TV just broadcast Amtrak's David Gunn fired...!!!!!!

[PNWRMNM]

Mr. Gunn was a rare bird in Washinton, someone who told the truth. I imagine that he went out with his head held high. I hope he enjoys the rest of his retirement.

Mac

[bbrant]

QUOTE: Originally posted by miniwyo

Alright, First of all, What does Bush have to do with this guy getting fired? From what I have read, it sounds like the Board incharge of Amtrak did it.

My opinion - it's more angry liberal democrats venting their own frustrations. To them, Bush always has been and always will be evil. Whether it's Amtrak or those darn evil companies that turn a profit, they like to point their fingers. Blaming Bush for Gunns firing is no exception.

Brian

[AntonioFP45]

Brain,

It could be, however you have to realize that President Bush himself wants to eliminate Amtrak's subsidies, so Bush will be blamed. That's a given.

[bbrant]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Brain,

It could be, however you have to realize that President Bush himself wants to eliminate Amtrak's subsidies, so Bush will be blamed. That's a given.

True. But from my take on some of the posts are that eliminating some, but not all, subsities and eliminating Amtrak are being considered the same thing. Bush is trying to make Amtrak stronger by getting them to generate revenue on their own rather than rely on Gov. funding. To me, that's not a bad thing.

That said, a lot of people think that no Gov. funding = no Amtrak and that's not the case. That's where a lot of people are thinking it's a case of Bush out to eliminate Amtrak and the finger pointing begins.

[eolafan]

Did they fire him while standing on a grassy knoll?

[jchnhtfd]

Please refer to the new thread I'm creating; I'd really like some sober feedback!

[Modelcar]

Brian....I know you and I have no agreement on this subject....and I want to keep it on the subject of the firing of Mr. Gunn and probably why and how was it done for what purpose.....We all have our opinions on the why's, etc....so no use to ha***hat back and forth...We get nowhere. Lots of facts out in front of us on this one.....President Bush..{not an angry Liberal}, simply wants to get rid of Amtrak as he has stated in so many ways...and by seeking to eliminate funding proves he meant what he implied...That didn't quite work as congress didn't completely go along with it....Mr. Gunn has been a dedicated to the task leader trying to do what he can with the system with what monies have been available and making it work for the most part and maybe just a bit better than the administration would like to see it working as that then makes it a bit more difficult to do away with it...hence he becomes a non team player in their eyes and it seems the board was convinced {in some way}, that this man had to go....so the agressive leader was canned...to get him out of there....
We'll watch to see just what kind of "agressive" leader is installed and then we'll get an updated idea just where all this is taking this rail passenger system....

[jeaton]

Looking over a few of the 100's of news articles that a Google search turned up on the subject, I found that the questioning of the Amtrak Board's decision is bi-partisan and only his biggest critics flat out accused him of being incapable of "moving forward".

Two interesting things have happened since the announcement. In a nonbinding vote, the House of Representatives instructed House Conferees to go with the $250 million higher Amtrak appropriation passed by the Senate. A house committee has scheduled a hearing on Gunn's dismissal for next Wednesday.

When Gunn was hired, Don Phillips wondered how Gunn might work out having to deal with an administration looking to cut domestic government expenditures. Phillips suggested that no matter the outcome, when his term came to an end Gunn would be forthright in telling the story.

I think that we be learning more about this story as the days pass.

Jay

[cnw4001]

Don't know why all the anguish, now the private interests can step in and get a chance at running a profitable business.

Oh, they have some beachfront land in Arizona they have to sell first to raise their startup capital.

Dale

[TomDiehl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CopCarSS

At the risk of getting everybody in the forum upset with me...

If it's part of "The Plan" to fire Gunn and kill Amtrak, I say let it die. The coming energy crisis will force the issue when the time is right, and we'll see passenger trains on the tracks again. Perhaps at that time, it will be better received, and a man of Gunn's talents at the helm could truly bring the dream that we all have for passenger rail travel to fruition.

Stepping off the [soapbox] and putting on the asbestos suit!

Unfortunately, once the infrastructure is dismantled, and the agreements with the freight railroads is allowed to lapse, it may be very difficult, if not impossible, to reassemble Amtrak and it's agreements. Remember, the railroads only agreed to the useage by Amtrak in exchange for taking the passenger trains off their hands (and balance sheets). And such specialized shops facilities aren't just sitting around to subcontract the work, waiting for that day to come.

[TomDiehl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bbrant

QUOTE: Originally posted by miniwyo

Alright, First of all, What does Bush have to do with this guy getting fired? From what I have read, it sounds like the Board incharge of Amtrak did it.

My opinion - it's more angry liberal democrats venting their own frustrations. To them, Bush always has been and always will be evil. Whether it's Amtrak or those darn evil companies that turn a profit, they like to point their fingers. Blaming Bush for Gunns firing is no exception.

Brian

Liberal Democrats:

From Funk And Wagnalls:

Lib-er-al (we know how to pronounce it) Free from narrowness, bigotry, or bondage to authority or creed, as in religion; inclined to democratic or republican ideas, as opposed to monarchical or aristocratic, as in politics; broad; popular; progressive

So you're saying that we're being led by "monarchial or aristocratic" leaders not "inclined to democratic or republican ideas."

Couldn't agree more.

Or you mean like those "darn evil companies that turn a profit" from no-bid contracts to rebuild Iraq? It was just a coincidence that the VP used to be on the BOD of that company.

[Modelcar]

...Oh so true....Once it stops, it {the system and what it takes to run it will be gone forever}....Then the opposition will be satisfied. And who knows where they will spend the money then....

[CopCarSS]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl
Unfortunately, once the infrastructure is dismantled, and the agreements with the freight railroads is allowed to lapse, it may be very difficult, if not impossible, to reassemble Amtrak and it's agreements. Remember, the railroads only agreed to the useage by Amtrak in exchange for taking the passenger trains off their hands (and balance sheets). And such specialized shops facilities aren't just sitting around to subcontract the work, waiting for that day to come.

Maybe, but at the same time there are markets where passenger travel is expanding. Look at Metra in Chicagoland. They're extending two lines that I know of, and talking about more.

Freeing the railroads of passenger responsibilities could have been accomplished just as easily by allowing the regulation of passenger trains to lapse. In which case, there would have been no Amtrak, and we would all be waxing philosophically about the halcyon days of rail travel, and great trains like the 20th Century Limited, the Super Chief, and the like.

I'm still of the opinion that a quick death is the best path for Amtrak in today's society. It may hurt in the long run, but we'll just have to wait and see what happens in the world in the future.

[Anonymous]

If you had trouble with my previous link to congressional email addresses then here are some more for you to try:


http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/


http://www.conservativeusa.org/mega-cong.htm

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

...Oh so true....Once it stops, it {the system and what it takes to run it will be gone forever}....Then the opposition will be satisfied.

And who knows where they will spend the money then....

Once Amtrak is gone there will be NO more national passenger rail service. The American people MUST band together now to keep any national passener rail service or we will have none.


If Amtrak is killed that will just be more money for Halliburton contracts. [:(!] No wonder the pres and vice are pushing for Amtrak to be killed.

[Modelcar]

....As suggested in above post of cutting off Amtrak for a quick death....Ok, but include the NEC with all the rest....We don't want to pay just for part of it....If all others must stop...then stop that busy section and see what problems that creates....It boggles my thoughts that so many are he** bent on eliminating our national passenger system...instead of trying to make a few improvements to make it work better but seem to be ok with supporting so many other efforts in the world {with our tax money}....for other people. Even refurbish railroads for others....

[CopCarSS]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes
[Once Amtrak is gone there will be NO more national passenger rail service. The American people MUST band together now to keep any national passener rail service or we will have none.


If Amtrak is killed that will just be more money for Halliburton contracts. [:(!] No wonder the pres and vice are pushing for Amtrak to be killed.

Jim,

Your second paragraph is a dangerous way to look at the situation. There's a lot of stuff that the money could be applied to rather than Halliburton contracts. How about the clean-up in areas affected by the record setting hurricanes of this year? Katrina alone is going to cost billions and billions of dollars before its all said and done.

I fear too many comments like this could send this spiraling into yet another thread full of conservative ~vs~ liberal hate filled name calling. Thus far we've stayed pretty close to the topic, with only occasional references to the current administration. Those references were always related to the topic on hand, and not generalized contempt irrelevant to our current topic.

I like that you've posted the links to congress. I think far too many people neglect their opportunities to voice their concerns to those they've elected to represent them. Voicing one's concern to one's congressmen in a well worded letter does a lot more good than most people think. I think elected officials would tend to listen to the concerns of those who voice their concerns as they know those that take the time to write will be in the ballet box every opportunity they are afforded.

Perhaps one other outlet you might try to tap is the media. Outline the topic in a clear, concise letter to your local media, and see what happens. There might not be any repsonse, but if there is, think of the publicity that a single newspaper article could generate. It could potentially start a snowball effect.

This is of course all just my [2c] on the matter, though.

[TomDiehl]

And if you want a bit more of the facts and figures of the stupidity of this move:

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/am2Copy/News_Release_Page&c=am2Copy&cid=1093554022797&ssid=180

Since Amtrak would be so heavily audited, I think we can believe these figures. Ironically, this release was dated October 19, and the one "releasing" Gunn was dated November 11. I guess you shouldn't do too good a job.

[Anonymous]

I read somewhere that congress will be having a hearing next week regarding the firing, but I can't remember where I read it. Has anyone heard about this, and is Gunn going to be there?

[Modelcar]

Wow....what a shame. The firing of Mr. Gunn and comparing his performance to produce results such as listed in above post...must provide a bewildered and sad feeling for him.

[CG9602]

Here's one thing to think about for those who want to privatize or shut down rail service: How aboput privatizing every last inch of the Interstate Highway System, and having the new owners charge what the market will bear? We expect Amtrak to turn a profit, how about expecting the same of the Interstates? Oh, and while you're at it, privatize all metropolitan airports, and the entire U.S. air traffic control system. If you can't afford to by stock ownership in a particular airport, have a rule that your airline can't serve that city. How many airlines would stay in business if they had to build airports completely from the ground up?

I say, if we are going to privatize intercity and interstate rail service, let's privatize the Interstate Highways, make them all toll roads, as well as my suggestions regarding airports.

/sarcasm/ Oh wait - that might force us all to recognise our contradictions! Heaven forbid, we can't have that! /sarcasm/

[Modelcar]

...Info of hearing was in newpaper today...{I believe it's next Wednesday}.

[Anonymous]

Just found a little more information on that hearing using Google news search. Apparently Rep. Oberstar of Minnesota is seeking a hearing next week in which Gunn would testify. Sen. Schumer of New York and other democrats say the removal may have been illegal. I doubt there is much chance that Gunn could be reinstated, or is there?

[BaltACD]

QUOTE: Originally posted by swknox

Just remember Mr. Bush is the puppettier controling all the strings.... I think the democrates are going to kick the republicans butt in a year in the next round of voting.

Cheney is the 'silent' puppettier....Bu***he puppet and mouthpiece. They are both dragging this country down, down, down the slippery slope to polarization and decline.

[CopCarSS]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CG9602

Here's one thing to think about for those who want to privatize or shut down rail service: How aboput privatizing every last inch of the Interstate Highway System, and having the new owners charge what the market will bear? We expect Amtrak to turn a profit, how about expecting the same of the Interstates? Oh, and while you're at it, privatize all metropolitan airports, and the entire U.S. air traffic control system. If you can't afford to by stock ownership in a particular airport, have a rule that your airline can't serve that city. How many airlines would stay in business if they had to build airports completely from the ground up?

I say, if we are going to privatize intercity and interstate rail service, let's privatize the Interstate Highways, make them all toll roads, as well as my suggestions regarding airports.

/sarcasm/ Oh wait - that might force us all to recognise our contradictions! Heaven forbid, we can't have that! /sarcasm/

It's kind of interesting that when railroads were just catching on in this country that most major long distance roads were privately owned toll roads, and that airline travel didn't exist. Railroads and Water Travel (especially canals) were heavily subsidied by both the Federal and State governments, as they were the main ways to travel at that time. Kind of like autos and airplanes today. Majority rules. Sorry.

[jeaton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jarubel

Just found a little more information on that hearing using Google news search. Apparently Rep. Oberstar of Minnesota is seeking a hearing next week in which Gunn would testify. Sen. Schumer of New York and other democrats say the removal may have been illegal. I doubt there is much chance that Gunn could be reinstated, or is there?

My personal view? Dave Gunn wouldn't come back on the job even if we built a high speed passenger railroad from the back 40 of his Nova Scotia farm all the way to the Amtrak offices in Washington Union Station.

[Modelcar]

...I have no idea if Mr. Gunn would be present to testiy but if he would I'd believe it sure would be interesting....

[Anonymous]

Looks like that hearing will be on Tuesday.

November 15
Subcommittee on Railroads
Hearing on
Current Governance Issues at Amtrak
10:00 a.m.
2325 Rayburn House Office Building

http://www.house.gov/transportation/rail/schedule.html

[Anonymous]

The board members that voted to Fire Mr. Gunn have all been appointed by Bush. Draw your own conclusions.

[CopCarSS]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dave e

The board members that voted to Fire Mr. Gunn have all been appointed by Bush. Draw your own conclusions.

OK. Andrew Johnson was Abraham Lincoln's Vice-President. Draw your own conclusions.

Chris
Denver, CO