Why do people refer to an engineer as a driver and running a train as driving a train ?

[mackb4]

I can understand that in good ole England and other parts of the world people refer an engineer as a driver of a train.Or they say the person is driving the train.I can't accept that .You drive a car,you ride a bike,but you run a train.I run the train with a throttle but I don't steer it like a car,or hold on to handle bars like riding a bike.So therfore you can't be a driver of a train.Sorry to step on some people's pride but what do you all think?[:p]

[daveklepper]

In the USA the term driver is never used by anyone knowledgable concerning the people "running" the train. He runs the train is the usual phrase, at least among laymen, and the person, man or woman, is called engineer. Sometimes, with rapid transit and other urban railway equipment, with electric operation, he is called the motorman. In two-man streetcar days and today with most subway trains, we hear of the motorman and the conductor, the latter opening and closing doors and in some cases collecting fares. With one man operation, which on streetcars means also collecting fares, the term operator is used, and some transit systems even now use this term for bus drivers, since they collect fares in addition to "driving" the bus.. In Great Britain? Can an Englishman, Scots, Welsh, or N. Irishman answer?

[mackb4]

Oh a little funny thing to mention about this subject.After I got back from engine school in Nov of 1992,I got my wife and her best friend(which my wife's best friend is married to my best friend)on a good joke.They asked me "how do you steer those big trains ?"[}:)] I saw instant suckers. "Well I said,you see it's much easier now with these newer engines,they got power steering.On the old ones there's no power steering and it's much harder to turn that big wheel.And that's why they had fireman on the old steam engines,to help you know turn the wheel".They just looked at amazement at me that I had just let them in on something they had never known.Then I couldn't stand it any longer and had to tell them the truth.They weren't to happy ! But that's a true story [(-D][(-D] and will always laugh about it.

[Anonymous]

Well, in my language the english words "drive, ride, and run" are same as the word "drive".
Exept when you talk about horses, then there is a separate word for ride, but we don't say ride a bike, because ride is only used for animals.

So, sometimes when I speak english associations about words come from my mother language, that's why I usually make a mistake and say drive a train.

But I don't think it makes much of a difference anyway, because you understand what I mean when I say drive a train.

[TomDiehl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mackb4

Oh a little funny thing to mention about this subject.After I got back from engine school in Nov of 1992,I got my wife and her best friend(which my wife's best friend is married to my best friend)on a good joke.They asked me "how do you steer those big trains ?"[}:)] I saw instant suckers. "Well I said,you see it's much easier now with these newer engines,they got power steering.On the old ones there's no power steering and it's much harder to turn that big wheel.And that's why they had fireman on the old steam engines,to help you know turn the wheel".They just looked at amazement at me that I had just let them in on something they had never known.Then I couldn't stand it any longer and had to tell them the truth.They weren't to happy ! But that's a true story [(-D][(-D] and will always laugh about it.

Isn't it easier than that? Don't the newer ones have self steering trucks? [:D]

[edblysard]

I think part of the reason is because the English have always refered to anyone who operated a lorry or wagon, carts and such, as drivers, which they carried over into the locomotive cab.
Remember, they call the hood of a car an bonnett, and the roof of a convertible a hood, the trunk is a boot, so...

Ed

[Anonymous]

But remember who's language it is first, you yanks have just got to meddle and change things [:p]

[edblysard]

True,
But a little revolution every once in a while is a good thing!

Ed[:D]

[owlsroost]

In (Britsh) English an engineer is a person who designs/constructs/maintains structures and equipment. The person operating a train is the driver (as in a person operating a vehicle - dictionary definition).

Back in Southern Railway days in the UK (pre-1948), operators of electric MU trains were (I believe) called 'motormen' to distingui***hem from steam locomotive drivers (who were probably on a higher craft grade and got paid more), but this distinction has disappeared now as far as I know.

Tony

[Tulyar15]

I find this arguing about words rather pointless. As long as we all know what we mean that's what matters. English has more words than any other language so inevitably there are several words for driving etc. Within the British Isles different people use different words. For instance in Glasgow, they call their underground line 'The Subway'.

Just as an aside I'm currently Spanish at evening classes and there are differences in words used between Latin America and European Spanish. Argentina seems to be developing its own distinct version of the language too, with even more English words in it

[ndbprr]

Well the two languages which resist English words the most are the obvious one French and Japanese. When I was in Tokyo 20 years ago it was considered very urbane to drop an English word into a phrase now and then and there was an editorial in the Tokyo newspaper condemning the practice. The example they used was a guy who owned a fruit stand and thought he could sell more fruit if his little plastic bags said fresh fruit on the side so he had some printed up. the only prblem was his English wasn't good enoughn so instead of fresh fruit they said fresh farts. I kept looking for those but never ran across them.

[TomDiehl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ndbprr
[ The example they used was a guy who owned a fruit stand and thought he could sell more fruit if his little plastic bags said fresh fruit on the side so he had some printed up. the only prblem was his English wasn't good enoughn so instead of fresh fruit they said fresh farts. I kept looking for those but never ran across them.

And why, pray tell, would you look for THEM???? [:D]

[ndbprr]

The bags not the contents!!!

[Modelcar]

...Great scott....."they call it a sub-way".....Guess we're not as far off the mark as I thought.
The masses of everyday people in this great country..{USA}, have mostly little knowledge of railroads....Many don't even know they still are operational and actually haul things....like people and frieght....let alone what that person that controls it is called.....That includes the news media for the most part too.

[Isambard]

Some North American Professional Engineeering organizations (of persons having an university granted Engineering degree, or equivalent), object to the locomotive "driver" being called an "Engineer". While I graduated with an Engineering degree and was a member of a Professional Engineering organization for years, it never bothered me that the guys driving the trains were called Engineers (they were all guys in my day).
I guess it was because as a kid I always wanted to be a locomotive Engineer. And now I are one!

[:D]

[espeefoamer]

The British not only call the engineer a driver,the conductor is a guard,and a subway(at least the one in London) is a tube.

[jakebud]

Perhaps a slightly different point of view here. I've been in the Air Force for 21 years, and flying for 20 of those. I am currently an instructor pilot on the E-4B (Boeing 747) and prior to that flew the B-1B and B-52G. I take it with great pride to be called a Whale Driver in regards the E-4, Bone Driver in regards the B-1 and Buff Driver in regards the B-52.

SPIKE

[Modelcar]

...I would think you should be proud of all those jobs....and names.

[zardoz]

Sort of on the same subject.....

When I watch video of railway operations in various countries, the engineer (driver, operator, whatever) seems to be holding a rather large spoked wheel while the train is in motion. Of course I realize that it is not actually for steering, but what is the wheel used for?

Somewhere to rest his hands?
A sort of 'deadman' device?
Non-functional, but put there to reassure passengers?

[mackb4]

That's a good one.Sorta like the deal where they give you a sugar pill instead of real medicine(I think it's called a placebo....maybe spelled wrong).Letting people think he's really "driving" the train?Might be the throttle control?Hey jakebud,on the railroad,at least the NS,when an engineer goes to an area that he/she isn't qualifed on, they get a "pilot" to guide them.Kinda funny how I guess words do get tossed around.

[ValleyX]

QUOTE: Originally posted by electro-ortcele


Exept when you talk about horses, then there is a separate word for ride, but we don't say ride a bike, because ride is only used for animals.

So, you go bike driving, not bike riding? I had no idea you blokes did it that way!

[ValleyX]

QUOTE: Originally posted by electro-ortcele

Well, in my language the english words "drive, ride, and run" are same as the word "drive".
Exept when you talk about horses, then there is a separate word for ride, but we don't say ride a bike, because ride is only used for animals.

So, sometimes when I speak english associations about words come from my mother language, that's why I usually make a mistake and say drive a train.

But I don't think it makes much of a difference anyway, because you understand what I mean when I say drive a train.

[ValleyX]

QUOTE: Originally posted by electro-ortcele

Well, in my language the english words "drive, ride, and run" are same as the word "drive".
Exept when you talk about horses, then there is a separate word for ride, but we don't say ride a bike, because ride is only used for animals.

So, you go bike driving instead of bike riding? I had no idea you blokes did it that way!

[ValleyX]

QUOTE: Originally posted by electro-ortcele

Well, in my language the english words "drive, ride, and run" are same as the word "drive".
Exept when you talk about horses, then there is a separate word for ride, but we don't say ride a bike, because ride is only used for animals.

So, you go bike driving instead of bike riding? I had no idea you blokes did it that way!

[dknelson]

Do the Brits still refer to the person we would probably call a fireman as a "footplateman"? There aren't any footplates now that steam locos and tenders are a thing of the past, yet that title lived on. On the other hand our firemen were not tending many fires either ...

The bit about steering reminds me of a news article I read about a crossing accident and the reporter wrote that the engineer was "unable to steer the train" away from the car. And yet the NY Times says there is no need for reporters to go on Operation Lifesaver rides!

But it also reminds me of a story. The version I heard uses Irish names -- no offense intended! Pat and Mike are brothers from the auld sod and Mike has come to American and become a steam locomotive engineer. Pat comes over to visit and Mike takes him for a ride in the cab. Pat is impressed with all the things Mike has learned to do to run the engine. As the train approaches a tunnel however Pat's eyes become wide with terror: "Fer the love o'God, Mike," he pleads, "don't miss that hole!"
Dave Nelson

[Modelcar]

....Speaking of "blokes"....Some years ago I was in Great Brittain and walking in a parking lot a couple came by with one of those huge baby carriages and ran one wheel over my foot.....and right away he said...."Sorry bloke".......

[ValleyX]

My apologies to the list, I don't understand how I posted my comments four times. When I hit "Submit Reply", it came up error. Hmmm, just when I thought I understood what I was doing. . . . . . . . . . . . .

[Modelcar]

....I just had the same experience with an "error" listing....

[samfp1943]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tulyar15

I find this arguing about words rather pointless. As long as we all know what we mean that's what matters. English has more words than any other language so inevitably there are several words for driving etc. Within the British Isles different people use different words. For instance in Glasgow, they call their underground line 'The Subway'.

Just as an aside I'm currently Spanish at evening classes and there are differences in words used between Latin America and European Spanish. Argentina seems to be developing its own distinct version of the language too, with even more English words in it

Sort of "SPANGLISH?" Eh, What! [:D][:D][:D]

[owlsroost]

QUOTE: Do the Brits still refer to the person we would probably call a fireman as a "footplateman"? There aren't any footplates now that steam locos and tenders are a thing of the past, yet that title lived on. On the other hand our firemen were not tending many fires either ...

We call a fireman a fireman - footplateman is a generic term covering both drivers and firemen (not that we have any firemen these days, other than on tourist lines and steam specials).

Tony