Trying to ticket and fine train crews.

[sanvtoman]

If this has already been discussed please excuse the post. In a suburb near me they have problems with railroad crossings blocked for long periods. For a time the local police were trying to "ticket" the engineer and conductor for blocking the crossing. I e-mailed the station and told them the crew has no control over the situation.They are under the jurisdiction of a dispatcher in Jacksonville or Chicago or elsewhere.Anyway i never heard back from them but i know they continue to fine the carriers.Has anybody else heard of this happening? Once again if this has been discussed sorry. Thank you!

[sanvtoman]

Food for thought Chad. I would like to try to get along better. You know we all have feelings believe it or not. Since not seince we both like railroading we at least have that in common. to tell you the truth i am new at this as you delight in stating so any "good natured" help is more than welcome. If i deleted your response that was not my intention. My intention was to delete my statement.And that is the Gods honest truth. I hope rail fanning is not a dying avocation because i enjoy it.There are not too many of rail fans around so i guess we need to get along better. I will state now for all too see i will try to be more understanding of others. Once again have a good day. P S Your pics of SP units were interesting.

[chad thomas]

Sanvtoman,
OK mabee we got off on the wrong foot. I'm willing to let the past be the past and move on. As I stated before I didn't think you had any bad intentions and I was trying to help you avoid makeing the mistakes that newbies tend to make when they first come on here. You couldn't have deleted the whole thread. It was probably removed by Bergie (our moderator) because where the thread was going. Hang around here a while and you will see what I mean about trolls, we get them quite often in here. When you post something just think about how it would sound in a conversation, and if it fits. Or when you start a topic think to youself does this sound like it would be a good beginning to a conversation. And even though I am one of the worst offenders when it comes to grammar & spelling, everyone needs to at least try there best to make legable posts. I am not the self appointed moderator either, But I am a self appointed smart a$$.[:D]

[wabash1]

ticketing train crews is leagal and it is only one of the crew either engineer or most generally the conductor. the crew can stop clear of all or most crossings. now if i am building a train in the yard and the yard master stops me and the carmen throw the blues up. and i am there more than a hour then the yard master will get the ticket as i wont let the police on the engine. and yes everytme the police have come to the engine they have ask permission to climb aboard.

[Anonymous]

It depends on the locality. I belonged to a department that did not ordinarily write traffic citations, but their policy in an instance like this was to have our dispatcher call the 1-800 number on a crossing. She would then state that the crossing had been blocked in violation of Alabama statute and that the train needed to be moved, or it would be cited. We were not allowed to go track down the engineer or any of the trainmen. The citation, if written, would be mailed to the NS legal folks... who usually would not dispute the ticket. (It would have required a company employee to show up in traffic court to answer the charge.)

About a year ago, if memory serves me correctly, there was an incident involving a police officer and a UP train blocking a crossing. Apparently, the crew ended up dead on the law and had left the train. In any event, the officer contacted UP dispatch and continued to write citation after citation... and UP ended up paying something like $100,000 in fines. (It must have been a REALLY slow day for that particular officer!)

Erik

[Anonymous]

But how can the crew be fined when it's the Railroads falt when something happends to the Train that isn't the crews falt. Such as Power failure? Broken nuckle? ETC. What if the Train goes into Emergency and the crew find the problem,and their still blocking a crossing? What if the Train is way under HP and it stalls on a hill blocking a crossing?
??????? I can't how the crew can take all the blame and just be fined for something that not under their control. Allan.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by erikthered

It depends on the locality. I belonged to a department that did not ordinarily write traffic citations, but their policy in an instance like this was to have our dispatcher call the 1-800 number on a crossing. She would then state that the crossing had been blocked in violation of Alabama statute and that the train needed to be moved, or it would be cited. We were not allowed to go track down the engineer or any of the trainmen. The citation, if written, would be mailed to the NS legal folks... who usually would not dispute the ticket. (It would have required a company employee to show up in traffic court to answer the charge.)

About a year ago, if memory serves me correctly, there was an incident involving a police officer and a UP train blocking a crossing. Apparently, the crew ended up dead on the law and had left the train. In any event, the officer contacted UP dispatch and continued to write citation after citation... and UP ended up paying something like $100,000 in fines. (It must have been a REALLY slow day for that particular officer!)

Erik

Sounds like that was one pissed-off cop.

[samfp1943]

QUOTE: Originally posted by erikthered

It depends on the locality. I belonged to a department that did not ordinarily write traffic citations, but their policy in an instance like this was to have our dispatcher call the 1-800 number on a crossing. She would then state that the crossing had been blocked in violation of Alabama statute and that the train needed to be moved, or it would be cited. We were not allowed to go track down the engineer or any of the trainmen. The citation, if written, would be mailed to the NS legal folks... who usually would not dispute the ticket. (It would have required a company employee to show up in traffic court to answer the charge.)

About a year ago, if memory serves me correctly, there was an incident involving a police officer and a UP train blocking a crossing. Apparently, the crew ended up dead on the law and had left the train. In any event, the officer contacted UP dispatch and continued to write citation after citation... and UP ended up paying something like $100,000 in fines. (It must have been a REALLY slow day for that particular officer!)

Erik

In Memphis, Tn, there used to be a running feud of sort between the City Cops and the Southern [later, NS] over issues around speed of trains, and blocked crossings coming out of the Yard. Literaqlly there were times when the police would race down parallel streets sirens blaring and stop the trains, to write tickets. It was a strange side show, but happened often enough that it was mentioned in the Commercial-Appeal Newspaper. I am not sure if it still goes on there as have been out of the area for some time.
Sam

[CNW 6000]

Know what would make a great COPS? Some officer trying to use the PIT maneuver on a C44-9W or maybe spike strips on an SD 70MAC! COME ON! The concept of an officer citing railcrews sure sounds like a waste of time, legal or not.

[canazar]

If my memory serves me correctly, which it probbaly isnt, I believe here in Phoenix they can be tickted for blocking traffic after 15 minutes. I can think of quite a few spots where during the course of switching the trains can back out or block a crossing. I will see them work for about 10, then cut out, or just pull up and let the traffic flow for a few minutes, then back out again. Not sure if that was a state stautue, county or city.

[Anonymous]

To who ever this concerns.....We have posted list of crossings that we are to stay off of. If the crew does come down on that crossing to p/u or s/o, the county can ticket the "company". The crews know they have to keep their train out of town and bring their power into to town to pickup. Now there are situations if we have a train in emergency, that cannot be helped.

I use to run on an engine....There was this road that ran next to our tracks for 15 miles or so and we had a state police beside the track following us. He had his lights on pointing as us. So we stopped thinking somthing was wrong with our train. The funny thing is when we got down to talk to him he wanted to give us a ticket for going 10mph over the street posted speed limit which is 40mph. We laughed and went on our way.

[edblysard]

Broken knuckles, busted air hose, things of that nature are "acts of God" and most of the time the ticket or citation is dismissed...
Time allowed to block crossings without movement depends on the local ordinance...here in Houston it is 10 minutes...

Ed

[CNW 6000]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csx-dispatcher

To who ever this concerns.....We have posted list of crossings that we are to stay off of. If the crew does come down on that crossing to p/u or s/o, the county can ticket the "company". The crews know they have to keep their train out of town and bring their power into to town to pickup. Now there are situations if we have a train in emergency, that cannot be helped.

I use to run on an engine....There was this road that ran next to our tracks for 15 miles or so and we had a state police beside the track following us. He had his lights on pointing as us. So we stopped thinking somthing was wrong with our train. The funny thing is when we got down to talk to him he wanted to give us a ticket for going 10mph over the street posted speed limit which is 40mph. We laughed and went on our way.

I wish you had taken a picture of that guys face when you did that. Priceless!

[tree68]

The story is almost as old as railroading. The city of Pontiac, MI, used to get mad at Grand Trunk for - blocking crossings.

An interesting twist happened not long ago here. The train was stopped (and I think was blocking one crossing), with the tail end still in another crossing circuit. I never heard what precipitated the stop, but city cops were waving people through the second crossing, since the gates were down... I don't believe any tickets were written, though.

[AMTK161]

Down here at Eola sometimes we have crossing blockages for a long period of time, the longest I remember was maybe close to an hour while a 16-engine westbound sorted out some trash. I didn't much care because they had 2 GEVOs rite next to where our car was stopped so it was all good.

[CNW 6000]

AMTK161 did you say 16 engine train?

[edbenton]

This thread is like NY trying to fine truckers for Idiling their engines at night to stay comfortable

[ValleyX]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Broken knuckles, busted air hose, things of that nature are "acts of God" and most of the time the ticket or citation is dismissed...
Time allowed to block crossings without movement depends on the local ordinance...here in Houston it is 10 minutes...

Ed

Thanks, Ed, now I know what I'm going to tell the RFE if I'm unlucky enough to get a knuckle.[:D]

[Anonymous]

When the BNSF Cherokee Sub dipatcher is going to hold a train, they almost always tell the crew to cut the crossings or stay off the crossings. I am not sure what time limit they use to determine when to tell the road crews to do this, but while railfanning I have seen trains that were pulling into a particular siding they like to do meets at and while they were clearing the main, the dispatcher told them to cut the crossing because they would be there for awhile. Then he called back when the train they were meeting was about 10 miles away and told them to start putting it back together. But I have seen trains sit on the same siding across the crossing for 10-15 mins. After about 5 mins cars turned around for alt. routing. Some were pretty upset. As a railfan it doesn't bother me to sit at a blocked crossing, but I can understand the general public having a concern. It can be very inconvienient if the crossing is blocked for long periods, especially if there is a viable alt. route.

Like I said, the BNSF crews do a good job in Tulsa to stay off the crossings. As does the UP.

Mike in Tulsa
BNSF Cherokee Sub

[edblysard]

Well,
Considering that most RFEs think they "are god" in the first place.....[:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Broken knuckles, busted air hose, things of that nature are "acts of God" and most of the time the ticket or citation is dismissed...
Time allowed to block crossings without movement depends on the local ordinance...here in Houston it is 10 minutes...

Ed

Thanks, Ed, now I know what I'm going to tell the RFE if I'm unlucky enough to get a knuckle.[:D]

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by erikthered
About a year ago, if memory serves me correctly, there was an incident involving a police officer and a UP train blocking a crossing. Apparently, the crew ended up dead on the law and had left the train. In any event, the officer contacted UP dispatch and continued to write citation after citation... and UP ended up paying something like $100,000 in fines. (It must have been a REALLY slow day for that particular officer!)
Erik

If we are thinking of the same incident, that happened in Oak Creek, WI. A crew died on hours, got in the cab, and left the hind end of their coal train blocking one road. The train size used to be such that the trains would fit, but with the longer trains now, they do not.

What the problem was, is that the blocked road was the ONLY access residents had to their houses. So not only could people not leave their neighborhood, they also could not get in, nor could emergency vehicles.

The railroad (and crew) deserved what ever punishment was given. No excuses.

[coborn35]

Crews get the tickets, turn it into their Trainmaster, railroad pays it. End of story.

[wabash1]

you must make sure the railroad pays it other wise one day if the police check you out and there is a warrent for your arrest for this guess who goes to jail. and i am going to tell the road forman that ed says i cant be held resposible for anything that happens .

[beefmalone]

here in jackson, ms KCS used to have a habit of running a train through downtown every day right around 5pm. they weren't very well-loved by ANYONE for that.

[edblysard]

Yeah,
You do that...in fact, if he bothers you again, let me know, and I will write him a letter...[:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

you must make sure the railroad pays it other wise one day if the police check you out and there is a warrent for your arrest for this guess who goes to jail. and i am going to tell the road forman that ed says i cant be held resposible for anything that happens .

[Anonymous]

As a matter of fact, Alabama law is pretty clear on who police officers and sheriff's deputies can write tickets on. Trainmen and engineers are part of the "untouchables" while they are conducting train operations. (In fact, they are more priveledged than average cops... who can and do get tickets for traffic offenses- even in their own cars)

Erik

[pat390]

A couple months ago a CN train was blocking 5 out of 7 of the crossings in town, I had the scanner on and the cops were having all kinds of problems because of this. After about 15-20 minutes the train moved on out of town, but it was pretty funny while it lasted.

[CNW 6000]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pat390

A couple months ago a CN train was blocking 5 out of 7 of the crossings in town, I had the scanner on and the cops were having all kinds of problems because of this. After about 15-20 minutes the train moved on out of town, but it was pretty funny while it lasted.

Pretty funny until that interrupts an ambulance run. Then it's not so funny.

[Dutchrailnut]

If emergency responce is such a big concern it should be up to town board to suggest to built an overpass or tunnel .
towns tread railroads as cash cows and even tax them on the crossing, so the railroad owns it and town has right of passage, if its convenient to the taxpayer (railroad)

[CNW 6000]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Dutchrailnut

If emergency responce is such a big concern it should be up to town board to suggest to built an overpass or tunnel .
towns tread railroads as cash cows and even tax them on the crossing, so the railroad owns it and town has right of passage, if its convenient to the taxpayer (railroad)

...and if the town's too small to afford a bridge/overpass/tunnel then what? They're SOL.