steepest grade

[shuffle3]

With Saluda, you can probably blame "the bottom line" for it being out of service. If I remember that 2003 Trains article correctly, the uphill trains usually had to double their trains, which is a costly step. For the down grade, the tower needed a crew during operations to switch off any runaways - normal procedure called for setting the switch for the runaway track until the engineer signaled he had the train in good shape to take the mainline. Money still makes the wheels go round. (sigh)

[Allen Jenkins]

[8D]The Nashville & Eastern still runs the Silver Point to Baxter section at 3.03% eastbound.
The Tennessee Central Heritage Rail & Trail Line, with funding just approved for reconstruction, from Algood to Monterey has several 2.5% grades.
When the line reopens to Monterey, several former LMX Dash839BE locomotives will handle sand loads off the old Crawford Branch, to Nashville for concrete production.
Here is the funding story from the Cookeville Herald-Citizen http://www.herald-citizen.com/NF/omf.wnm/herald/news_story.html?rkey=0037647+[cr=gdn
Excursion runs are frequent over Silver Point grade, the Monterey extension will be completed, next summer.

[cnw4001]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Cheviot Hill

Cass Railroad is one I've got to go see. Seen some pretty impressive video of it.

If you decide to go, be sure to let me know, there are some good things to see along the way.

Also the State of West Virginia rents former worker's houses in Cass for extremely reasonable prices.

[Cheviot Hill]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cnw4001

QUOTE: Originally posted by Cheviot Hill

HI Dale, long time sinse I've talked to you. Yes it does go straight up the hill. You can drive along side of the ROW. Don't remember the road but it's an amazing sight to see. Don't know about the artillery range. Madison railroad is using the old military compound as a place to store rail cars for other railroads.

I didn't remember a road running along the R of W on the hill. I usually came into Madison (or left) on the road which runs along the military range. Seems you drove for something like nine or ten miles beside that facility so I always assumed they had fired some sizeable guns there.

Ohio Central and OHIRail are both storing cars in this area. Ohio Central has hoppers and tankers along the former PRR Pahhandle west of Coshocton, Ohio which you see for several miles going on Ohio 16 west of Coshocton. OHIRail has their Minerva, Ohio yard full of stored cars.

Dale

The road that pretty much follows the ROW is Route 7.

[Cheviot Hill]

Cass Railroad is one I've got to go see. Seen some pretty impressive video of it.

[cnw4001]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wrwatkins


The Cass Scenic Railroad was served by the C&O's line from Roncevert to Drubin WV. Roncevert is on the C&O main near White Sulphur Springs and Durbin is a few miles north of Cass. this is where the C&O interchanged with the Western Maryland. Sadly CSX abandoned the line south of Cass to Roncervert a few years ago. The section north of Cass to Durbin was essentially abandoned as the tracks were damaged by a floow. I think the state of WV now owns that section. Not sure if the old WM line is in service north of Durbin. It has been a few years since i have been there.

The line still connects well up the mountain. I think it is now the West Virginia Central but don't hold me to that. The connection is not down at Cass and I'm trying to recall but I'm pretty sure it's beyond Whitaker Station.

[Modelcar]

...Years ago...{closed in about 1916}, the PW&S between Ligonier and Somerset, Pa. climbed over Laural Hill....The same mountain range the Pennsylvania Turnpike used a tunnel to get through...{since bypassed}, and it had some steep grades as I remember some old timers relating about how slow it was some places, etc....But I don't know how steep.....I have a small booklet on that railroad but don't remember it relating what the steepest grade was.....Anyone on here ever hear of it.....? It connected to the Ligonier Valley RR and that in turn connected to the Pennsylvania main line at Latrobe...{of Arnold Palmer fame}.....

[Anonymous]

The Cass Scenic Railroad was served by the C&O's line from Roncevert to Drubin WV. Roncevert is on the C&O main near White Sulphur Springs and Durbin is a few miles north of Cass. this is where the C&O interchanged with the Western Maryland. Sadly CSX abandoned the line south of Cass to Roncervert a few years ago. The section north of Cass to Durbin was essentially abandoned as the tracks were damaged by a floow. I think the state of WV now owns that section. Not sure if the old WM line is in service north of Durbin. It has been a few years since i have been there.

[vsmith]

Cass Scenic RR , Virginia ,10-13%, steepest I've ever heard of short of a cog system. Standard gauge Shays also the biggest Shays ever built

The long gone Silverton RR in Colorado had a short section of 8+% mainline, one of the steepest narrow gauge lines I know of for rod engines

The 2ft gauge Gilpin Tramway in Colorado had some verrrrrry steep spurs to various mineheads in the 10-12% range. Also Shays.

[cnw4001]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wrwatkins


I think one of the steepest grades on an adhesion railroad is on the Cass Scenic Railroad at Cass West Virginia with a maximum grade of 13%. This line is operated by the WV State park system as a tourist line. The line originally was built by West Virginia Pulp and Paler company, who had a mill at Cass WV. The line was purchased by the state when the lumbering operation shut down. Motive power are Shays traversing a couple of switchbacks. It is well worth a visit to Cass as the town has been preserved as an old company town.

Yep, it's a case of the obvious slipping right by me. Good that you mentioned it and of course it has the switchbacks as well.

I wonder what the connecting line grade is, can't remember if it is C & O or B & O which connected to Cass up the mountain and gave it a link to the rest of the world.

Dale

[Modelcar]

...Of course when we're discussing steep grades....and referring to the one at Saluda....We're referring to main line Class 1's. I'm sure there were dozens of "other" steeper grades on lines of various kinds of description.

[Anonymous]

I think one of the steepest grades on an adhesion railroad is on the Cass Scenic Railroad at Cass West Virginia with a maximum grade of 13%. This line is operated by the WV State park system as a tourist line. The line originally was built by West Virginia Pulp and Paler company, who had a mill at Cass WV. The line was purchased by the state when the lumbering operation shut down. Motive power are Shays traversing a couple of switchbacks. It is well worth a visit to Cass as the town has been preserved as an old company town.

[cnw4001]

QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt

The "artillery range" is Jefferson Proving Grounds,basically
right off U.S.421 North of Madison. I believe it's pretty much
closed down right now,but several years ago Indiana National
Guard was using it for some of their training. While I was in the Ky.
Guard;we used it several times ourselves.

Thanks for the update, I remember the name now. Used to go via 421 from US 50 to Madison and then across the river.

Dale

[locomutt]

The "artillery range" is Jefferson Proving Grounds,basically
right off U.S.421 North of Madison. I believe it's pretty much
closed down right now,but several years ago Indiana National
Guard was using it for some of their training. While I was in the Ky.
Guard;we used it several times ourselves.

[cnw4001]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Cheviot Hill

HI Dale, long time sinse I've talked to you. Yes it does go straight up the hill. You can drive along side of the ROW. Don't remember the road but it's an amazing sight to see. Don't know about the artillery range. Madison railroad is using the old military compound as a place to store rail cars for other railroads.

I didn't remember a road running along the R of W on the hill. I usually came into Madison (or left) on the road which runs along the military range. Seems you drove for something like nine or ten miles beside that facility so I always assumed they had fired some sizeable guns there.

Ohio Central and OHIRail are both storing cars in this area. Ohio Central has hoppers and tankers along the former PRR Pahhandle west of Coshocton, Ohio which you see for several miles going on Ohio 16 west of Coshocton. OHIRail has their Minerva, Ohio yard full of stored cars.

Dale

[Cheviot Hill]

HI Dale, long time sinse I've talked to you. Yes it does go straight up the hill. You can drive along side of the ROW. Don't remember the road but it's an amazing sight to see. Don't know about the artillery range. Madison railroad is using the old military compound as a place to store rail cars for other railroads.

[cnw4001]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Cheviot Hill

Unfortunately, the Madison "Hill" section has not been used in a very long time. The rails are still there but over growing with brush and trees.

Isn't that grade essentially a straight line up the hill from the town?

My memory is from long ago but I seem to recall you could see the R of W running straight up the hill when you crossed the river. I also remember an artillery proving grounds on the plateau north of town.

Dale

[mudchicken]

Raton's steepest grade is 4.03% at Morley (remains of old CF&I Coal Mine overburden pile & company town still exist) on the Colorado side. 3.5% is an averaged "fiction" (operating department?) for the whole hill , which is somewhat stepped up and down in grade. Both main tracks at this point got new steel this year, see two Amtraks and 4 freight trains. (What happens now with the 100 miles sold around Albuquerque will be interesting to watch)

Uintah RR (long gone, UT/CO line in the Book Cliffs) had the ugliest grades and curves, 7.5 % grade & 66-75 degree curves to get to a mine that produced asphalt products (gilsonite)....it died in late 1939 and was gone by 1940 - Ironically, this area will be a starting point for the planned railroad to Vernal, UT...

[MJ4562]

QUOTE: Originally posted by drfizzix
According to one website on the history of the Uintah Railway, the Baxter Pass grade is a five-mile 7.5 % grade, with curves up to 65 degrees in curvature:
tp://home.bresnan.net/~bpratt15/a_longer_history.htm

Thanks for that link and setting me straight. I knew it had brutal grades but somehow 10% seemed a bit extreme!

[Cheviot Hill]

Unfortunately, the Madison "Hill" section has not been used in a very long time. The rails are still there but over growing with brush and trees.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

QUOTE: Originally posted by electro-ortcele

Where is it? Who owns the tracks?

Saluda is on the line between Salisbury SC and Ashville NC.The line was originaly owned by the Southern Railway,now Norfolk Southern.
I believe the steepest grade still in use is Raton pass on the old Santa Fe line of BNSF.Raton is 3.5%.
The steepest secondary line was the Pennsylvania Railroad branch out of Madison Indiana.This was sold to a short line some time ago. It is 5.1%.

According to the Children's Museum of Indianapolis, the Madison, IN grade is 5.89%:

http://www.ChildrensMuseum.org/themuseum/allaboard.htm

From my research, I believe that grade is currently part of the Madison Railroad, a municipal railway owned by the City of Madison:

http://www.MadisonRailroad.com/

[Anonymous]

Also, the Lewis Hill grade just west of Troy, NC on the Aberdeen, Carolina & Western Railway (former old Norfolk Southern) is 4%. Currently that portion of the line only sees light engine movements, but within a year or less will have 40 to 50 car rock unit trains traversing it.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by APG45

The Uintah Railway is a good bet. A short line in Utah built to haul Gilsonite, an asphalt like substance. I think it is recognized as having the steepest grade for a standard rail system (non-cog). IIRC, it had grades around 10-13% and hairpin turns. I'm just going by memory on the grade so I may be off on the actual %. They had some articulated saddle-tank steam locomotives, not sure if they used any geared locos.

There is a book called The Gilsonite Route (long OOP) documenting the line. The pictures are amazing--you wouldn't think a locomotive could manage those grades which look like rollar coasters.

According to one website on the history of the Uintah Railway, the Baxter Pass grade is a five-mile 7.5 % grade, with curves up to 65 degrees in curvature:

http://home.bresnan.net/~bpratt15/a_longer_history.htm

[trainboyH16-44]

BTW, for a little information on the Saluda grade, there is a TRAINS magazine aout mountain railroading, I believe the December 2003 issue, it's one of my favorites. Has some silhouetted locos smoking up a grade on the cover.

[MJ4562]

The Uintah Railway is a good bet. A short line in Utah built to haul Gilsonite, an asphalt like substance. I think it is recognized as having the steepest grade for a standard rail system (non-cog). IIRC, it had grades around 10-13% and hairpin turns. I'm just going by memory on the grade so I may be off on the actual %. They had some articulated saddle-tank steam locomotives, not sure if they used any geared locos.

There is a book called The Gilsonite Route (long OOP) documenting the line. The pictures are amazing--you wouldn't think a locomotive could manage those grades which look like rollar coasters.

[cnw4001]

The final grade to the Boeing plant is at least 5% if not a bit more. I'm not sure how you'd qualify it as it is a siding.

[Modelcar]

...If any above posters are interested: Check on Google and enter..."Saluda railroad grade" for more info and some photos.....

[Modelcar]

...Yes, the Saluda grade is under an imbargo status {I believe they call it}, not abandoned but out of service since roughly 2001........And it is a steep one....as above post mentioned at 4.7%...believe there is a very short stretch of it at about 5.1....I've been there and looked at it with my own eyes and could hardly believe I was looking at a main line railroad as steep as it really is...It's that awesome....!

[trainboyH16-44]

BTW, didn't I read that the Saluda grade had been out of use for a few years?

[Anonymous]

Not Salisbury and Asheville, but Spartanburg SC and Asheville. The Salisbury line has "The Loop's", near Old Fort and Ridgecrest. Steep, but not as steep as Saluda.