steepest grade

[cnw4001]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wrwatkins


The Cass Scenic Railroad was served by the C&O's line from Roncevert to Drubin WV. Roncevert is on the C&O main near White Sulphur Springs and Durbin is a few miles north of Cass. this is where the C&O interchanged with the Western Maryland. Sadly CSX abandoned the line south of Cass to Roncervert a few years ago. The section north of Cass to Durbin was essentially abandoned as the tracks were damaged by a floow. I think the state of WV now owns that section. Not sure if the old WM line is in service north of Durbin. It has been a few years since i have been there.

The line still connects well up the mountain. I think it is now the West Virginia Central but don't hold me to that. The connection is not down at Cass and I'm trying to recall but I'm pretty sure it's beyond Whitaker Station.

[Cheviot Hill]

Cass Railroad is one I've got to go see. Seen some pretty impressive video of it.

[Cheviot Hill]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cnw4001

QUOTE: Originally posted by Cheviot Hill

HI Dale, long time sinse I've talked to you. Yes it does go straight up the hill. You can drive along side of the ROW. Don't remember the road but it's an amazing sight to see. Don't know about the artillery range. Madison railroad is using the old military compound as a place to store rail cars for other railroads.

I didn't remember a road running along the R of W on the hill. I usually came into Madison (or left) on the road which runs along the military range. Seems you drove for something like nine or ten miles beside that facility so I always assumed they had fired some sizeable guns there.

Ohio Central and OHIRail are both storing cars in this area. Ohio Central has hoppers and tankers along the former PRR Pahhandle west of Coshocton, Ohio which you see for several miles going on Ohio 16 west of Coshocton. OHIRail has their Minerva, Ohio yard full of stored cars.

Dale

The road that pretty much follows the ROW is Route 7.

[cnw4001]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Cheviot Hill

Cass Railroad is one I've got to go see. Seen some pretty impressive video of it.

If you decide to go, be sure to let me know, there are some good things to see along the way.

Also the State of West Virginia rents former worker's houses in Cass for extremely reasonable prices.

[Allen Jenkins]

[8D]The Nashville & Eastern still runs the Silver Point to Baxter section at 3.03% eastbound.
The Tennessee Central Heritage Rail & Trail Line, with funding just approved for reconstruction, from Algood to Monterey has several 2.5% grades.
When the line reopens to Monterey, several former LMX Dash839BE locomotives will handle sand loads off the old Crawford Branch, to Nashville for concrete production.
Here is the funding story from the Cookeville Herald-Citizen http://www.herald-citizen.com/NF/omf.wnm/herald/news_story.html?rkey=0037647+[cr=gdn
Excursion runs are frequent over Silver Point grade, the Monterey extension will be completed, next summer.

[shuffle3]

With Saluda, you can probably blame "the bottom line" for it being out of service. If I remember that 2003 Trains article correctly, the uphill trains usually had to double their trains, which is a costly step. For the down grade, the tower needed a crew during operations to switch off any runaways - normal procedure called for setting the switch for the runaway track until the engineer signaled he had the train in good shape to take the mainline. Money still makes the wheels go round. (sigh)

[Anonymous]

Can anyone tell me the tightest turning radius of any turn in the Feather River Route that is actually in the canyon (not in a yard)? What would it equate to in HO scale?

[Anonymous]

how about the Siskiyou line in Northern California-Southern Oregon. It use to be the SP north-south mailine.

[mackb4]

I only worked on it a couple of trips,but the old P-vine from Portsmouth to Cinncy. Ohio was pretty steep.It is not being used all the way to Portsmouth but I think it is to Winchester Ohio.I never had to, but most trains had to double two hills,one I believe at Sardina and the other at Pebbles Ohio.Before the NS was formed I was told the P-vine was the steepest grade the N&W had.I think we'll see it open after double stacks start running here on the Poca.in the next few years.

[Hugh Jampton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BCRodich

Can anyone tell me the tightest turning radius of any turn in the Feather River Route that is actually in the canyon (not in a yard)? What would it equate to in HO scale?

Partly no..
But ,, I worked this out from first principles (been a while,, hope I got it right. If not I'm sure there'll be a queue to point out the errors of my ways).


What was a nice excel table showing degrees of curvature, actual radius in feet and equivalent HO radius in inches is shown below


Degree Curvature.......Radius in feet............................HO radius in inches
1.......................................5729.65.................................................789.389
2.......................................2864.93.................................................394.709
3.......................................1910.08.................................................263.157
4.......................................1432.68.................................................197.384
5.......................................1146.28.................................................157.926
6.........................................955.364...............................................131.623
7.........................................819.021...............................................112.839
8.........................................716.781.................................................98.7528
9........................................637.273.................................................87.7988
10......................................573.685.................................................79.0381
26.5...................................218.15...................................................30.0551
33.3...................................174.505.................................................24.0420
45......................................130.656.................................................18.0008

[mrunyan]

CN/IC interchange track to the EJ&E is a short tight curve at Munger Junction in Illinois. Going straight on the CN mainline you go under The J's girder bridge. Taking the curve is a 10% grade, suddenly you are up at The J's mainline and this is in use to this day.

[chad thomas]

If anyone is interested here is a site that lists grades on some of the hills around

http://www.alkrug.vcn.com/rrfacts/grades.htm

[Anonymous]

I know that there are steeper grades elsewhere, but no steep grade is as pretty and as brutal and still in use as the "Hill" out of Ashland, Oregon on the Southern Pacific RR on its way south to Black Butte, California. Under prodding from the large mills in Oregon the Central Oregon and Pacific RR ( CORP) is now attacking the hill often as a short cut to California

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mrunyan

CN/IC interchange track to the EJ&E is a short tight curve at Munger Junction in Illinois. Going straight on the CN mainline you go under The J's girder bridge. Taking the curve is a 10% grade, suddenly you are up at The J's mainline and this is in use to this day.

Nickname for similar steep grade in Pueblo Yard (ATSF/BNSF) is "angels flight".

[Randy Stahl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

QUOTE: Originally posted by mrunyan

CN/IC interchange track to the EJ&E is a short tight curve at Munger Junction in Illinois. Going straight on the CN mainline you go under The J's girder bridge. Taking the curve is a 10% grade, suddenly you are up at The J's mainline and this is in use to this day.

Nickname for similar steep grade in Pueblo Yard (ATSF/BNSF) is "angels flight".

That is a striking grade, I assume the one you refer to is the one at the station across from the railway museum ?

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

QUOTE: Originally posted by mrunyan

CN/IC interchange track to the EJ&E is a short tight curve at Munger Junction in Illinois. Going straight on the CN mainline you go under The J's girder bridge. Taking the curve is a 10% grade, suddenly you are up at The J's mainline and this is in use to this day.

Nickname for similar steep grade in Pueblo Yard (ATSF/BNSF) is "angels flight".

That is a striking grade, I assume the one you refer to is the one at the station across from the railway museum ?

Angel's Flight is south of 29th Street, opposite the State Mental Hospital which is on the north end of the Pueblo yard, north of the Midtown Shopping Center, 1/2 mile north of the yard tower. This was a connection to the main track to the receiving yard for the old hump. (Drops 20 feet in a big hurry)

[Randy Stahl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

QUOTE: Originally posted by mrunyan

CN/IC interchange track to the EJ&E is a short tight curve at Munger Junction in Illinois. Going straight on the CN mainline you go under The J's girder bridge. Taking the curve is a 10% grade, suddenly you are up at The J's mainline and this is in use to this day.

Nickname for similar steep grade in Pueblo Yard (ATSF/BNSF) is "angels flight".

That is a striking grade, I assume the one you refer to is the one at the station across from the railway museum ?

Angel's Flight is south of 29th Street, opposite the State Mental Hospital which is on the north end of the Pueblo yard, north of the Midtown Shopping Center, 1/2 mile north of the yard tower. This was a connection to the main track to the receiving yard for the old hump. (Drops 20 feet in a big hurry)

Ah yes.. btw the ATSF 4-8-4 there really needs help. what is the story with that poor thing ?

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

QUOTE: Originally posted by mrunyan

CN/IC interchange track to the EJ&E is a short tight curve at Munger Junction in Illinois. Going straight on the CN mainline you go under The J's girder bridge. Taking the curve is a 10% grade, suddenly you are up at The J's mainline and this is in use to this day.

Nickname for similar steep grade in Pueblo Yard (ATSF/BNSF) is "angels flight".

That is a striking grade, I assume the one you refer to is the one at the station across from the railway museum ?

Angel's Flight is south of 29th Street, opposite the State Mental Hospital which is on the north end of the Pueblo yard, north of the Midtown Shopping Center, 1/2 mile north of the yard tower. This was a connection to the main track to the receiving yard for the old hump. (Drops 20 feet in a big hurry)

Ah yes.. btw the ATSF 4-8-4 there really needs help. what is the story with that poor thing ?

Organisation that has it went broke while in process of rehabbing, now has New name and less lofty goals unless the $$$$ is in hand. Got to where it is in 1998 after static display site (near the old MoPac freighthouse) became part of the riverwalk site.[:D]

[Anonymous]

I am surprised no one has mentioned the original Cascades crossing of the Northern Pacific in 1887. It was a set of five switchbacks with grades of 5.6% in places.

Two locomotives (one at either end) would wrestle 5 cars at a time up and down the mountain. They had a pair of Baldwin 2-10-0 locomotives built specifically and used exclusively on the switchbacks. Eventually this track was bypassed by the Stampede Tunnel.

[Anonymous]

The CPR has a monster grade going into the fertilizer plant at Warfield from the Trail Smelter. Note sure what the specific slope, however, it is awesome!!!

[Modelcar]

...It is beyond me how crews handled trains on such mountain grades as mentioned above before the advent of air brakes....and perhaps even after the initial installation of them when they perhaps were still a bit crude....It's a wonder half the traffic didn't get away from them on the downgrades....I know loads and rolling stock were much smaller then but still gravity pulls agains any weight....

[jkubajakiii]

I'm not sure if this one counts because it wasn't used since 1928. I am talking about the ORIGINAL Rollins Pass, BEFORE the Moffat Tunnel. 4% in both directions, up AND down for 27 MILES! It may not be as steep as Saluda Mountain, but it was THE WORST. Because its 12,660 ft. summit (if I remember correctly) is above the tree line, snow was always a major factor to the old Denver & Salt Lake. The SP only needed rotaries on bad yaers, while the D&SL run their rotaries NINE MONTHS out of EVERY YEAR! There were even horror stories of trains being stalled even DOWN the 4% grade!
You can understand why no one missed "Hill Hell" when the Moffat opened in 1928!
[{(-_-)}]

[fly2try]

Does anyone know how steep the NC&Stl was from Cowan to Sewane in Tennessee?

[Anonymous]

suldua is one of the steepist railroad grades on the easternseaborad that is the only one other the crawfort noutch in new hampshere

[Modelcar]

...Saying Saluda is the steepest...one must qualify the statement by describing it as "on a main line and class 1 RR".....Generally accepted grade figures are 4.7% {avg.}, with spots of about 5.1%. Of course it's not operational now, but has been until just a few years ago and for the most part is still in place.....{I'm still wondering if that massive land slide at one point on the grade was repaired by NS}.....?

[dekemd]

There is no tower at Saluda. The runaway track switches were automatic. The switches normally stayed lined for the runaway track. There was a system that measured train speed at a certain point before each runaway track. If the train was less than 8 MPH (I think that's the correct speed) the switch would automatically line for the main. The downhill run required all trains to stop at the top of the hill and have a certain number of retainers set. NS also required a road foreman of engineers to ride with each train down the hill. Once at the bottom, the trains were stopped again so the retainers could be released. Most trains had to double the hill going up, some had to tripple the hill.

When I was there last summer the track was in good shape. NS has been maintaining it fairly well. It wouldn't take much to put it back in service. There has been some talk of reopening the line to relieve congestion on the Salisbury/Asheville line but so far nothing has come of it.

Derrick

QUOTE: Originally posted by shuffle3

With Saluda, you can probably blame "the bottom line" for it being out of service. If I remember that 2003 Trains article correctly, the uphill trains usually had to double their trains, which is a costly step. For the down grade, the tower needed a crew during operations to switch off any runaways - normal procedure called for setting the switch for the runaway track until the engineer signaled he had the train in good shape to take the mainline. Money still makes the wheels go round. (sigh)

[Modelcar]

...Derrick....Do you know anything of the status of the massive land slide that occured this year on the Saluda "hill"....I'm still wondering if it was repaired....The tracks were hanging in mid air with the ROW washed away from under it...A massive shift of ground....!

[CHIPSTRAINS]

THE EX-PRR TRACK AT MADISON,IN., HAD A SPECIAL SD7 ASSIGNEDTO THAT AREA , FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF NAVIGATING THAT "HILL". THERE WERE A FEW INDUSTRIES IN TOWN, [WHICH IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HILL] THAT IT SERVED, AND MORE AT THE TOP,[MAINLY "MADISON GROCERY"]. "TRAINS", MAGIZINE, HAD A INTERESTING ARTICLE ON IT A FEW YEARS BACK,BUT CAN'T REMEMBER THE ISSUE, BUT, IT DETAILED THE NEAR TRAGIC RESULTS OF WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THE"P.C." TOOK OVER AND SENT IN AN EX NYC SD7 W/O DYNAMIC BRAKES TO REPLACE THEEX-PRR UNIT THAT WERE SENT IN FOR OVERHAUL. TYPICAL MANAGERIAL "ERROR" "CHIP"[:D]

[Anonymous]

The Madison Hill is a 7,012' incline plane of 5.89% grade. A detailed history of the Railroad, which became part of the Pennsylvania System may be found here: http://www.hometown.aol.com/ma393/railroad/index.htm Photo of the hill & other info at: http://www.jcohs.org/main.asp?SectionID=10

[martin.knoepfel]

AFAIK, the Madison-Incline engines were the first steam engines to be able to run on rack and straight adhesion.