Amtrak train stuck for 20 hours

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ralphm

I don't see many people laying the responsibility for some of this disaster where it belongs, namly CSX and its dispatching- that train didn't leave JAX without the approval of CSX and its dispatchers who should have known the time it was going to take to clear the wreck. (Unless they were being BS'd too by those on site- I have seen that happen, also). I can only assume that there were a dozen or more freights backing up behine #98, too. Mr. Ward has sure been quiet about all of this. He is the one that should be out front apologizing.

This sounds very plausible to me. If I were Amtrak, I'd defer comment on these matters to CSX and let that speak for itself.

There really weren't any good detour possibilities, but CSX and Amtrak's coordination of effort during this event was appalling.

[nemisis]

Now here's a question for those of you who know the routes in North Florida and Georgia better than I do. For the 6 hours we were stuck in Jacksonville BNSF freights kept rolling by the whole time. Where did they go? They weren't in front of us at the derailment site. Did they take a turnoff before Savannah?

[narig01]

Re Amtrak Union Opposses Subway
Remember a Subway is generally underground. Not a good way to describe your service.
Ian G.Narita

[RudyRockvilleMD]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

BRING BACK DAVID GUNN


THIS FAILURE IS MINETA'S FAULT AND NO ONE ELSES.

Why is this Secretary Minetta's Fault? Please explain!

[RRCharlie]

My wife and I came south through Savannah, GA on New Years Eve morning, about two hours late. The derailment was just south of the station in Savannah and may have originally damaged the switches going into the station and the track from there south to Jacksonville is single track and out in the woods. The only way to have moved the train would have been to back it up oddles of miles to Jacksonville or have CSX send a rescue unit to pull it back. I would expect that was probably not possible because of CSX freights backed up behind the Silver Meteor with no place to go as well.

[cnw4001]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nemisis

I was on the northbound 92 train stuck right beside the 98. Amtraks response to this was a bad joke

I can't believe I paid to be mistreated like this. Amtrak has no regard for the welfare of its passengers and crew. It was a definite attitude of "We got you money so screw you!". This is definitely my last experience with long distance passenger rail!

First, thanks for the post and don't be a stranger in the forums.

The more I read about this in various sources the more obvious it becomes that like it or not, Amtrak is indeed in free fall and unless something happens soon those who want to eliminate it will be able to have their way with little or no opposition.

[Modelcar]

...It is beyond me why some provisions can't be make regarding contractual agreements regarding crew....during the times of emergency....Re: {The 3 1/2 hr. delay after having had a major delay before....for new crew}.....

[nemisis]

I was on the northbound 92 train stuck right beside the 98. Amtraks response to this was a bad joke. We were stuck in the Jacksonville station for 6 hours and then moved to the middle of a swamp in Georgia for another 10 hours. No one allowed off the train, no food, no explanation.

I do have to say, the wreck site was pretty spectacular. There were mangled rails, splintered ties and wrecked cars all over the place.

Then after finally making it through the wreck site we were stopped again because the crew ran out of time and we had to wait for another 3 1/2 hours for a relief crew. Now why couldn't Amtrak management calculate that the crew was running out of time and have a relief crew ready when we got there? They only had 16 hours to get this accomplished. Then we ran out of water which meant the bathrooms stopped working. We had 1 working bathroom for 250 people for a 5 hour period. We were not allowed off the train at any of the station stops, yelled at very nastily by Amtrak conductors who became nastier as the trip went on. The "dinner" they provided was a joke, two thin slices of lunch meat on a small sub roll with a small bag of chips. By the time we got to 30th st station in Philly they had been without food on the train for almost 24 hours. Apparently Amtrak is also incapable of re-supplying the lounge and dining cars en route.

I can't believe I paid to be mistreated like this. Amtrak has no regard for the welfare of its passengers and crew. It was a definite attitude of "We got you money so screw you!". This is definitely my last experience with long distance passenger rail!

[ironhorseman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainman2244

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironhorseman
[br The Newton, KS station has been called upon in the middle of the night to resupply the SW Chief with food or other supplies in the middle of the night with only a few hours notice.

Hmmm.... Maybe i found myself a new job [:p]

Good Luck! They cut back the staff several years ago from 2 to 1. I think the guy that did nights got laid off and the guy that did days was moved to nights and therefore daytime hours were also eliminated. Now operates 12am-8am (whether the train comes in this time frame or not, I think, don't quote me on that for sure). It's too bad though, they have a nice station and had a good crew, real friendly.

[#dots]

... And by the way, I knew there was another Kansan on these here forums, but couldn't remember who. I won't be back online until at least May. I'll be in Missouri (ugh! [xx(]) during that time. Let me know if that old Frisco line in east Wichita ever gets developed into something, bike trail or otherwise. I see it's back in news again.

[PBenham]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSFrailfan.

There are alot of pissed off Passengers that won't ride Amtrak ever again.
Allan.

It did not take that much to drive me off[:(!]! Had I been on that train, I would have found a way to get off, then use my cell phone (Hang the extra charges[}:)]) and gotten some thing arranged right there and then. I know a bunch of railfans who are of the same mindset.[:-,] When I was stranded on an NS steam trip way back when, I stuck it out, but one enterprising employee of a now-gone carrier, got out his radio, called the dispatcher on his employers railroad, and caught a freight home! To top it all off-[:-,]HE GOT PAID!!!(what a racket[;)])[wow][yeah]

[Modelcar]

...As a post indicates above...CSX must carry some of the blame....The trains should have been held at an appropiate place that options would have been available for the trains involved.

[railfan619]

I know it was dumb to keep people on a train for up to 20 hours but if the train crew knew there was a problem up ahead couldn't they have stopped and then reversed the train to go back to the nearest station and unload the passengers and put them up in hotels or onto a bus and as soon as the problem was clear dead head the train to meet up with those passengers at the next station and continue with the trip.

[Anonymous]

I don't see many people laying the responsibility for some of this disaster where it belongs, namly CSX and its dispatching- that train didn't leave JAX without the approval of CSX and its dispatchers who should have known the time it was going to take to clear the wreck. (Unless they were being BS'd too by those on site- I have seen that happen, also). I can only assume that there were a dozen or more freights backing up behine #98, too. Mr. Ward has sure been quiet about all of this. He is the one that should be out front apologizing.

[jeaton]

Mineta is just an empty suit. He probably does not have anything to do with anything. At the Congressional Hearing on Amtrak Governance, Amtrak Chairman Laney stated that he is keeping the WhiteHouse "posted".

Laney had generated a completely legal $100,000 contribution to the Bush 2000 campaign. It has been reported that he hoped be appointed Secretary of Transportation, but the job went to the token Democrat, I do not know if Laneystill has an interest in a more important assignment with the Bush administration, but I do know this for sure: If he wants something more, he better not cross the likes of Andy Card and Carl Rove. To say the least, those guys will but a serious hurt on anybody who is not with the program.

As for this incident, there certainly could have been better options. As some suggested, even just holding at Jax may have been prefered. Now it would seem that like the old arrow logo, Amtrak is itself is headless. Shortly after Gunn took the job, I asked him if he liked all the stress of the job. He replied that he wasn't stressed, rather he was the one that put out the stress.

Jay

[Modelcar]

...Mineta probably has been preforming very well....for his boss, that is....But as far as being the steward of good passenger rail in this country I believe we pretty much agree he has not promoted that cause much at all. If in fact he did want to move the effort along for our passenger system he has failed to stand up to the Administration to do anything. I believe the Amtrak board has been a sorry bunch as well, but perhaps their hands have been rather tied or....they are just political appointees there to mimic the effort going on above them....Now we see some results of that kind of management....As stated above, bring back the real manager and RUN the Co. like a real railroad should...and one that has the purpose of the passengers in mind....

[daveklepper]

BRING BACK DAVID GUNN


THIS FAILURE IS MINETA'S FAULT AND NO ONE ELSES.

[beefmalone]

"But despite those reports, Amtrak 98 passengers said at 6 o'clock last night that they still had not been offered...a rest stop of more than five minutes to stretch their legs."

Stretch their legs??? Their on a TRAIN, not a pinto! I was 10 hours late once on the Texas Eagle, but fortunately I was already in first class so I just got a couple of extra free meals. :) Not sure how the other guys fared.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironhorseman
[br The Newton, KS station has been called upon in the middle of the night to resupply the SW Chief with food or other supplies in the middle of the night with only a few hours notice.

Hmmm.... Maybe i found myself a new job [:p]

[UPTRAIN]

Good ole news media...title makes it sound HORRIBLE...THOUSANDS...and it was a whole...2 thousand...my God...I'm still sickened!

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/31/national/31train.html

[Modelcar]

Totally.....Fumbled it all...!! With communications we have {everywhere in the world today}, why wasn't the correct info passed to Dp down the line to hold such and such at such proper point....Wth the pictures of the derailment {on Nightly News}, anyone could tell it would be a long delay....So The trains should have been held at a proper point {Jacksonville..??}, so they could have figured an alternate route for them to get around the derailment....Surely this isn't rocket science for all involved....What a shame for all the passengers and....Amtrak itself. That played right into the hands of current Adminstration of wanting to eliminate the system....I'm sure it moved the cause along...

[UPTRAIN]

Something else for them to b**** about Amtrak for, something that was out of their control, and you know the God....dang news media picked out the worst horror stories for use in the article. They didn't talk to somebody like me who would have responded like, "Oh, I'm not worried, I'll take a nap!" And they talk about "tired, scared and stranded". Let me address that in order:

Tired: Take a fricken nap
Scared: OF WHAT!?
Stranded: You're parked on a siding...not fricken lost in the woods, the train knows it's way out...it follows tracks...

It sickens me...

[Anonymous]

From the statement given by the Amtrak rep on NBC News tonite, the only option Amtrak evidently explored was chartering enough busses to accommodate all the passengers to their final destinations. The rep stated that due to the holidays, there were insufficient buses available to accompli***his. That was as far as they evidently went. Obvioiusly, they released the train from Jacksonville prematurely (probably due to an overly optimistic estimate from CSX).

What I find inexcusable was why Amtrak didn't resupply that train during the 12+ hours it was being held at Jacksonville!!!! Someone really fumbled the ball and badly.

[cnw4001]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BaltACD



It would appear that the current Amtrak 'management' is doing it's best to antagonize passengers, thus reducing ridership and bringing about the demise of Amtrak.

If it's not intentional, it sure is accomplishing that end.

The current state of heightened uncertainty over Amtrak's future could well have created a climate of "I'm not putting myself at risk." People on the front line are frequently unwilling to do something out of the ordinary if they feel there won't be support from above. Is that right? No.However it's what happens when the front line people feel there's not support from above.

[overall]

The story was just on the NBC nightly news with John Sigenthaler. As Allan says, they were very unhappy. One lady said people take Amtrak because they don't like to fly and a lot of Flers were made by Amtrak in this incident.I can't beleive something like this would have happened had David Gunn still been there. Amtrak is being destroyed from within by it's puppet board.

George

[Anonymous]

There are alot of pissed off Passengers that won't ride Amtrak ever again.
Allan.

[Anonymous]

There wern't enouhg buses avabialbe. Arrived New York 28 Hours late.. Reminds me when I saw a 25 Hour late Southwest Chief at least 14 of those Hours were in the Station waiting.

[traintownofcowee]

Why didn't they take the passengers off the train and put them on a bus to another station to get on another train?
It wasn't Amtrak's fault.
Lots of people in this country hate Amtrak, and they can't wait for it to go out of business or bankrupt.
But as us railroaders, we need to keep Amtrak running.
Plus, we need to fix the problems which causes derailments.
Who knows, maybe people who hate trains caused this. ???
Ya Neva Know.
[:)][8D][:D][^][:(!][B)][xx(][:(][?][:O][8)][:P][;)][alien][X-)][%-)][(-D][swg][:-^][{(-_-)}]
Well...

[BaltACD]

Reliable informants -(doesn't that sound sinister) report that Amtrak was informed of the derailement and it's anticipated time for resumption of service of 20+ hours of delay and AMTRAK decided not to provide alternative means of transport (busses) as had been a common happening in these situations under David Gunn and all prior Amtrak administrations. Additionally, AMTRAK did not provide any food service for those who had run out of cash due to the length delay. Providing complementray food service under extenuating circumstances had also been a common occurence as means of attempting to provide 'Customer Service' during trying time.

It would appear that the current Amtrak 'management' is doing it's best to antagonize passengers, thus reducing ridership and bringing about the demise of Amtrak.

[Anonymous]

Amtrak tried in vain to get busses for a bus bridge but couldn't find enough. Someone made a big error when tehy let the train leave Jacksonville.

[Modelcar]

....I agree "it is a way of going" as stated above....but from what I've read Amtrak sure mishandled these situations this time at least....Stopping the train "in the woods" with no way to get anyware as one person indicated....If true, why would this happen. Again as I noted before and others too...why not figure out a way to get the train BACK to where it can find another route to get around the derailment, etc....That sure shouldn't be impossible. An emergency requires some action at times other than what is written into contracts....Surely, when people's well being is involved. Also how about informing the passengers what is really happening and not a bunch of misleading statements.