TV just broadcast Amtrak's David Gunn fired...!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

I am bringing this thread back. It has a good mix of pros and cons.

It also had the addys for contacting congress.

The thread I just stated about Phillips and Wrinn's comments on Gunn and this thread should compliment each other.

[Modelcar]

....It is doomed if the leadership we have now is not stopped. Trouble is, where do we {they}, find a {railroad leader}, to carry it forward with improvements....On the other hand I suppose a railroad leader is not what they seem to want......

[Anonymous]

The Amtrak Board gets rid of an experinced Railroader, do they know something we don't. Is the passenger Train doomed in America?

I will keep watching from across the pond in England, look what happened to us!

[BaltACD]

Remember...AMTRAK was designed by Congress to FAIL.

Bush/Minetta believe they have a mandate to implement the 1970 Congress' wishes

Gunn was preventing that failure.

[Modelcar]

....What was so obvious that we should have seen it coming.....? Do you mean of Mr. Gunn standing in the "way"......

[Simon Reed]

From a European - but very Amtrak aware - perspective...I can't believe you did'nt see this coming.

Now I've got to save up for lots of "Last train to ..." transatlantic trips, so I suppose I'll be helping US transportation policy in the way your democratically elected representatives would approve of, by using the airlines to get to places like Oklahoma City, and Portland ME, and Grand Rapids....

The list goes on and on.....

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by sammythebull

As a UTU member based by what Gunn has said on record this yr concerning Amtrak labor, I have to say his ousting is a step in the correct direction. In a May hearing on Capitol Hill, Gunn clearly stated that he wanted to change all labor contracts, cut wages, slash benefits, cut asst condr off trains, expand runs w/only one engr in the cab, slash rr retirement for new hires, out source work currently done by Amtrk paid workers, open routes to scab non union operators and cancel the Federal Employee Liability Act and working conditions free from the Railway Labor Act. UTU has gone on record stating Gunn is the worse head of Amtrk they have ever dealt with. Gunn is the first to directly attact its dedicated work force. I want to see Amtrk suceed but changes are going to have to be made in how things are done. Messing w/a skilled and dedicated work force is not one of them. Now if we can get Mineta unemployed and out on the street, then that would be a five star slam dunk.

You really think the guy they pick to replace Gunn will be more "union friendly"?

Where you been the last 5 years?

All that Gunn proposed will come to pass, only many times worse.

With Gunn, at least you likely would keep your contract and get to negotiate. If things go the Amtrak board's way, Amtrak will be forced into bankruptcy, the courts will kill your contract and impose what ever the Amtrak board desires, you won't be able to strike over it - and there likely will be far, far fewer Amtrak trains and jobs than if Gunn was still around.

You still think firing Gunn was "a step in the right direction"?

Whew!

[Anonymous]

It sure would be nice to read a topic entitled, "Gunn Rehired, Mineta Fired, Current Amtrak Board Dismissed."

THEN we could really get down and start reshaping Amtrak into what it needs to be. Of course we have to wait till the current administration is gone. They are standing in the way of progress and having true national rail passenger service.

Our current system is better than nothing BUT, we need more service than currently offered. We need at least one more east-west train running through the middle part of the country. Currently to go east or west I must go to Chicago or San Antonio then change to a train running east-west. However, both Dems and Reps have neglected to fund Amtrak at a level where they could operate. Now maybe that is changing. However, we must keep Amtrak together and not let this administration trash it. I have ridden Amtrak and hope to do so in the future. I would much rather see my tax dollars fund Amtrak than trains in Iraq (sorry Mark).

I know this topic is nothing but politics from the gitgo but please try and keep name calling and personal attacks out so we can discuss the revelant topic.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by sammythebull

As a UTU member based by what Gunn has said on record this yr concerning Amtrak labor, I have to say his ousting is a step in the correct direction. In a May hearing on Capitol Hill, Gunn clearly stated that he wanted to change all labor contracts, cut wages, slash benefits, cut asst condr off trains, expand runs w/only one engr in the cab, slash rr retirement for new hires, out source work currently done by Amtrk paid workers, open routes to scab non union operators and cancel the Federal Employee Liability Act and working conditions free from the Railway Labor Act. UTU has gone on record stating Gunn is the worse head of Amtrk they have ever dealt with. Gunn is the first to directly attact its dedicated work force. I want to see Amtrk suceed but changes are going to have to be made in how things are done. Messing w/a skilled and dedicated work force is not one of them. Now if we can get Mineta unemployed and out on the street, then that would be a five star slam dunk.

Sammy -

I can understand your not supporting some of the cuts Gunn proposed in labor wages, positions and benefits. I agree with you on most of those points. On one point we differ a bit. Gunn wanted to keep Amtrak together an a network, not parcel it out to private (scab) operators. That is a BIG part of why he is gone. Sadly, unless Mineta and Bush can be stopped that is exactly what will happen and that great workforce, well, perhaps a few will hang on, but that's all...

I'm not so sure getting rid of Gunn is worth a trip from his frying pan to the fire, that's all I'm saying...

LC

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CopCarSS

QUOTE: Originally posted by TRAINMANTOM

AS FAR AS THE AMTRAK BOARD AND THE BU***EAM GO " SEND IN THE CLOWNS ,DONT BOTHER THEIR HERE"

Please don't shout Sondheim. It's a soft song.

Chris
Denver, CO

You've never heard the Dickie's doing the Punk Rock version have you?[:p]

[:o)][:o)][:o)][:o)][:o)]

[Anonymous]

As a UTU member based by what Gunn has said on record this yr concerning Amtrak labor, I have to say his ousting is a step in the correct direction. In a May hearing on Capitol Hill, Gunn clearly stated that he wanted to change all labor contracts, cut wages, slash benefits, cut asst condr off trains, expand runs w/only one engr in the cab, slash rr retirement for new hires, out source work currently done by Amtrk paid workers, open routes to scab non union operators and cancel the Federal Employee Liability Act and working conditions free from the Railway Labor Act. UTU has gone on record stating Gunn is the worse head of Amtrk they have ever dealt with. Gunn is the first to directly attact its dedicated work force. I want to see Amtrk suceed but changes are going to have to be made in how things are done. Messing w/a skilled and dedicated work force is not one of them. Now if we can get Mineta unemployed and out on the street, then that would be a five star slam dunk.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

...I don't mind my tax dollars going to Amtrak....even though I don't get to ride it that much....Better still, I'd like to see it improved and I don't mind paying for that either if it's being done by someone we have trust and confidence with...Such as Mr. Gunn...There are plenty of happenings in this country that are tax supported that an individual may not be directly getting the benefits from.

I have ridden Amtrak and look forward to the time when I can again. I have never ridden any train in the Northwest Corridor, yet my tax dollars go to fund those trains. If Amtrak is shut down ALL of Amtrak should be shut down. This cut it up and piece it out is nonsense.

If this country can fund trains in Iraq, why can't we fund them here?

If you have not emailed your congress people please do so. There are several links on (about) page 3 to help you.

Please do not let the current administration piece out Amtrak. Please do not let the firing of Mr. Gunn go unnoticed in congress.

IF you have not emailed, called, or written your congress people DO IT NOW. Folks it is now or never for Amtrak. Don't let Amtrak die at the hand of this current administration.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

...I don't mind my tax dollars going to Amtrak....even though I don't get to ride it that much....Better still, I'd like to see it improved and I don't mind paying for that either if it's being done by someone we have trust and confidence with...Such as Mr. Gunn...There are plenty of happenings in this country that are tax supported that an individual may not be directly getting the benefits from.

I have ridden Amtrak and look forward to the time when I can again. I have never ridden any train in the Northwest Corridor, yet my tax dollars go to fund those trains. If Amtrak is shut down ALL of Amtrak should be shut down. This cut it up and piece it out is nonsense.

If this country can fund trains in Iraq, why can't we fund them here?

If you have not emailed your congress people please do so. There are several links on (about) page 3 to help you.

[Modelcar]

...Divided government seems to have the checks and balances we really need to keep it from running amuck...with our money and making good decisions.

[BaltACD]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Well said

Another thing that irritates me about politicians is their rhetoric and lack of intelligent decision making processes that are need to run things. Most of thease politicians falls into at least the whimp or moron category. No wonder why nothing works right-they are the reason. Perhaps thease folk should submit a resume with references to see if they are trully up to job because for so far in both of our countries, I am not particularly impressed with the majority of politicians.

I has been my observation, in the US at least, the government is most fair and effective when the President and Congress are controlled by the different political parties. When both are in the hands of the same party (and I don't care if it is Republican or Democrat) that party and it minions feel they can do anything they want. When the President and Congress are controlled by different interests, then they must work together and compromise their entrenched positions to accomplish anything. With the US government now being in the control of the Republicans they are fulfilling the saying, 'Absolute Power corrupts...absolutely!'

[Junctionfan]

Well said

Another thing that irritates me about politicians is their rhetoric and lack of intelligent decision making processes that are need to run things. Most of thease politicians falls into at least the whimp or moron category. No wonder why nothing works right-they are the reason. Perhaps thease folk should submit a resume with references to see if they are trully up to job because for so far in both of our countries, I am not particularly impressed with the majority of politicians.

[BaltACD]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

The firing of Gunn is just the a simple political exercise of stupidity. Thease guys don't care about what they do, they simply want to be re-elected or become something higher. What's my point?-thease guys are s&*t-heads because anybody else would normally take pride in their work or move on. Why would Amtrak board of directors try to ruin Amtrak when that means they would be out of a job-something stinks here.

Are thease guys awesome or what? "Let's spend alot of our time pretending we give a crap about Amtrak and then try to shut it down"........this is the impression they are giving me.

You can understand why people have little patience with politics because really, it doesn't work. Mean time, Mineta- the Secretary of Worthless Transportation, continues to pretend he is worth his weight in gold. More like the worth of dirt if you ask me.

Politics....Politics...Politics

Watching the political process is a lot like watching sausage being made....IT IS NOT SOMETHING YOU WANT TO WATCH. Would that something good comes out of this blatanly political firing, however, Sausage that is made by amatuers that don't care about the product and in fact want to get out of the business of even making sausage is generally not fit for human consumption.

[Modelcar]

...I don't mind my tax dollars going to Amtrak....even though I don't get to ride it that much....Better still, I'd like to see it improved and I don't mind paying for that either if it's being done by someone we have trust and confidence with...Such as Mr. Gunn...There are plenty of happenings in this country that are tax supported that an individual may not be directly getting the benefits from.

[Junctionfan]

The firing of Gunn is just the a simple political exercise of stupidity. Thease guys don't care about what they do, they simply want to be re-elected or become something higher. What's my point?-thease guys are s&*t-heads because anybody else would normally take pride in their work or move on. Why would Amtrak board of directors try to ruin Amtrak when that means they would be out of a job-something stinks here.

Are thease guys awesome or what? "Let's spend alot of our time pretending we give a crap about Amtrak and then try to shut it down"........this is the impression they are giving me.

You can understand why people have little patience with politics because really, it doesn't work. Mean time, Mineta- the Secretary of Worthless Transportation, continues to pretend he is worth his weight in gold. More like the worth of dirt if you ask me.

[oltmannd]

Admittedly 3 years old, but here are some poll results:

http://www.aprc.org/gov_support.htm

Doubt much has changed since 2002...

[Anonymous]

AS FAR AS THE AMTRAK BOARD AND THE BU***EAM GO " SEND IN THE CLOWNS ,DONT BOTHER THEY ARE HERE"

[Anonymous]

Nova Scotia will welcome him back, (retirement again). Maybe CN will hire him and get some trains running in Eastern Canada again. I miss trains.

[CopCarSS]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TRAINMANTOM

AS FAR AS THE AMTRAK BOARD AND THE BU***EAM GO " SEND IN THE CLOWNS ,DONT BOTHER THRIR HERE"

Please don't shout Sondheim. It's a soft song. If you must shout a Sondheim piece (and even then only in certain places), may I suggest "Comedy Tonight?" Getting the spelling correct on "they're" would probably be beneficial, too...

Chris
Denver, CO

[CopCarSS]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd
Now we're to the point of debate!

I think the issue isn't whether a majority of Americans consider using it, it's whether a majority of Americans want it around. The majority of Americans don't use Medicaid, but the majority think it should exist - even though it is a huge cost.

Every poll I've ever seen says the answer is "yes" - the gov't should keep funding or expand funding for Amtrak.

"Being worthy or taxpayer dollars " is a value judgement.

Does it really matter if we want it as kinetic art or useful transportation?

Well, if it's "Kinetic Art" then it can stay...though it was a little more artful with F40's instead of the new GE's! [:p]

I guess if the majority of Americans think it should exist, it would be hard to argue the point. I'm still a fan of voting by riding, rather than just paying lip service, but if America says it should exist, and doesn't mind footing the bill, then its pretty clear that Amtrak has a reason to be. Have there been polls done to prove that the majority does think it should exist? I'd be interested in seeing those numbers.

In the end, I'm still against it unless we can commit the kind of monies needed to make it what it should be instead of allowing it to limp on year after painful year. I'll also continue to ride Amtrak as long as possible so that I may vote by ridership.

[Anonymous]

AS FAR AS THE AMTRAK BOARD AND THE BU***EAM GO " SEND IN THE CLOWNS ,DONT BOTHER THRIR HERE"

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CopCarSS

QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd
Only if you can convince Congress it's for the common good. Providing for the common good is a constitutional mandate.

That's kind of my point. Is Amtrak really serving the common good? If the vast majority of intercity travelers never even consider Amtrak as a travel option, let alone actually riding it, is it worthy of taxpayer dollars? If yes, then we need to fund it the way it should be. If no, then let it die.

Now we're to the point of debate!

I think the issue isn't whether a majority of Americans consider using it, it's whether a majority of Americans want it around. The majority of Americans don't use Medicaid, but the majority think it should exist - even though it is a huge cost.

Every poll I've ever seen says the answer is "yes" - the gov't should keep funding or expand funding for Amtrak.

"Being worthy or taxpayer dollars " is a value judgement.

Does it really matter if we want it as kinetic art or useful transportation?

[BaltACD]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CG9602

Here's one thing to think about for those who want to privatize or shut down rail service: How aboput privatizing every last inch of the Interstate Highway System, and having the new owners charge what the market will bear? We expect Amtrak to turn a profit, how about expecting the same of the Interstates? Oh, and while you're at it, privatize all metropolitan airports, and the entire U.S. air traffic control system. If you can't afford to by stock ownership in a particular airport, have a rule that your airline can't serve that city. How many airlines would stay in business if they had to build airports completely from the ground up?

I say, if we are going to privatize intercity and interstate rail service, let's privatize the Interstate Highways, make them all toll roads, as well as my suggestions regarding airports.

/sarcasm/ Oh wait - that might force us all to recognise our contradictions! Heaven forbid, we can't have that! /sarcasm/

My sentiments exactly.

[mnwestern]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

F Y I

Do you remember the article in Trains a while back about Mineta wanting to end Amtrak? In his speeches he gave false information about Amtrak. Mr. Mineta KNOWS the truth. He sits on the Amtrak Board. YES, he is a board member.

I thought board members were suspose to do what is right for the company or organization they oversee. It appears that even though Mineta knows the truth he continues to spread untruth.

Dear Sir:
Unfortunately, reports are that Mineta, soon to be one of just two people (Laney) the other, left on the board, has apparently never attended an Amtrak board meeting in his 52 months on the board. Now, that is having your finger on the pulse of an agency you are supposedly overseeing!

Mineta and the whole Amtrak board should be unseated, immediately. A new board should be appointed but not by the president.

Mr. Gunn should be rehired, IMMEDIATELY.

I have never distrusted an administration more than the current one. This firing is nothing BUT politics.

[edbenton]

Actually since Amtrak is technically a corparation it requires a quarom to fire the CEO by the board of directors. Since the board is 7 members and only 3 people are on the board actually they did not have a majority of the board present.