NEWS: BNSF buys the Du Quoin-St. Louis line from CN

[emd_SD_60]

Got this from a Yahoo group I am a member of...

"BNSF is purchasing the St. Louis Subdivision from Canadian
National. This is the former Illinois Central line from DuQuoin to
East St. Louis.

Word is that Union Pacific was interested in buying the line, and
things had progressed to the point that UP executives had looked the
line over and crews were being trained to work the line.

BNSF apparently bought the line out from under UP. Along with the
sale, BNSF gains trackage rights over the Centralia, Cairo and
Fulton Subdivisions to reach Memphis, Tennessee. Word is that this
will add four trains to the route, presumably two each way.

My conductor and I confirmed this last night while we were marking
up with the CN dispatcher in Greenwood, MS, while preparing to come
north on Amtrak train 58. The dispatcher said that CN has already
published abolishing a crew caller's job in connection with the line
changing hands. This will be happening shortly if that the job is
abolished as the handover occurs.

I have heard no reason for the BNSF acquiring the line, though I
wonder if it may be partially to protect coal traffic on BNSF's
former CB&Q line south of Centralia. Had UP bought the line, UP
would have gained a potential advantage in competing for that
traffic.

There is no word on what will become of the UP runthrough coal
traffic that makes up most of the traffic on the route at this time,
though with recent Surface Transportation Board policy protecting
competition I would guess that the continuing of the arrangement was
written into the sale.

This is not the first time a line sale added foreign trains to the
Centralia and Cairo Subdivisions. In 1988, the Illinois Central
Gulf sold the line from Fulton, KY, to Birmingham, AL, to Norfolk
Southern.

NS trains 123 southbound and 124 northbound travelled the route from
Fulton to Centralia on a daily basis from that time until around
1993 or 1994. At that time the trains were switched over to an all
NS route over the former Southern Railway line from Louisville to
St. Louis. Reports stated NS was fed up with being treated as a
second class citizen by IC dispatchers."

Scott McPherson

[bnsfkline]

ROFLMAO! Good move BNSF!

[joegreen]

I bet BNSF just wanted **** UP off, along with some extra cash earned on the side...............GOOD MOVE!!!!!!!!! [:D]

[Anonymous]

Smart move by BNSF to buy the line.

[MP173]

Scott:

Great report. Thanks. A couple of questions, if you dont mind. What was CN's traffic level on the line? I would guess perhaps one manifest daily each way, or was there also an intermodal? How many UP coal trains ran on the line daily (on average)? Where does most of the UP coal trains go? To Paducah to be transloaed? If so, does that mean BNSF will pretty much control that movement? They can now run the traffic single line, cant they?

Does this purchase/trackage rights mean the downgrading or end to the old Frisco mainline from St. Louis to Memphis? I would think the IC routing would be a preferred route over the Frisco route. Also, by gaining trackage rights at Centralia, they can move Galesburg - Memphis trains away from St. Louis.

How much coal does BN tote out of Southern Illinois? It has been years since I have been down there...grew up near Olney.

Thanks for the info, and hopefully you can answer my questions.

ed

[emd_SD_60]

I was talking with someone who works for the CN and the BNSF trains ought to start rolling at the end of March.[:)]

[Anonymous]

Ouch!

[MoPacFan]

"Does this purchase/trackage rights mean the downgrading or end to the old Frisco mainline from St. Louis to Memphis?"

I am wondering the same thing myself. I sure hope not, this is a really fun line to watch and is only 5 minutes from my house.

Trains on this line have been backing up lately so I know there is more traffic. I would imagine that traffic wouldnt change due to the fact that they just built the byer's siding on this line only within the last year and they are putting new ties in right now.

[MoPacFan]

"Does this purchase/trackage rights mean the downgrading or end to the old Frisco mainline from St. Louis to Memphis?"

I am wondering the same thing myself. I sure hope not, this is a really fun line to watch and is only 5 minutes from my house.

Trains on this line have been backing up lately so I know there is more traffic. I would imagine that traffic wouldnt change due to the fact that they just built the byer's siding on this line only within the last year and they are putting new ties in right now.

[MoPacFan]

I meant to say that the Byer's siding has been built within the last FEW years.

[samfp1943]

CN and BNSF Railway Announce Agreement To Increase Network Fluidity and Infrastructure Capacity
MONTREAL and FORT WORTH, Tex., Jan. 19, 2006:
CN and BNSF Railway Company announced today an agreement focused on improving rail network fluidity and infrastructure capacity, principally in Vancouver, B.C., Chicago, and between Memphis and southern Illinois.

The agreement includes track and rail infrastructure exchanges between the railroads, and CN’s grant of trackage, haulage and other access rights to BNSF Railway.Highlights of the agreement are:

In Vancouver, B.C., CN will obtain operational, dispatching and maintenance control of 12 miles of joint track between the Fraser River Bridge in New Westminster, B.C., and ocean terminals on the south shore of Burrard Inlet near downtown Vancouver. This trackage also connects CN’s network with its north shore terminals, customers and the former BC Rail.
In Chicago, BNSF will obtain operational, dispatching and maintenance control of CN’s Corwith Tower interlocker, and obtain trackage rights on CN for 30 miles between Corwith and Joliet, Ill., and on two miles of CN’s 49th Street line.
BNSF will obtain trackage rights on CN’s main lines between Memphis and southern Illinois. CN will also transfer its Memphis interlocker to BNSF. Matthew K. Rose, BNSF’s chairman, president and chief executive officer, said, "These agreements provide BNSF with increased capacity and dispatching efficiencies in Chicago and Memphis. In addition, we now can tap CN’s surplus capacity between Memphis and Centralia, Ill., to expand our ability to handle more traffic."
E. Hunter Harrison, CN’s president and chief executive officer, said:
This is a cut and paste from the BNSF's web site, and I thought that it might shed a little more light on where the BNSF might be heading with this purchase from St.Louis to DuQuoin, Il.. Looks like they are/or could be setting up for a new gateway into the southeast, by accessing the CN at this area. The Centralia/Jackson, Tn line might be an option for trackage rights which brings them pretty close to a St. Louis to New Albany, Ms. connection or even a St. Louis/ Holly Springs, Ms connection[via the old Miss Central line from Jackson,Tn to Holly Sprngs,Ms] which ties into the BNSF Memphis/Birmingham main line.. could give them a shorter run to the southeast to Atlanta from the North west.. Lots of options open up with the potential connections that the CN/BNSF cooperation opens up.
Just my thoughts,
Sam

[MP173]

Sam:

Thanks for the info. In the release I did not see that they purchased the St. Louis - Duquoin line. Did they in fact purchase that line?

Also, i find it very interesting that they now have control of the CN line from Corwith to Joliet. Hmmmm. Looking at Terra Server at Corwith there is not a direct turnout from the CN to Corwith Yard, but there is a turnout from Corwith heading east into Chicago. Which means, they will probably build a new one.

Ok, this Joliet - Corwith gives them tremendous operational flexibility, essentially turning the Corwith Joliet into a 4 track main, subject of course to restrictions on the trackage rights and CN's dispatching. I do not think the line is currently used anywhere near capacity. It seems like a pretty good stretch of railroad - double track.

It seems BNSF and CN are setting up some coordinated routings that should benefit both and also give local control to the carrier that has the greatest need, such as at Corwith and Memphis.

I need to get a map out and look at the macro view of these to get a better handle of the Northwest - Southeast pattern.

ed

[samfp1943]

MP173.
.According to the first post in this, by emd_SD_60 there was a purchase, and in the post from the BNSF you could get the understanding that it was a senario of trackage right grants plus the necessary infrastructure upgrade to do what ever they intend to do with it.. so I guess for now it is whatever the individual want to read into those aspects..[%-)]
My point in bringing up my response is that there are a number of options available to the BNSF that would give them a shorter run into the Southeast by a diagonal route through the DuQuoin, Il area. And it could conceivably be a way for the BNSF to gain some advantage[ not to mention shorter route miles] over the KCS/NS route through Meridian, Ms/Shreveport.La. trackage agreement to the southeast . Certanily, it will bear some watching, for a potentially new routing arrangement.. Who knows how it will turn out, if at all? But interesting to speculate.
The Memphis /Corwith conection is anybody's guess. The UP completed their huge Intermodal facility about 5 yr ago, West of the Marion. Ark area and the BNSF has not only the Tennessee Yard {former Frisco, but the Yale Yd In Memphis, the Harvard Yard at Marion Ark, now utilized as an adjunct Intermodal facility with Tennesse Yard facilities] and the CN has the large Johnson Yard facilities [former Illinois Central] and there was some talk of the IC?CN building a strictly Intermodal facility adjacent to the JOhnson Yard in the Insley Bottoms area of the Rivergate Industrial Park, do not know if that happened? But surely the Combination of CN/BNSF, in particular, through the mid america corridor seems to be popping with opportunities to create new routes and corridors. As I said it will bear watching for those interested in those areas. Especially in the light of the previous discussions of trying to get around the Chicago Bottlenecks.
Sam

[MP173]

Sam:

Thanks for the clarification. I agree there wasnt anything in the release about the sale of the Duquoin line.

I dont know how much traffic moves from the Northwest to the Southeast, I would guess there is some, nor do I know if there is much from Twin Cities down thru Memphis. My guess is there is a possibility of intermodal moving from PNW to the Southeast, particularly as the ports at Long Beach become more and more crowded.

With the BNSF and CN crossing at Centralia, they could shoot their Galesburg - Memphis freight down the Beardstown line to CN at Centralia and then to Memphis. That would appear, at least on paper, a superior routing than Galesburg - St. Louis then down the old Frisco River line to Memphis.

I keep thinking that the Beardstown line (Galesburg to Paducah) which now handles coal and perhaps a manifest train would be a great way to skip past not only Chicago but St. Louis.

Just thinking out loud.

ed

[samfp1943]

ed.. As I said the options are what makes this area worth watching.. BY tying into the Memphis/Birmingham main [the former Frisco] at a point East of Memphis [ as mentioned from Jackson, Tn to either Holly Springs, Ms [via either a route purchase or trackage rights] or to go down the former GM&O to Corinth,Ms. or even to the division point at Amory,Ms. Even though the BNSF tracks end in Birming ham and Montgomery, they could utilize trackage rights on into Southeast ports. I think it is all about options now, where BNSF is concerned in their races with the other Class 1's.
Sam

[MP173]

Sam:

I think you are correct. Since the STB is not going to allow mergers (for awhile) there may be a ru***o fill in the map with trackage rights and outright purchases of certain lines.

The CN / BNSF deal seems that way. Ok, we will give you control of Vancouver in exchange for capacity in Chicago and trackage rights into Memphis. CN gets what it wants, BNSF gets what it wants and CN fills in on under utilized trackage. Smart business.

ed

[Anonymous]

I think this is only the 1st of many moves similar to this one.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AMTK200

I think this is only the 1st of many moves similar to this one.

Only a Prelude to the next (perhaps the last) act in the merger game; Early motions for market advantage, economy of movement, geographical reach, closeness to friendly connections (read future partners), Maximization of traffic on a given route(s), flexability on shared track and rights, and exposure to open and growing markets. The fat lady's not warming up yet but you can bet she is at the stage door.

[samfp1943]

Sounds like,by the tone of the last few contributions to this thread, we are all on the same wave length..If the STB stops any hope of new mergers, it force new ideas to be used to create competition and check the moves of rivals..That pretty much, seems to throw everything into the options area, via new trackage rights, creative alliances and new traffic corridors.. Should be very interesting to see how it all shakes out.
Sam

[MP173]

Do you think most of the trackage rights are set up with a limited number of trains, such as "4 or less a day"? Also, I wonder what kind of revenue it generates. It starts moving a bit closer to Dave's call for open access...

Not exactly there, but at least a small opening.

ed

[samfp1943]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173

Do you think most of the trackage rights are set up with a limited number of trains, such as "4 or less a day"? Also, I wonder what kind of revenue it generates. It starts moving a bit closer to Dave's call for open access...

Not exactly there, but at least a small opening.

ed

ed:
I am still convinced that options for the Grantor Railroad, as well as what the Grantee Railroad is able to negotiate is where the next area of growth will be, in particular, if the STB squelches more mergers. The Use and Volumn will be what each party is able to negotiate at the bargaining table. Dave and some others here probably would come closer to being able to pin numbers [read:$$$$$$] to the actual rights asked and granted. I would think that at this stage, when the "options card" is played, anything will be open to negotiations at that point when new corridors are being discussed, even that " open acess" option; "and once the elephant has its' trunk under the tent", who knows? I think the near future will be very interesting and generate lots of back and forth in this Forum. Especially, as the RR Corps' seek advantages over their competition.
Sam

[samfp1943]

Another aspect to this discussion could be that with another hurricane season coming on it might give the BNSF a longer company haul to move Northwestern lumber resources into the Southeastern markets, and with the way grain movements are in the PNW could that be another option to move grain for BNSF. Make St. Louis another gateway to the South and Southeast?

[MP173]

Talked to a person at CN today, actually on the old IC portion. I asked him about the Duquoin sale and he indicated that it looks as if BNSF will buy it, that it hasnt been done yet. His reasoning was a bit different than what we have considered.

The Duquoin line will provide a route into St. Louis from Galesburg, that they will run trains down the Beardstown line to Centralia then to Duquoin and backdoor into St. Louis. When I mentioned the Galesburg to Memphis bypass via the CN, he thought that would also work, but he hadnt considered that.

ed

[samfp1943]

ed: I do not think that there is much train frequency on the Galena, Beardstown, Centralia line now. Do you know how many trains a day, or week operate that way, what are track conditions? Centrailia to St. Louis I suspect is probably a medium frequency? Of course they would access at St. Louis the Frisco Mississippi River line, There are some heavy industries that still populate it south of St Louis, the Aluminum plant southeast of Sikeston and the branch from Blytheville to the Armorel Ark area, steel mini milll and several other steel related activities out there. Then down to where it ties back into the Thayer sub and on into Memphis. If BNSF gets or excercises trackage rights over IC/CN from Centralia to Memphis, where track speeds are probably much faster, they would have to contend with the CN traffic, which could be a problem, on into Memphis. The problem in Memphis would be the track connection from IC/Cn to BNSF, that could be a real bottleneck for thru traffic off the IC' s easte side freight bypass, to go east bound would be problematic due to local track routings. Down the Passenger line into downtown, the route Amtrak uses, there is a heavy grade southbound and then through the Central Station platform, but they could turn east south of the station onto BNSF rails. IC/Cn would be a problem at Memphis coming from the north for BNSF.
I think it will be interesting to watch and see what develops on this.
Sam

[MP173]

Sam:

I have no knowledge south of Memphis, other than looking at maps or terraserver, so I cannot comment on operations. Here is what I do know.

Back during the 90's I travelled quite a bit in Illinois in sales and the Beardstown line always intrigued me, probably as I spent the night at Beardstown and ended up in the yard talking to a clerk all evening about things on the BN.

My guess is they run 2 -3 coal trains per day on the line. I also know there is some industry on the line so either they run manifests or locals. The Beardstown Yard always has quite a bit of power and cars there. The track seems to be in decent shape (has to be to take the pounding of coal trains), but there is very limited signalling. It is a track warrent system, with switches left open as trains depart sidings. Still, I think there is capacity to run trains, quite a few trains on this line.

so, BNSF looks at the north - south operations, say Twin Cities to Memphis, actually this would entail traffic to and from the Northwest to Southeast and looks at the bottlenecks and sees ST. LOUIS.

Bypassing St. Louis would indeed solve a lot of problems. I would guess current traffic to and from the Southeast goes via Galesburg, West Quincy, down the river to St.L, then down the Frisco to Memphis for beyond.

By taking the Beardstown line to Centralia they bypass St. Louis which has to save at least a day. I am wondering tho about the comment of using the Duquoin line to run the St. Louis trains. I dont know enough about the operations to comment on that.

CN would probably have capacity on the Centralia to Fulton part of the line, beyond that, I am not sure.

ed

[samfp1943]

ed:
Sounds like they might be considering a St Louis bypass, it would be pretty clean to run the unit trains and save them going through St. Louis. Having lived in the Memphis area for most of my life, I grew up watching trains there. The connection from southbound IC/CN would be doable with some track modifications, around the area of the Yale Yard, the track snakes off the IC/Cn by pass as almost an industrial siding, through a couple of businesses and a junk yard, It would be slow and probably an expensive fix to improve it. In the downtown area south of Central Station, there is probably a good connection, the problem with that is that going southbound on the IC/CN there is a heck of a grade along the Riverside Drive area. It would possibly be a helper situation for a heavy freight{?]. The City trolley tracks now occupy what was part of the double IC main in that area. Amtrak also goes thru there north and south.
Which is why I thought if they could get trackage rights down the Centralia to Jackson, Tn they could work back to the Memphis/Birmingham mainline east of Memphis, the potential there is to continue down the GM&O/IC/CN toward the Gulf Coast or turn Southeast, Amory, Ms. is[ or was?] the division point south east of Memphis. These connections might be trackage rights or some other negotiated arrangement. I am not sure of the Jackson,Tn/Grand Junction, Tn onto the old Mississippi Central to Holly Springs,Ms. It was still in use a couple of years ago. That could connect with the Memphis,Birmingham mainline at Holly Springs, and there is your Memphis bypass.
Again, it all becomes a question of options available to create new corridors, and dare I to mention it but [ a merger?] or some kind of a new business alliance.
Whaever shakes out the guys who follow BNSF and the IC/CN should have alot to talk about.
Sam

[Anonymous]

I hate to be the only one, but I think this isn't true, its not worth it and if it is, well its a waste of money.
1) BNSF already gets into STL via Beardstown line over UP @toland. Ore trains,GAL-STL manifest. My count on the beardstown line was about 3-8 coal trains, 2 manifests, a local, unit grain trains(2 shuttle loaders online), a ore train, and IC grain trains from Iowa. The line is pretty good shape, but Galesburg is the problem with congestion.
2) Is everyone forgetting they have a line direct to Memphis from Springfield and STL, MO and if they acquired this line it would run parallel with the Beardstown line, with little to no traffic?!? It would put BN in DuQuion, when they already make it outside of Paducah on their own rails. There's no advantage
3) the only line I heard UP was interested in was the old B&O, for coal traffic east.
4) This isn't IC anymore, I don't think CN will sell any lines that would radiate from a major hub.

[MP173]

Seca:

Thanks for your input. I am sitting a few hundreds miles away not at all familiar with the local conditions and trying to connect the dots on the map. Sounds as if Beardstown line is pretty busy, or at least can be on given days. A few questions, if you dont mind:

1. Is the coal traffic on the line mainly eastbound out of Powder River? Is it mainly destined for Paducah for transloading?

2. Back in the 70's, when I lived in Southern Illinois, there seemed to be some coal coming up the line from Southern Illlinois, northbound, if you will. Is there any of that moving, or has that gone away?

3. I was aware that BNSF accessed St. Louis on the line via trackage rights, but was unaware of the routing. I assume that it connects with the UP line south of Litchfield, or what was the old New York Central line....correct? Terra Server indicates a connection.

4. Does anyone know if there is a limit of number of trains on that trackage rights? That might be a reason for this movement by BNSF.

5. I am not forgetting about the lines to Memphis via Springfield and St. Louis. These were the old Frisco routes. When I look at the BNSF map, it makes sense to me that they could marshal a considerable amount of traffic from the Northwest thru Minneapolis/St Paul for the Southeast, which now has to go thru St. Louis. It used to be that St. Louis was very expensive to go thru, due to the terminal railroads which control the bridges and routings. If that is still so, the bypass theory might be in play. Just a hunch.

The Duquoin line sale just seems odd to me. But then again, I dont know their traffic patterns.

6. Where are the shuttle elevator operations on the line? Could it be they are looking to send the grain south? It has to go north at this time doesnt it? Does CN run their grain trains to Peoria on the BNSF or all the way to Centralia?

7. UP interested in the B&O line? Wow. I grew up on that line near Olney and it seems to be making a comeback these days, with quite a bit of coal traffic. Glad that didnt bite the dust as was rumored years ago.

Thanks, Seca for the input and welcome aboard. Where are you from?

ed

[nanaimo73]

Seca
This is on BNSF's website;

QUOTE: BNSF will obtain trackage rights on CN’s main lines between Memphis and southern Illinois. CN will also transfer its Memphis interlocker to BNSF.

QUOTE: Matthew K. Rose, BNSF’s chairman, president and chief executive officer, said, "These agreements provide BNSF with increased capacity and dispatching efficiencies in Chicago and Memphis. In addition, we now can tap CN’s surplus capacity between Memphis and Centralia, Ill., to expand our ability to handle more traffic."

[Anonymous]

Your welcome MP,
Its very odd to me as well!
1/2) yes coal is coming from the west for few powerplants to the south and for transloading, there was a move of ILL coal from Virden to Dunfermine, but I think the KJRY-UP might have took this away. But ILL coal is making a strong come back so it wouldn't surpise me if there was.
3)Yes its the old NYC, UP Pana sub, at Toland; I know a Manifest comes off this with alot of Busch traffic and ore trains to Granite city.
4)I'm not sure of limits, I know UP was thinking of getting rid of the pana Sub but that was awhile ago and nothing came of it.
5)The NW to SE routing wouldn't have to cross any of the bridges just rights across TRRA from North Market to Grand Avenue in ST. Louis. But I have also heard that it costs alot to ship threw St. Louis. Du Quoin sale would require them to use alot of TRRA trackage and rights over KCS.
6)the shuttle loaders are both at Lowder north of Virden. It goes to Galesburg then Texas. The trains CN sends to Peoria are going AE Staley in Decatur. The ones going down the beardstown line come off the line at centralia for export @ mound city, New Orleans, etc.
7)The UP thing was a couple of years ago, when it seemed CSX was going to dump that line in favor of the old pennsy main.
Thanks for the welcome I'm more of a lurker here and I grew up in St. Louis, living just outside the ST.L now.