NEWS: BNSF buys the Du Quoin-St. Louis line from CN

[Vern Moore]

Anonymous

Could BNSF be trying to bypass Chicago and transfer More Trains in Memphis or Birginham? SO maybe that's the reason they brought the line. 

I think you're hitting near the target.  Refer to CP intermodal from Vancover to Chicago discussion and consider the idea of BNSF looking for a faster route for Post Panamax traffic from a connection to the Port of Vancover to Memphis and Birmingham.

Bypassing St Louis and crossing the Mississippi north of there could make such a routing very attractive for deliveries to Memphis and Birmingham or for hand-off to CSX or NS to deliveries further east.

[MidlandMike]

Has the Centralia yard been downgraded?

[My Shadow]

MP173

So, is it safe to assume that CN runs bi-directional on Centralia (southbound) and Edgewater cutoff (northbound)?  Crews run Fulton - Centralia/Bluford (still a crew change?).

Ed 

Ed,

CN operates northbounds via Centralia and southbounds via Bluford.  When directional running was initiated, crew changes at Centralia and Bluford ceased -- with a couple exceptions -- and crews began operating Champaign to Fulton.

[samfp1943]

Remove Post/Photo would not show up. :-(

[MP173]

BLS53 - thanks for the current update.

I am still here, just not as active as other activities compete for time.  Plus, this forum is not nearly as interesting as it was 10 years ago.  Lots of great folks have left.

Interesting discussion of operations in Southern Ill.  I passed thru Saturday on return trip from Columbus, Ms.  Drove from Fulton, Ky to Cairo, paralleling the IC Mainline of Midamerica.  No trains were seen, but a couple were stacked up north of Fulton.

Cairo - ghost town.  Wow.

Any idea of train volume on the BNSF?  Sounds like 3-4 loads and similar empties per day.  Interesting routing of UP coal trains, but not that bad.

So, is it safe to assume that CN runs bi-directional on Centralia (southbound) and Edgewater cutoff (northbound)?  Crews run Fulton - Centralia/Bluford (still a crew change?).

My IC branchline (Mattoon - Evansville) is long gone and the B&O St. Louis line is nearly gone.  Only a grain move seems to be in play using the B&O to Olney and IC down to the elevator a couple of miles south.

Cant seem to figure out why CN holds on the DuQuoin - EStL line, unless there are daily Memphis - St. Louis trains...or coal.

Thanks,

Ed

[BLS53]

I was researching something else, and this old thread popped up on Google. Seems anytime, anything is brought up concerning Paducah, MP173 always  has lots of questions. He seems to have been a prolific poster at one point, but doesn't seem to be on here much anymore. 

The primary use of the BNSF Centralia line is PRB coal going to 2 power plants, and 2 barge loaders. The power plants are at Joppa IL and Chiles KY. The barge facilities are on the Ohio River at Metropolis IL, and Grand Rivers KY on the Tennessee River, in the area between Kentucky and Barkley Lakes.

There is also PRB coal that goes east from Paducah on the Paducah & Louisville (former IC Kentucky Division sold off when they divested their east-west lines in the 1980's). This coal connects with the CSX Chicago-Atlanta line at Madisonville KY. Exactly where it goes south of there, I don't know.

The BNSF and UP (former C&EI line) join just south of Marion IL. There is an equal amount of BNSF and UP coal trains, south of this point into KY.

There is one BNSF local that runs from Centralia to Paducah several times a week. It services a couple of manufacturers in Herrin IL, a Honeywell chemical plant in Metropolis, and a lumber yard in Paducah. Also, the PAL often gets cars headed to the southeast, that are interchanged with the CSX.

All the southern IL coal mines along the BNSF have been closed for some time. There is one Peabody mine in Galatia IL that the CN services. That coal is blended with PRB coal at the Metropolis facility and loaded on to barges. The other remaining mines are further north. One is serviced by the Evansville & Western spinoff of the old L&N Evansville-St. Louis line. I think NS services a few others off their St. Louis-Louisville line.

I don't know the current status of the CN DuQuoin line. UP used to use it for their PRB coal south into the Paducah area. There's a connection over to the Edgewood cut-off at Akin IL, and they would take the straight shot into Paducah from there. When CN bought the IC, and instituted directional running on the main and the cut-off, they terminated the agreement with the UP. Since then, the UP takes an inconvenient, long route down their Chester Sub to Gorham IL, and then proceeds northeast to Benton IL (the same line their Texas-Chicago trains take), where it joins their former C&EI route and the BNSF down to the Ohio River.

[MP173]

I dont think CN sold the line. I have talked to some CN folks in Centralia and they couldnt confirm or deny the sale, but knew of the trackage rights.

Where is Gratiot Tower located? I know it is downtown, but not sure of the exact location. What does it protect...the UP and TRRA?

Also, any other towers on the Illinois side?

Next time down to St. Louis I need to find Gratiot and snap a couple shots for the collection.

Have you ever been up to Ridgely in Springfield, Il?

ed

[Anonymous]

MP; Lennox is still there and active. I spend my time around Gratiot Tower, I like the downtown feel but Lennox is a close second.

I take it CN never sold the line?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MoPacFan
Trains on this line have been backing up lately so I know there is more traffic. I would imagine that traffic wouldnt change due to the fact that they just built the byer's siding on this line only within the last year and they are putting new ties in right now.

Um, Byers has been around for a long time. Trains have been backing up, but what facts do you have to state traffic has increased? There has been a lot of maintenance on the line, that may cause some backups. What time period are you comparing for this increase in traffic?

[samfp1943]

Chester:
I found this in a TRAINS search.. I have cut and pasted it, as it is pretty definitive and rather than excerpting it and to avoid misquotes, here it is as cut and pasted. I hope you find all your questions answered, And welcome.
Sam
Trackage and haulage rights
How railroads extend their reach
by Michael W. Blaszak

Because shippers' distribution patterns are rarely congruent with any one rail carrier, railroads have developed two traditional methods of extending their reach over each others' lines.

The first is the joint rate and route. Two railroads, by agreement, establish one rate from an origin on the first to a destination on the second. One of the railroads sends the one bill, the shipper returns one check, and the billing railroad pays the other its share, or "division," of the revenue. Each railroad remains individually responsible for providing locomotive and crews for movement over its lines and for loss and damage to the freight while in its possession.

The second method is trackage rights. Here one railroad (the "tenant" line), by agreement, secures the right to operate its trains, typically with its crews, over the track of a second railroad (the "owner"). The trackage used by both railroads is called a "joint facility."

Trackage rights

In contrast with joint routes and rates, under a trackage-rights agreement, the tenant railroad is solely responsible to the shipper for providing transportation service over the joint facility and for loss and damage to the freight.

The owner is compensated through the tenant's payment of a fixed annual sum for the right to use the joint facility plus a variable fee — based on the proportion of the tenant's traffic relative to the total traffic over the joint facility — to compensate it for track maintenance, train dispatching, and other such expenses.

For accounting simplicity, the majority of recent trackage-rights agreements state the tenant line's charge in terms of cents per car-mile or ton-mile.

Trackage rights can be "full service," meaning that the tenant has the right to serve shippers on the joint facility directly, or "overhead" or "bridge" (the terms are synonymous), meaning that the tenant cannot carry freight to and from the owner's customers. Union Pacific's rights over Burlington Northern Santa Fe's Cajon Pass line are an example of full service trackage rights. The vast majority, however, permit the tenant to move only bridge traffic.

In the current deregulated environment, both methods have their disadvantages. The Staggers Act of 1980 greatly reduced the antitrust immunity that protected competing railroads when setting joint rates, while shippers disliked having to bargain with more than one carrier when negotiating one of the newly permitted transportation contracts. Trackage rights agreements, meanwhile, are regulated by the Surface Transportation Board and thus are matters of public record.

Also, traditional employee protection obligations attach to trackage rights. If the employees of a landlord lose work, or their jobs, because a new tenant takes away traffic, they are entitled by federal law to up to six years' pay.

Haulage rights

To avoid these pitfalls, railroads increasingly have turned to haulage arrangements, which separate a railroad's marketing and operating functions.

The railroad receiving haulage rights gets control of marketing. It negotiates the rate or contract with the customer over the entire route. It also supplies the cars and is on the hook for loss and damage.

The railroad granting the haulage rights, meanwhile, retains direct control over operations. It provides the track, train crews, dispatching services, and sometimes the locomotives. In return, the host railroad gets a cents-per-unit payment for each car moved, but it isn't privy to the haulage road’s deals with the shippers.

Shippers like haulage because it centers responsibility for the whole movement, from origin to destination, on just one railroad. There's no complicated haggling with a chain of carriers when the customer wants to change rates or service.

Railroads like the concept because, under a series of federal and court decisions, haulage has been held to be a commercial arrangement outside the STB's trackage rights jurisdiction. That means host railroad employees don't get labor protection — most of the time, they benefit from the additional traffic the haulage road generates — and the railroads do not have to publicly report the terms of their haulage contracts. Secrecy results in confusion over matters such as the location of interchanges and responsibility for car hire — making haulage a sore point for industry accountants — but railroads understandably don't want to tell all about their market advantages.

Confusion over haulage rights is understandable. Professional railroaders themselves are often befuddled by the multitude, complexity, and variety of the haulage arrangements which have proliferated over the past decade.

Santa Fe's route map from 1994 illustrates how one railroad used the haulage concept to expand its commercial influence from coast to coast. The map shows not just the 7600 route-miles Santa Fe operated directly, but at least that many more miles under haulage arrangements. Santa Fe marketed intermodal service to Boston, New York, and Philadelphia through a haulage agreement with Conrail dating back to 1988. Under a haulage agreement with Grand Trunk Western, Santa Fe provided single-line service for trailer-loads of auto parts moving from manufacturers in Mexico to Ford vehicle assembly plants in Ontario. Another agreement with Gateway Western permitted Santa Fe to quote rates to and from St. Louis. In 1993 Santa Fe commenced service to Memphis and Birmingham via haulage service over Burlington Northern. A haulage agreement also was in effect with the Arizona & California Railroad, a regional carrier spun off by Santa Fe in 1991. Santa Fe even extended the haulage concept to motor carriers, which carried intermodal loads under the Santa Fe banner to points as diverse as Winston-Salem, N.C., and Sacramento, Calif.

Outsiders' confusion over how and where railroads serve their customers isn't likely to end soon, since haulage rights will continue to be a useful tool for addressing the railroads' evolving marketing needs.






This article was reprinted from TRAINS Magazine. From the drama and lore of the great railroads of the past to the power and excitement of today’s industry, TRAINS celebrates railroading with insightful articles and stunning photography. TRAINS also answers questions from readers on all aspects of railroading in a popular column called "Ask TRAINS." So become a subscriber today and get the best of railroading — past and present — in TRAINS Magazine!









09/09/2002









Copyright © 2006 Kalmbach Publishing Co.
All rights reserved.

[Anonymous]

I've been reading on and off but have never this question raised of answered.

What IS the difference between TRACKAGE and HAULAGE rights??

TNX,
Chester Howes

[samfp1943]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AMTK200

Could BNSF be trying to bypass Chicago and transfer More Trains in Memphis or Birginham? SO maybe that's the reason they brought the line.

AMTK200:
Quite possibly, Chicago is definitely a major bottleneck area and long time point for all sorts of delays, Hoiw long ago was it that UP/Cn were in TRAINS as they had accomplished a trackage rights deal to avoid Chicago. And with the delays there in "CREATE" there is probably no relief in sight for a while. Rerouting a new corridore though Memphis might be an alternative, especially on the East side of the Mississippi, and as I suggested the bridge crossing at Memphis has the potential to be problematic, in particular if it should need a major maintenance program.
Sam

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bnsfkline

ROFLMAO! Good move BNSF!

Posts: 712
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Location: St. Louis Area, Florrisant to be specific!!!!!!!!!

ROFLMAO! Good move BNSF!
--------------------
Jim Tiroch

My the Alton and Southern Live forever and Swallow the UP Whole!

The Alton & Southern live forever? How could that be? Both the CNW and Missouri Pacific are extinct. Besides how can you not spell Florissant correctly if you live there? Sorry, I just couldn't resist. [:D]

[Anonymous]

Could BNSF be trying to bypass Chicago and transfer More Trains in Memphis or Birginham? SO maybe that's the reason they brought the line.

[samfp1943]

Guys'
First: welcome SECA and Naniamo73, your input and ideas are appreciated, it's kind of interesting to examine and speculate about what is going on on railroads we are familiar with and interested in.
As I said before this whole trackage rights game is about options and a shell game to get out in front of competition, It might be that the BNSF might be also looking for a new corridor FROM the South and Southeast to go North up the IC/CN. Coal is also mined and shipped from the Birmingham area, although not in the PRB coal volumn. BNSF already has a large infrastructure in Memphis, I am not sure what the current volumn is against lines capacity, maybe they are looking at a way around that? The MIssissippi River Bridge is a choke point if it becomes a problem, as it is old. As for the IC/CN Interlocker, all East- West [BNSF,UP] and North- South[IC] is controlled by it, and could really become a point of mischief if the BNSF wanted to give UP pains, at Memphis.
Something else to think about
Thanks,
Sam

[MP173]

Seca:

Lurk no more! An extra set of eyes and ears are always welcomed. I really appreciate the info.

Is Lenox Tower still in service? That is really a great spot. Every time I go to St. Louis (except when the lovely and talented girlfriend, soon be wife is with me) I stop and check out the action. Not many towers left in the St. Louis area.

There has been nothing announced about the Duquoin sale, only rumors. The only thing I can think of, based on your insite regarding the St. Louis routing would be to keep UP from hauling the PRC thru St. Louis on the CN line. Quite a game of chess, if that is it.

They would have the preferred routing on that traffic to Paducah...maybe they already do have the preferred route, dont know, only scratching my head on this.

ed

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73

Seca
This is on BNSF's website;

QUOTE: BNSF will obtain trackage rights on CN’s main lines between Memphis and southern Illinois. CN will also transfer its Memphis interlocker to BNSF.

QUOTE: Matthew K. Rose, BNSF’s chairman, president and chief executive officer, said, "These agreements provide BNSF with increased capacity and dispatching efficiencies in Chicago and Memphis. In addition, we now can tap CN’s surplus capacity between Memphis and Centralia, Ill., to expand our ability to handle more traffic."

This would make sense, as IC Grain from Iowa use this route Iowa-GAL-Beardstown-Centralia-IC South. BNSF freights from Memphis would make perfect sense doing the same. Buying the Du Quoin line would not.

[Anonymous]

Your welcome MP,
Its very odd to me as well!
1/2) yes coal is coming from the west for few powerplants to the south and for transloading, there was a move of ILL coal from Virden to Dunfermine, but I think the KJRY-UP might have took this away. But ILL coal is making a strong come back so it wouldn't surpise me if there was.
3)Yes its the old NYC, UP Pana sub, at Toland; I know a Manifest comes off this with alot of Busch traffic and ore trains to Granite city.
4)I'm not sure of limits, I know UP was thinking of getting rid of the pana Sub but that was awhile ago and nothing came of it.
5)The NW to SE routing wouldn't have to cross any of the bridges just rights across TRRA from North Market to Grand Avenue in ST. Louis. But I have also heard that it costs alot to ship threw St. Louis. Du Quoin sale would require them to use alot of TRRA trackage and rights over KCS.
6)the shuttle loaders are both at Lowder north of Virden. It goes to Galesburg then Texas. The trains CN sends to Peoria are going AE Staley in Decatur. The ones going down the beardstown line come off the line at centralia for export @ mound city, New Orleans, etc.
7)The UP thing was a couple of years ago, when it seemed CSX was going to dump that line in favor of the old pennsy main.
Thanks for the welcome I'm more of a lurker here and I grew up in St. Louis, living just outside the ST.L now.

[nanaimo73]

Seca
This is on BNSF's website;

QUOTE: BNSF will obtain trackage rights on CN’s main lines between Memphis and southern Illinois. CN will also transfer its Memphis interlocker to BNSF.

QUOTE: Matthew K. Rose, BNSF’s chairman, president and chief executive officer, said, "These agreements provide BNSF with increased capacity and dispatching efficiencies in Chicago and Memphis. In addition, we now can tap CN’s surplus capacity between Memphis and Centralia, Ill., to expand our ability to handle more traffic."

[MP173]

Seca:

Thanks for your input. I am sitting a few hundreds miles away not at all familiar with the local conditions and trying to connect the dots on the map. Sounds as if Beardstown line is pretty busy, or at least can be on given days. A few questions, if you dont mind:

1. Is the coal traffic on the line mainly eastbound out of Powder River? Is it mainly destined for Paducah for transloading?

2. Back in the 70's, when I lived in Southern Illinois, there seemed to be some coal coming up the line from Southern Illlinois, northbound, if you will. Is there any of that moving, or has that gone away?

3. I was aware that BNSF accessed St. Louis on the line via trackage rights, but was unaware of the routing. I assume that it connects with the UP line south of Litchfield, or what was the old New York Central line....correct? Terra Server indicates a connection.

4. Does anyone know if there is a limit of number of trains on that trackage rights? That might be a reason for this movement by BNSF.

5. I am not forgetting about the lines to Memphis via Springfield and St. Louis. These were the old Frisco routes. When I look at the BNSF map, it makes sense to me that they could marshal a considerable amount of traffic from the Northwest thru Minneapolis/St Paul for the Southeast, which now has to go thru St. Louis. It used to be that St. Louis was very expensive to go thru, due to the terminal railroads which control the bridges and routings. If that is still so, the bypass theory might be in play. Just a hunch.

The Duquoin line sale just seems odd to me. But then again, I dont know their traffic patterns.

6. Where are the shuttle elevator operations on the line? Could it be they are looking to send the grain south? It has to go north at this time doesnt it? Does CN run their grain trains to Peoria on the BNSF or all the way to Centralia?

7. UP interested in the B&O line? Wow. I grew up on that line near Olney and it seems to be making a comeback these days, with quite a bit of coal traffic. Glad that didnt bite the dust as was rumored years ago.

Thanks, Seca for the input and welcome aboard. Where are you from?

ed

[Anonymous]

I hate to be the only one, but I think this isn't true, its not worth it and if it is, well its a waste of money.
1) BNSF already gets into STL via Beardstown line over UP @toland. Ore trains,GAL-STL manifest. My count on the beardstown line was about 3-8 coal trains, 2 manifests, a local, unit grain trains(2 shuttle loaders online), a ore train, and IC grain trains from Iowa. The line is pretty good shape, but Galesburg is the problem with congestion.
2) Is everyone forgetting they have a line direct to Memphis from Springfield and STL, MO and if they acquired this line it would run parallel with the Beardstown line, with little to no traffic?!? It would put BN in DuQuion, when they already make it outside of Paducah on their own rails. There's no advantage
3) the only line I heard UP was interested in was the old B&O, for coal traffic east.
4) This isn't IC anymore, I don't think CN will sell any lines that would radiate from a major hub.

[samfp1943]

ed:
Sounds like they might be considering a St Louis bypass, it would be pretty clean to run the unit trains and save them going through St. Louis. Having lived in the Memphis area for most of my life, I grew up watching trains there. The connection from southbound IC/CN would be doable with some track modifications, around the area of the Yale Yard, the track snakes off the IC/Cn by pass as almost an industrial siding, through a couple of businesses and a junk yard, It would be slow and probably an expensive fix to improve it. In the downtown area south of Central Station, there is probably a good connection, the problem with that is that going southbound on the IC/CN there is a heck of a grade along the Riverside Drive area. It would possibly be a helper situation for a heavy freight{?]. The City trolley tracks now occupy what was part of the double IC main in that area. Amtrak also goes thru there north and south.
Which is why I thought if they could get trackage rights down the Centralia to Jackson, Tn they could work back to the Memphis/Birmingham mainline east of Memphis, the potential there is to continue down the GM&O/IC/CN toward the Gulf Coast or turn Southeast, Amory, Ms. is[ or was?] the division point south east of Memphis. These connections might be trackage rights or some other negotiated arrangement. I am not sure of the Jackson,Tn/Grand Junction, Tn onto the old Mississippi Central to Holly Springs,Ms. It was still in use a couple of years ago. That could connect with the Memphis,Birmingham mainline at Holly Springs, and there is your Memphis bypass.
Again, it all becomes a question of options available to create new corridors, and dare I to mention it but [ a merger?] or some kind of a new business alliance.
Whaever shakes out the guys who follow BNSF and the IC/CN should have alot to talk about.
Sam

[MP173]

Sam:

I have no knowledge south of Memphis, other than looking at maps or terraserver, so I cannot comment on operations. Here is what I do know.

Back during the 90's I travelled quite a bit in Illinois in sales and the Beardstown line always intrigued me, probably as I spent the night at Beardstown and ended up in the yard talking to a clerk all evening about things on the BN.

My guess is they run 2 -3 coal trains per day on the line. I also know there is some industry on the line so either they run manifests or locals. The Beardstown Yard always has quite a bit of power and cars there. The track seems to be in decent shape (has to be to take the pounding of coal trains), but there is very limited signalling. It is a track warrent system, with switches left open as trains depart sidings. Still, I think there is capacity to run trains, quite a few trains on this line.

so, BNSF looks at the north - south operations, say Twin Cities to Memphis, actually this would entail traffic to and from the Northwest to Southeast and looks at the bottlenecks and sees ST. LOUIS.

Bypassing St. Louis would indeed solve a lot of problems. I would guess current traffic to and from the Southeast goes via Galesburg, West Quincy, down the river to St.L, then down the Frisco to Memphis for beyond.

By taking the Beardstown line to Centralia they bypass St. Louis which has to save at least a day. I am wondering tho about the comment of using the Duquoin line to run the St. Louis trains. I dont know enough about the operations to comment on that.

CN would probably have capacity on the Centralia to Fulton part of the line, beyond that, I am not sure.

ed

[samfp1943]

ed: I do not think that there is much train frequency on the Galena, Beardstown, Centralia line now. Do you know how many trains a day, or week operate that way, what are track conditions? Centrailia to St. Louis I suspect is probably a medium frequency? Of course they would access at St. Louis the Frisco Mississippi River line, There are some heavy industries that still populate it south of St Louis, the Aluminum plant southeast of Sikeston and the branch from Blytheville to the Armorel Ark area, steel mini milll and several other steel related activities out there. Then down to where it ties back into the Thayer sub and on into Memphis. If BNSF gets or excercises trackage rights over IC/CN from Centralia to Memphis, where track speeds are probably much faster, they would have to contend with the CN traffic, which could be a problem, on into Memphis. The problem in Memphis would be the track connection from IC/Cn to BNSF, that could be a real bottleneck for thru traffic off the IC' s easte side freight bypass, to go east bound would be problematic due to local track routings. Down the Passenger line into downtown, the route Amtrak uses, there is a heavy grade southbound and then through the Central Station platform, but they could turn east south of the station onto BNSF rails. IC/Cn would be a problem at Memphis coming from the north for BNSF.
I think it will be interesting to watch and see what develops on this.
Sam

[MP173]

Talked to a person at CN today, actually on the old IC portion. I asked him about the Duquoin sale and he indicated that it looks as if BNSF will buy it, that it hasnt been done yet. His reasoning was a bit different than what we have considered.

The Duquoin line will provide a route into St. Louis from Galesburg, that they will run trains down the Beardstown line to Centralia then to Duquoin and backdoor into St. Louis. When I mentioned the Galesburg to Memphis bypass via the CN, he thought that would also work, but he hadnt considered that.

ed

[samfp1943]

Another aspect to this discussion could be that with another hurricane season coming on it might give the BNSF a longer company haul to move Northwestern lumber resources into the Southeastern markets, and with the way grain movements are in the PNW could that be another option to move grain for BNSF. Make St. Louis another gateway to the South and Southeast?

[samfp1943]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173

Do you think most of the trackage rights are set up with a limited number of trains, such as "4 or less a day"? Also, I wonder what kind of revenue it generates. It starts moving a bit closer to Dave's call for open access...

Not exactly there, but at least a small opening.

ed

ed:
I am still convinced that options for the Grantor Railroad, as well as what the Grantee Railroad is able to negotiate is where the next area of growth will be, in particular, if the STB squelches more mergers. The Use and Volumn will be what each party is able to negotiate at the bargaining table. Dave and some others here probably would come closer to being able to pin numbers [read:$$$$$$] to the actual rights asked and granted. I would think that at this stage, when the "options card" is played, anything will be open to negotiations at that point when new corridors are being discussed, even that " open acess" option; "and once the elephant has its' trunk under the tent", who knows? I think the near future will be very interesting and generate lots of back and forth in this Forum. Especially, as the RR Corps' seek advantages over their competition.
Sam

[MP173]

Do you think most of the trackage rights are set up with a limited number of trains, such as "4 or less a day"? Also, I wonder what kind of revenue it generates. It starts moving a bit closer to Dave's call for open access...

Not exactly there, but at least a small opening.

ed

[samfp1943]

Sounds like,by the tone of the last few contributions to this thread, we are all on the same wave length..If the STB stops any hope of new mergers, it force new ideas to be used to create competition and check the moves of rivals..That pretty much, seems to throw everything into the options area, via new trackage rights, creative alliances and new traffic corridors.. Should be very interesting to see how it all shakes out.
Sam