engine levels

[Anonymous]

Ed, I would be surprised if the expert knew what ATS was. I really dig on your description of the GE (that is for General Electric; O.K. one last shot at Railroad Kev) units. They really do look like a lego loco!
Ken
P.S. Everybody knows that the brakes set up from the middle of the train, that is after you break in two if you just slap the throttle in "speed 8," or what the rest of us call run 8 like the pro Kev says.
Cheers

[wabash1]

jenny

slofr8 was the best person exsplaining most of this, i only have one thing against his statement. now its not to say he is wrong couse i know engineers who do this and it works for him. I dont watch my amps to see them drop before i get another notch. i get what i need. as long as you have your train strecthed it wont break. Now i should also say here that i wont go over 1200 amps when pulling from a start and i dont get all 8 notches either. A perfect senerio would be on ge engines ill get 2 notches right away, then as i get rolling ill get 2 more as it throttles up i might get 2 more and so on till i start gettign to track speed and start notching off. this will also depend on the layout of the land. if i crested a hill ill notch off so i lose some speed and before the rear end gets over the hill ill get a few notches ( this is why i lost speed after cresting hill so i have a chance running away from the slack with out speeding) a good way to see it is lets say you are driving a truck and have a mile of camper trailers behind you. you pull out of a rest area you got it moving and now your on the ramp for the interstate you mash your motor to go and merge into traffic. same thing starting a train. now you just pulled up hill and crested . are you going to keep your truck floored or will you let off the throttle? maybe alittle brake? if you do it right you wont need brakes you will let the terrain do all the work and you will just look goood.

cabforward all i can say for your question is not all engines are the same . you might have 2 ge engines sitting there and notch 1 on one of them might load 300amps. and only 100amps on the other. As far as a water temp and soforth there is none. that is done by the computor and if you lose or get low oil or water level the engine saftey devices will shut the engine down. The gauges will very depending on engineer and where he is running AS far as i am concerned after i have my train rolling i dont care about the amp gauge ill look at it to see if the engine is still loading from time to time but not that important to me . i dont run by the speedometer either i let the terrain do all the work i glace at the speedometer to check myself. dynamic brake is used for controlling train speed not for stopping.(even though alot of engineers use it for that) air gauges i check for any differances i do check the H.O.T.D. quite often this is the only clue you will get of train line seperation before the brake pipe drops on the head end. and you can get prepared for train handling at this time. there is not just one more important gage just differant ones you use at differant times.

[Mookie]

Thanx Wabash - I appreciate the information. Sounds like you run and engine like the old heads did - by feel and sound. But I guess after so many years of doing this, it becomes a part of you.

I knew an engineer that used to run a train and could tell the speed without looking at the speed recorder - his young brakeman asked him one day how he knew the speed w/o looking - he jokingly told the brakeman that he counted the telephone poles, pi r squared them and divided by 2.

The brakeman went home and told his wife and they were both so impressed the next time the brakeman saw the engineer he told him so!

Never heard if they ever figured it out or not!

Jen

[Anonymous]

I think the only thing Connie ever gets is FIRED.

[edblysard]

Oh man, dont make me laugh so hard, I was eating tortilla chips and salsa, wow that burns...
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[wabash1]

i was amazed at how easy some of the guys made it look when they ran like there was nothing to it when i first started. then after i got on that side of the cab it was differant. now i am training guys and they are amazed that i sit on the conductors side of the cab and can tell them what to do and have no slack action and not let them speed. I learned from ole head engineers and that is what i do by feel. gages tell you what the engine is doing your butt tells you what the train is doing.

[wabash1]

pro kev the super hogger. When i went to work last night i had the shop come out and and remove the automatic brake handle as i was told by a supper hogger that we aint supposed to have them on these engines. all i needed to do was go from speed 8 to idle to stop. and hold it with the independant. well i am happy to tell you that after i came back from taking a drug test i finished my tour of duty. It sure makes a person confused when i had enough to do that now i got to figure out weather i need to be in speed 8 or notch 8 or run 8. what that big red handle is for i guess it for hanging my hat on? i sure dont want to disprove him he might put a absolute on me. I wonder what that other handle is for above the throttle i got it to move last night and it made a lot of noise. but i did not go faster just got the train mad at me when i went to speed 8 on it. it must be for the auxilary fan for the hyphadufinator quadumadulater roller bearing valve hooked to the watchamacallit. im sure super hogger will set me straight on this.

[Anonymous]

Ed, if it werent for you and Wabash and a few others here, I'd never post in this forum again. If you guys are ever in KC drop a line and I will buy the first round!
Ken
P.S. what's that little stubby lever for? I pulled on it really hard and it came out in my hands. I just threw it out of the window on my big 'ol G.E. (that's General Lectric for you inferior rails), but, after that, I couldn't shift through the 8 speed tranny on my loco. Does EMDs have an 8 "speed" tranny? how big is the clutch on those units?

[Anonymous]

Ed, I'm really sorry! Especially since I made you shoot good Texas salsa out of yer nose. That's just wrong to waste good salsa! Was down Texas way awhile back to pick up a motorcycle from the H-D dealer in El Paso. Darn that town has some good Mexican food!
Ken

[wabash1]

i dont know im still trying to double clutch these things that is why i blow that horn to cover up that noise from that tranny.

[Jackflash]

J, good job on your reply, I too, run by the seat
of the pants, I dont depend on the gauges, maybe
note the amp gauge when it goes into short time
rating, to not keep it there to long, but I doubt
I could tell you anything about my main reservoir
pressure on any train I have run, anyway good job.
jackflash

[edblysard]

I'm just a lowly rock pounder, but my my engineer has let me run a few times. After he got back up off the floor the first time I let the slack run in wrong, he explained how, why and when, then did the smartest thing he could, he sat down on the firemans side, and talked to me as I ran. Didnt stand behind me, didnt sideseat drive, just explained, gave hints, but let me make some more mistakes, not to embarrass me, but to let me experience first hand what he was talking about. He allowed me to learn, hands on, instead of being the "great" teacher who overloads the pupil. So now, when my engineer gets a little air, but dosnt get off the throttle, I understand, same when he get a notch, going downhill. And yeah, he told me the same thing, the guages tell you what the engine is doing, your fanny tells you what the train is doing, or going to do. I now have a lot more respect for you guys who make it look easy. Guys like Noel should spent a day on the seatbox, he may learn why we dont trust or believe this can be done by remote.
Stay Frosty,
oh, hope you find your reverser handle.
(shhhh...dont tell Kev what it really does...)
Ed

[wabash1]

it wouldnt matter if we told him or not he say we wouldnt have one and deal us another absolute. oh and kev for your info i passed my drug test got a "b"

[Anonymous]

Drug test? didn't mention anything about that.

[Anonymous]

Rick, are you as confused as i am? b? i don' think Letter values are assighned to drug tests.

Kev

[Anonymous]

Well, in the USA they may be, but in Canada, the numerical values range from 1-100 determining your exact state. generally 90, 95 is a good position to be. I suppose if you got a 9 or an 8, you wouldn't really be in a position to drive a train!

/rick

[Anonymous]

8???????? an eight! you really wouldn't be in a position to Drive at train! or Even GET UP! more like on the floor alomst dead.

like i said stay in the 90-95 zone.

kev

[Anonymous]

Jen, I have put some thought into this formula. Speed can not be calculated using it. Speed is a measurment of time. I see no reference to this in the formula. (Time) Are you sure you wrote this formula down correctly?
TIM A

[Anonymous]

Next time you should stay up and study for it. Maybe you can get an "A".

[Anonymous]

Perhaps Kev should write "Railroading For Dummies" since he knows it all. He confused hauling coal with being powered by it. Heck, make him a Trainmaster--same results.

[Anonymous]

I have also been looking at this,
PI R squared is a form of messuring the flow of Electricity (given that R = Resistance), also it can be used as a way of findinf the Area or the Circumference of a circle ( given that R = Radius) it sounds like a mixed up formula between Electricity, and the Circumference of a circle. is their a chance you typed it in wrong? i'm thinking of what formula it could possibly be..
To accurately messure speed, you would have to take:

Distance (Traveled) times 60 / (elapsed) Time = Speed in Knots

/ = Devided by.
* Speed given in Nautical miles.
(speed in MPH / 1.15 = Speed in Knots)

Thats 1 Speed equation.
and i'm sure it wasn't that one.
Well, if you typed it wrong i'm dying to know what it is.

Cheers,
kev

[Anonymous]

Kevin:
Steam may be gone but not one tenth of the hoggers nowdays could operate a steam locomotive in a safe and efficent way.
I retired after 45 years on the rr and worked on the good old GN when they were sstill using steam (2 years of steam trips) and it took skill and knowledge to run them.

The railroads are proving a point nowdays by hoiring people off the street and in one year they have their engineers license.

[Anonymous]

If you were talking about one of Jen's previous posts about the old head engineer, his formula was meant to be funny. He was telling the trainee. Kinda like a left handed hammer, sky hook, muffler bearing, unicorn. Get it.

[Mookie]

I am laughing so hard I have tears in my eyes!

My co-workers will know I have been on the Trains Forum again!

Jen

[Anonymous]

Wow, sure has been a lot of activity since I was here last!
j. wrote : "i only have one thing against his statement. now its not to say he is wrong couse i know engineers who do this and it works for him. I dont watch my amps to see them drop before i get another notch."
j.makes a good point. Rereading my hastily written post (typing one finger style with a 2 and 4 year old on each leg) I can see why he would say that. The fact is, 99.9% of the time we have enough power for the train we are hauling and "seat of the pants" is the way we (I) run. Taking a notch when you need it is something learned from experience and when done right is akin to watching the gauge with your ears.
We have a hard grade here and tonnage is figured for the power hitting the bottom at 35 mph. Once and a while we would have to stop and do work at a yard at the bottom of this hill. Now instead of trying to give the yo-yos in the office a lesson in physics over the radio at 3:am we would sometimes try it anyway. Sometimes traction was the deciding factor (rain, ice, snow, leaves..) but given the same basic situation I started to see a pattern in who was making it easier than others. As a brakeman and/or conductor I could see different engineers and their methods. Not much difference really just that some were more patient then others. Some even nursing the independant brake to discourage wheel slip. Only one or two pullaparts but some hoggers would just give it to 'er till the wheels would slip.
I started putting the questions to the engineer who, in my, and others, opinion, was doing the best job. He said it was mostly "seat of the pants" but in an effort to simplify it for me, he showed me what the ampmeter was doing and that it is not a bad idea to refer to it when in a situation like this.
I now pass this info on to younger hoggers (if they want it) and on a rare occasion I do it myself. Just a matter of using all the resources available to me.
My previous posts were intended to simplify an explanation for rail fans (Jenny) that would not be needed for experienced railroaders (someone's name intentionally left out. He seems to be getting enough bruises here without me). For them, "Seat of the pants" seems hard to grasp without out a well thought out post like j's. I just wanted to show that j. and I are on the same page.
Sorry for the long post, Slofr8.

[wabash1]

hey slofr8

sorry if it sounded like i was bashing your statement, it was not ment to be. the ole head engineers here where I work all use the amps gage for referance. in training new guys we all let them read the amp gage to baby a train along. after they get 4-5 months in depending on the student we do all but cover the thing up. we make them feel what the train is doing. i know of 2 engineers that never got away from using the amp gage for train handling and it shows either you get hit from the slack or take forever to get it all strecth out, not smooth. now i know one other guy who uses it along with seat of the pants and he does real good. i did not want it to sound like i was bashing you just giving another way of doing the same job.

Now i have another question maybe super hogger can tell me this. or maybe it might be to much for him being i got him restricted by the drug test statement. this might be a absolute for him. but tell me how do you DRIVE a train?

[Anonymous]

How do you drive a train? Duhhh, with the steering wheel, "speed" lever, and the Alpine CD player blastin.......Gee Wabash, how long have you been "drivin'" trains?

[Anonymous]

Ok to put all your minds at Ease.. i am going to buy the railroading for dummies book. So, supper hogger has this to say. I would tell you how to drive a train, and i'm sure "Drive" isn't the right word, a better one would be much more suttable. Right now i feel i am under heavy scrutany, so to give you more stuff to mock and laugh at would simply be stupid on my part.. hence my "shutting mouth" policy.. I will no longer answer any questions due to the fact my knowledge on this subject seems to be inadequate. So, i will let the pros (the rest of you) respond to everyhting. I am relitively new to the job and am in a learning process... but all of you who have been doing this for years should respond and not me. I am sorry if i mislead anyone, Especually Jenny i've been told the answer i gave you was incorrect, so it must be. I apologise to anyone who i have angered or upset in any way, shape or form.
Kev

[wabash1]

it was not that you didnt know the answer it was that you thought you was going to set us straight and proceded to dog us. and we did what was best, we showed you was wrong, and proceded to make a fool out of you. jokingly not mean, but since you showed the common sense to admit you was wrong . i acept your statement and forgive you. and there will be things you will answer that none of us could. and just join in on conversations, and you could bring more light to something we may not exsplain totaly. Oh and we dont drive trains we run them as driving you haft to steer. and it seems you know there is no steering wheel.

[Anonymous]

Ahhh, Yes, Humor. The Old Engineer was showing his ability to be amusing to a new trainee. I get it now. I should have figured it out sooner. That formula could not work today. Most of the railroad companies have removed the telephone poles from there main line.
TIM A