allowed to block crossings without movement depends on the local ordinance...here in Houston it is 10 minutes...

Ed


Thanks, Ed, now I know what I'm going to tell the RFE if I'm unlucky enough to get a knuckle.[:D]

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 1:30 AM
When the BNSF Cherokee Sub dipatcher is going to hold a train, they almost always tell the crew to cut the crossings or stay off the crossings. I am not sure what time limit they use to determine when to tell the road crews to do this, but while railfanning I have seen trains that were pulling into a particular siding they like to do meets at and while they were clearing the main, the dispatcher told them to cut the crossing because they would be there for awhile. Then he called back when the train they were meeting was about 10 miles away and told them to start putting it back together. But I have seen trains sit on the same siding across the crossing for 10-15 mins. After about 5 mins cars turned around for alt. routing. Some were pretty upset. As a railfan it doesn't bother me to sit at a blocked crossing, but I can understand the general public having a concern. It can be very inconvienient if the crossing is blocked for long periods, especially if there is a viable alt. route.

Like I said, the BNSF crews do a good job in Tulsa to stay off the crossings. As does the UP.

Mike in Tulsa
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Posted by ValleyX on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:15 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Broken knuckles, busted air hose, things of that nature are "acts of God" and most of the time the ticket or citation is dismissed...
Time allowed to block crossings without movement depends on the local ordinance...here in Houston it is 10 minutes...

Ed


Thanks, Ed, now I know what I'm going to tell the RFE if I'm unlucky enough to get a knuckle.[:D]
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Posted by edbenton on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:06 PM
This thread is like NY trying to fine truckers for Idiling their engines at night to stay comfortable
Always at war with those that think OTR trucking is EASY.
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Posted by CNW 6000 on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:03 PM
AMTK161 did you say 16 engine train?

Dan

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Posted by AMTK161 on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:38 PM
Down here at Eola sometimes we have crossing blockages for a long period of time, the longest I remember was maybe close to an hour while a 16-engine westbound sorted out some trash. I didn't much care because they had 2 GEVOs rite next to where our car was stopped so it was all good.
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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 5:43 PM
The story is almost as old as railroading. The city of Pontiac, MI, used to get mad at Grand Trunk for - blocking crossings.

An interesting twist happened not long ago here. The train was stopped (and I think was blocking one crossing), with the tail end still in another crossing circuit. I never heard what precipitated the stop, but city cops were waving people through the second crossing, since the gates were down... I don't believe any tickets were written, though.

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Posted by CNW 6000 on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 2:25 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by csx-dispatcher

To who ever this concerns.....We have posted list of crossings that we are to stay off of. If the crew does come down on that crossing to p/u or s/o, the county can ticket the "company". The crews know they have to keep their train out of town and bring their power into to town to pickup. Now there are situations if we have a train in emergency, that cannot be helped.

I use to run on an engine....There was this road that ran next to our tracks for 15 miles or so and we had a state police beside the track following us. He had his lights on pointing as us. So we stopped thinking somthing was wrong with our train. The funny thing is when we got down to talk to him he wanted to give us a ticket for going 10mph over the street posted speed limit which is 40mph. We laughed and went on our way.

I wish you had taken a picture of that guys face when you did that. Priceless!

Dan

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Posted by edblysard on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:28 PM
Broken knuckles, busted air hose, things of that nature are "acts of God" and most of the time the ticket or citation is dismissed...
Time allowed to block crossings without movement depends on the local ordinance...here in Houston it is 10 minutes...

Ed

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