Spiking a switch

[Mookie]

means? (does it have something to do with keeping it open one way?)

Jen

[Mookie]

means? (does it have something to do with keeping it open one way?)

Jen

[Anonymous]

it actually is meant to keep rolling stock off of that set of rails, due to a defect that will be fixed at a later date

[Anonymous]

it actually is meant to keep rolling stock off of that set of rails, due to a defect that will be fixed at a later date

[zardoz]

Mookie-
Exactly. That is when a MOW person actually drives a spike into a tie to prevent the switch points from moving. Done usually when the switch is not working correctly, or sometimes to protect a segment of track from being entered (when the track has no other means of protection). Many of the 'new' switches the CNW used in it's yards were of the type that a train could "run through" them without damaging the switch (to 'run through' is to proceed through a trailing point switch without lining the switch points for the correct route). This procedure was considered a rule violation, and was only done (at least on purpose) at locations where there was no supervisor present.

The "old style" switches were designed differently; if a train trailed through them without being lined correctly, many parts of the switch would break, making the switch unusable until it was "spiked" into place. Trailing through a damaged switch was no problem, but doing a facing-point move through a damaged switch was an easy way to derail equipment.

jim

[zardoz]

Mookie-
Exactly. That is when a MOW person actually drives a spike into a tie to prevent the switch points from moving. Done usually when the switch is not working correctly, or sometimes to protect a segment of track from being entered (when the track has no other means of protection). Many of the 'new' switches the CNW used in it's yards were of the type that a train could "run through" them without damaging the switch (to 'run through' is to proceed through a trailing point switch without lining the switch points for the correct route). This procedure was considered a rule violation, and was only done (at least on purpose) at locations where there was no supervisor present.

The "old style" switches were designed differently; if a train trailed through them without being lined correctly, many parts of the switch would break, making the switch unusable until it was "spiked" into place. Trailing through a damaged switch was no problem, but doing a facing-point move through a damaged switch was an easy way to derail equipment.

jim

[Mookie]

thank you!

[Mookie]

thank you!

[mudchicken]

Reasons why you spike ANY switch:

(*) It's more effective & absolute than a red flag (i.e. DO NOT USE)
(1) Defective switch
(2) Defect somewhere in the body of a track
(3) Switch points gap & won't close (switch point to stock rail)...common in curves where switches really should not be
(4) Safety issue/ (Do not use, close clearance, bad footing, work in progress on adjoining track, hole, etc.)
(5) Track not owned by RR, track owner upset about cars stored on his track
(6) industry track in contractual dispute or lack of proper contract (track not a team track & therefore a violation of Elkins Anti-Trust Act.....railroad could be accused of playing favorites & granting special favors)
(7) a lot of roadmasters will take an unused track out of service, spike the switch and remove the frog until somebody justifyably howls for it. This saves money on monthly inspections and wear and tear on the frog. In a lot of cases on industrial track, the railroad owns the track from the switch (out of main track, lead or drill track) to the railroad clearance point or railroad R/W line. The industry owns and maintains (or is supposed to) the remainining track. This is usually spelled out in terms of a license agreement or contract between the railroad and industry/ land owner.,

and (8) roadmaster reminding operating guys (train crew, trainmaster, yardmaster, dispatcher and supt.) who really owns the track and is responsible for it. (p.s.- you don't do the steering either!)

If the switch is spiked, there usually must be a posted notice (to train crews) and the switch stand is tagged/ marked so folks like Ed don't try to throw a switch that is in effect "locked up".....

Almost all switch plates that support the end of the switch point have square holes in them just for the purpose of skiking a switch shut and keeping it closed.

Trainmasters where I worked used to accuse me of running around after hours in the dark, spiking switches, just to spite them. I never could understand how i could be working after hours when I was "on-call" 24/7 and did not have set hours.

Zardoz: Your "new switches" are technically called variable switches and the "old style" switches are "rigid"....Ed & I would like to know how you managed to get into an out of service track to run thru the spiked switch. Pull the spike at the OTHER end to get in?

Mudchicken

[mudchicken]

Reasons why you spike ANY switch:

(*) It's more effective & absolute than a red flag (i.e. DO NOT USE)
(1) Defective switch
(2) Defect somewhere in the body of a track
(3) Switch points gap & won't close (switch point to stock rail)...common in curves where switches really should not be
(4) Safety issue/ (Do not use, close clearance, bad footing, work in progress on adjoining track, hole, etc.)
(5) Track not owned by RR, track owner upset about cars stored on his track
(6) industry track in contractual dispute or lack of proper contract (track not a team track & therefore a violation of Elkins Anti-Trust Act.....railroad could be accused of playing favorites & granting special favors)
(7) a lot of roadmasters will take an unused track out of service, spike the switch and remove the frog until somebody justifyably howls for it. This saves money on monthly inspections and wear and tear on the frog. In a lot of cases on industrial track, the railroad owns the track from the switch (out of main track, lead or drill track) to the railroad clearance point or railroad R/W line. The industry owns and maintains (or is supposed to) the remainining track. This is usually spelled out in terms of a license agreement or contract between the railroad and industry/ land owner.,

and (8) roadmaster reminding operating guys (train crew, trainmaster, yardmaster, dispatcher and supt.) who really owns the track and is responsible for it. (p.s.- you don't do the steering either!)

If the switch is spiked, there usually must be a posted notice (to train crews) and the switch stand is tagged/ marked so folks like Ed don't try to throw a switch that is in effect "locked up".....

Almost all switch plates that support the end of the switch point have square holes in them just for the purpose of skiking a switch shut and keeping it closed.

Trainmasters where I worked used to accuse me of running around after hours in the dark, spiking switches, just to spite them. I never could understand how i could be working after hours when I was "on-call" 24/7 and did not have set hours.

Zardoz: Your "new switches" are technically called variable switches and the "old style" switches are "rigid"....Ed & I would like to know how you managed to get into an out of service track to run thru the spiked switch. Pull the spike at the OTHER end to get in?

Mudchicken

[edblysard]

Hi Jenny,
Mudchicken covered just about everything.
Just about.
Switch stands, both low, harp and backsavers have a eye bolt where you can place a padlock to lock the switch handle down, or in place. This is done to prevent certain switches from being used, as when a mow crew parks their equipment in a sideing at night, or for roundhouse switches, storage tracks, you get the idea. Our carmen have their own lock, which they use to lock yard tracks when they will be working in them, laceing up the air hoses, inspecting the air brakes, checking for BOs, things like that, along with blue flagging the track. My switchmans key will not open their locks. They lock the switch for the lead, so no one one can line the switch into the track they are working on. Currently I carry three switch keys, a PTRA key, a UP key, and a old SP key, we still have some of their locks on things. Any track that is locked on a regular basis has a tag or a sign notifying crews it must be relined and locked, our two roundhouse leads have signs mounted where the target should be, instructing crew they must line and lock this switch for the main rail. Its effective because the signs are made of the same reflective stuff street signs are, and at night, you can see them from a great distance, and know the track is lined into the house.
We spike switches here when the switch itself is broken, the track has a defect, or there are cars stored on the track that will be there for a long period of time, such as ballast cars or work cars..
And if you get the chance, look at a the switches around your area, if you find one that says National Switch co, and has the words safety switch cast into the housing, what you have found is just that, a safety switch, or flopper. They have a heavy duty spring loaded clutch mechanisim in them, so if they are run through, the switch points will move, or flop over to the direction of movement. This was for safety measures, not a design feature. In other words, it wasnt designed to be run through, but if you did, it didnt destroy the switch. But, humans being humans, once crews discovered they could run through them, they did so. The major problem was the switchpoints wouldnt always go all the way over, leaving the switch gapped, and the next time someone went through the switch in a facing point move, the wheel flanges would pick the points, and derail the car.
Nothing like watching the front of a car go down one track, and the rear go down another. You would be amazed how far they can travel like that, if the tracks are parallel to each other.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

Hi Jenny,
Mudchicken covered just about everything.
Just about.
Switch stands, both low, harp and backsavers have a eye bolt where you can place a padlock to lock the switch handle down, or in place. This is done to prevent certain switches from being used, as when a mow crew parks their equipment in a sideing at night, or for roundhouse switches, storage tracks, you get the idea. Our carmen have their own lock, which they use to lock yard tracks when they will be working in them, laceing up the air hoses, inspecting the air brakes, checking for BOs, things like that, along with blue flagging the track. My switchmans key will not open their locks. They lock the switch for the lead, so no one one can line the switch into the track they are working on. Currently I carry three switch keys, a PTRA key, a UP key, and a old SP key, we still have some of their locks on things. Any track that is locked on a regular basis has a tag or a sign notifying crews it must be relined and locked, our two roundhouse leads have signs mounted where the target should be, instructing crew they must line and lock this switch for the main rail. Its effective because the signs are made of the same reflective stuff street signs are, and at night, you can see them from a great distance, and know the track is lined into the house.
We spike switches here when the switch itself is broken, the track has a defect, or there are cars stored on the track that will be there for a long period of time, such as ballast cars or work cars..
And if you get the chance, look at a the switches around your area, if you find one that says National Switch co, and has the words safety switch cast into the housing, what you have found is just that, a safety switch, or flopper. They have a heavy duty spring loaded clutch mechanisim in them, so if they are run through, the switch points will move, or flop over to the direction of movement. This was for safety measures, not a design feature. In other words, it wasnt designed to be run through, but if you did, it didnt destroy the switch. But, humans being humans, once crews discovered they could run through them, they did so. The major problem was the switchpoints wouldnt always go all the way over, leaving the switch gapped, and the next time someone went through the switch in a facing point move, the wheel flanges would pick the points, and derail the car.
Nothing like watching the front of a car go down one track, and the rear go down another. You would be amazed how far they can travel like that, if the tracks are parallel to each other.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[enr2099]

Spiking the switch is also done when a spur or siding is removed from service. The E&N just recently spiked a switch near mile 3 where a propane facility has just recently closed. The switch was spiked so that it is now permanately lined for the mainline. Most of the spur itself has been lifted, just the switch remains.

[enr2099]

Spiking the switch is also done when a spur or siding is removed from service. The E&N just recently spiked a switch near mile 3 where a propane facility has just recently closed. The switch was spiked so that it is now permanately lined for the mainline. Most of the spur itself has been lifted, just the switch remains.

[Anonymous]

Just one point about switch locks. As Ed correctly mentioned, each craft of employees has their own different type of lock. Carmen, MOW, TY&E, Mechanical, etc.

Mainline switches are generally all locked. This includes industry sidings from the main. Also, in areas where the main is signalled switches are both locked with padlocks (transportation TY&E key) and also they have electric locks that require special procedures to operate the switch. The train must be in proximity to the switch to be "on the circuit to allow the switch to be opened. Also, if a train is entering the main from non-signalled territory the crew must obtain dispatcher permission before "opening up" and wait for five minutes before proceeding on to the main to allow passage of any train closer than the nearest signal. The DS can orally "waive the five" if he can protect the entering move. This assumes NORAC Rules in effect.

LC

[Anonymous]

Just one point about switch locks. As Ed correctly mentioned, each craft of employees has their own different type of lock. Carmen, MOW, TY&E, Mechanical, etc.

Mainline switches are generally all locked. This includes industry sidings from the main. Also, in areas where the main is signalled switches are both locked with padlocks (transportation TY&E key) and also they have electric locks that require special procedures to operate the switch. The train must be in proximity to the switch to be "on the circuit to allow the switch to be opened. Also, if a train is entering the main from non-signalled territory the crew must obtain dispatcher permission before "opening up" and wait for five minutes before proceeding on to the main to allow passage of any train closer than the nearest signal. The DS can orally "waive the five" if he can protect the entering move. This assumes NORAC Rules in effect.

LC

[BR60103]

I believe that something like this is done when the Queen or President are coming on a big tour and they want to make sure that nothing happens to the train.

[BR60103]

I believe that something like this is done when the Queen or President are coming on a big tour and they want to make sure that nothing happens to the train.

[kenneo]

Jen

On the SP (when I was working there) the only time a switch was spiked was
a) when the points would not seat against the stock rail properly
b) when a "Presidential Special" (see David Young's note) was to be operated.
c) Roadmasters Lock was not available and the switch must be secured prior a lock being made available. then the spike was removed.

The reason for this method was most SP locomotives carried a spike bar and a spike maul. The crew had the ability, most of the time, to remove the spike, use the track and then respike the switch.

The balance of the time a switch needed to be disabled and secured in one position a special lock was used. Only the Roadmaster had the key and the locks were not able to be cut except with a tourch. You had to actually cut a part of the switch stand out of the way or use the proper key.

[kenneo]

Jen

On the SP (when I was working there) the only time a switch was spiked was
a) when the points would not seat against the stock rail properly
b) when a "Presidential Special" (see David Young's note) was to be operated.
c) Roadmasters Lock was not available and the switch must be secured prior a lock being made available. then the spike was removed.

The reason for this method was most SP locomotives carried a spike bar and a spike maul. The crew had the ability, most of the time, to remove the spike, use the track and then respike the switch.

The balance of the time a switch needed to be disabled and secured in one position a special lock was used. Only the Roadmaster had the key and the locks were not able to be cut except with a tourch. You had to actually cut a part of the switch stand out of the way or use the proper key.

[zardoz]

Mudchicken & Ed--

Perhaps I was vauge in my last post. We never [intentionally] ran through a spiked switch; it was the 'variable' switches mentioned by Mudchicken. We were always told that the switches were not designed to be 'run through' on a regular basis, only designed such that if they were run through by accident, they would not break. Of course, we did it anyway.

[zardoz]

Mudchicken & Ed--

Perhaps I was vauge in my last post. We never [intentionally] ran through a spiked switch; it was the 'variable' switches mentioned by Mudchicken. We were always told that the switches were not designed to be 'run through' on a regular basis, only designed such that if they were run through by accident, they would not break. Of course, we did it anyway.

[edblysard]

Sure, so do we, some of them as so worn out, you can hurt yourself throwing them by hand, the have been run through so often, you dont have to pu***he handle down when lining them, just lift it, shove it pass dead center, and drop, it will fall down all by itself.
Of coures, the yardmaster and trainmaster turn a blind eye to it, untill something gets on the ground, but thats normal too.
Off to San Antonio, to visit my sister, pick up my 10 year old from a visit, and see if I can find missouri's hump the dumb butt was "backing" past...My bet is it alond the I35 feeder, right next to Ft Sam Houston.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz1

Mudchicken & Ed--

Perhaps I was vauge in my last post. We never [intentionally] ran through a spiked switch; it was the 'variable' switches mentioned by Mudchicken. We were always told that the switches were not designed to be 'run through' on a regular basis, only designed such that if they were run through by accident, they would not break. Of course, we did it anyway.

[edblysard]

Sure, so do we, some of them as so worn out, you can hurt yourself throwing them by hand, the have been run through so often, you dont have to pu***he handle down when lining them, just lift it, shove it pass dead center, and drop, it will fall down all by itself.
Of coures, the yardmaster and trainmaster turn a blind eye to it, untill something gets on the ground, but thats normal too.
Off to San Antonio, to visit my sister, pick up my 10 year old from a visit, and see if I can find missouri's hump the dumb butt was "backing" past...My bet is it alond the I35 feeder, right next to Ft Sam Houston.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz1

Mudchicken & Ed--

Perhaps I was vauge in my last post. We never [intentionally] ran through a spiked switch; it was the 'variable' switches mentioned by Mudchicken. We were always told that the switches were not designed to be 'run through' on a regular basis, only designed such that if they were run through by accident, they would not break. Of course, we did it anyway.

[Anonymous]

Kenneo,

Wouldn't you quickly wear a tie out if you removed a spike and ran through and then respiked the switch again? Was this a type of temporary measure or was it used for long term problems? Oh, and one more thing . . . what do you do when concrete ties are used, or are they not seen on switches? - The other Ed

[Anonymous]

Kenneo,

Wouldn't you quickly wear a tie out if you removed a spike and ran through and then respiked the switch again? Was this a type of temporary measure or was it used for long term problems? Oh, and one more thing . . . what do you do when concrete ties are used, or are they not seen on switches? - The other Ed

[CShaveRR]

Hey, Jen!

When we had some freezing switches once, the signal crews thawed them with some glycol-based anti-freeze. Would that be considered "spiking" the switch?

Playing with your leg yet again,
Your big bro,
Carl

[CShaveRR]

Hey, Jen!

When we had some freezing switches once, the signal crews thawed them with some glycol-based anti-freeze. Would that be considered "spiking" the switch?

Playing with your leg yet again,
Your big bro,
Carl

[Mookie]

Aw brother Carl - that tickles me!

Jen

[Mookie]

Aw brother Carl - that tickles me!

Jen