Gunn to be fired

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JOdom

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

As far as I know GAO stands for Government Accounting Office, not ACCOUNTABILITY. They are a bunch of bean counters, not finger pointers. Politicians take the reports and do the finger pointing. Sounds like the old agenda is back, and Gunn is doing things right if he has them so pissed off.

The name changed recently. They do a lot of studies/audits/evaluations of various government entities and functions, along with a few oddball functions that don't fit any other place in the government.

Like another post, I wi***hey would get busy and expose some of the ridiculous pork barrel spending that goes on. However, they work for Congress, not the executive branch, so they aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them.

Hmmm, thanks for the update. I think I'll crawl back under my rock, where life is, if not pleasant, at least simple.

So, the GAO is the chicken's hired fox, lovely.[V][:(!][;)] (Yes, I mean to imply that congress is a bunch of chickens.)

Maybe North Korea or somebody will do us a favor and nuke Washington DC. This government needs some serious help.

[robscaboose]

I just e-mailed my 2 Senators. I can hardly wait to vote the bums out.

Rob

[cbq9911a]

A perfect example of the "How Dumb Do They Come" mentality in the White House. The powers that be there forget that passenger trains have a constituency in some states, and that they tend to vote at above average rates.

This is going to really hurt the Republican Party next year in Illinois, because people in Chicago ride trains. Unfortunate, because the Republicans have a candidate that could win the governor's race next year.

[PBenham]

More and more I am convinced that Amtrak unilaterally shot itself in the foot[:o)][soapbox]So, why not just tell the railroads upon which Amtrak's trains operate to pick up more of the responsibility for certain costs Amtrak runs up,and relieve them of all, or some of their tax liabilities.( More or less equal to the extra costs this move imposes on the carriers) Then Amtrak could afford to obtain new equipment and fix/repair the equipment it has.[:)] It would also get better treatment from dispatchers on certain routes! [banghead]This move is right down there with the Red Sox letting Theo Epstein go. Where is a workable successor, anyhow? Try talking a major carrier's VP/Ops or law into taking a pay cut for this hot potato![:0]

[chad thomas]

Why should the freight carriers bear the burden of Amtrak? That's not fair, They were relieved of that obligation 34 years ago (DRGW & Southern excluded)

[vsmith]

Prediction:

Amtrack as we know it will not survive 2006, it will be allowed to limp along until JUST after the mid-term elections, then CHOP! down comes the axe!

BTW did anyone forget that they are forcasting $5 a gallon for gas next summer??????

[coborn35]

"One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. "-Sir Winston Churchill

"The time to repair the roof is when the sun is shining."
-John F. Kennedy

"We need men who can dream of things that never were."
-John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963

"It is better to offer no excuse than a bad one."
-George Washington

"Never trust the advice of a man in difficulties."
-Aesop

"Self-conceit may lead to self-destruction."
-Aesop


Mineta.......

R.I.P. AMTRAK 1973-2006

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by coborn35

"One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. "-Sir Winston Churchill

"The time to repair the roof is when the sun is shining."
-John F. Kennedy

"We need men who can dream of things that never were."
-John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963

"It is better to offer no excuse than a bad one."
-George Washington

"Never trust the advice of a man in difficulties."
-Aesop

"Self-conceit may lead to self-destruction."
-Aesop


Mineta.......

R.I.P. AMTRAK 1973-2006

That's 1971 - 2006, and could you please remove a few cars from your signature. The caboose ain't prototypical anyway.[;)]

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bnsfkline

my god

David Gunn was the best thing to ever happen to Amtrak

My vote would go for Graham Claytor, but Gunn would be a close second.

[Modelcar]

....Chad....Aren't they {the freight railroads}, paid for that obligation...That is, simply to get the train over their tracks.

[jchnhtfd]

Modelcar and Chad -- the freight railroads are paid for the obligation to get the trains over the tracks. Not enough, but they are paid.

Take a look at my new thread on this...

and vsmith -- you are so right. About both the timing and the cost of gas. I might add that air fares will also rise, probably substantially, particularly in the northeast corridor shuttles; with Amtrak out of the picture (see my other thread -- through train service on the corridor will NOT survive) there is no reason for the airlines not to raise fares enough to begin to cover their losses.

[bbrant]

QUOTE:
And why should Bush care? Him and his rich cronies have their SUV and limo convoys they can ride around in. They certainly wouldn't lower themselves to use PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION. Gunn was the best man available for the job, but since he wouldn't get on board with the plan to bury Amtrak, he's history.

Maybe he'll shut down the Northeast Corridor and take the whole area from gridlock to parking lot.

When was the last time any president used public transportation, Amtrak or otherwise. Don't you think that they ride in special SUVs and limos for a reason?!?

[chad thomas]

Quinten, Jamie,

I know Amtrak compensates the freight RRs for use of there tracks. I was just saying the freight carriers shouldn't be forced to take back a money loosing bussiness, nor should they have to allow a passenger service a free ride.

[Big_Boy_4005]

So, let me see if I have this straight. The constituents of the current administration are, Haliburton, oil companies, airlines, railroads, other big business, cronies, suck ups, and anyone with money, or without a brain. I see how he got elected without my vote.

I guess Mr Gunn doesn't fit into any of the perfered catagories, making him expendable.

Wake up people, this is our country he's destroying.[:(!][:(!][:(!][V][V][V][:(][banghead][banghead][X-)][censored][sigh]

[jeaton]

Elliot

At the risk of getting my CPU burned to the ground, I think I will go along with your view.

Jay

[dharmon]

SWEET......It's the bi-monthly doom/gloom Amtrak is going to die, Amtrak hater vs. you can't be a railfan if you don't like Amtrak, let's bash Bu***hread...only we get two this week.....

Unfortunately it's not going to go. It will continue to exist like a coma patient. If it were up to me, I'd just pull the plug and let it go. Use the money to subsize or support regional transportaion initiatives that support the need of the regional customers, be it rail, air, road or donkey. Regional/commuter rail works...VRE, NEC, Coaster, Metrolink, TRE.....even Amtrak's Downeaster (a service created by demand of real users, not nostalgic foamers)..these are success stories. If government money is to be used to subsidize passenger rail, it should be run by the regions using it, not Amtrak. And long distance trains.....well leave that up to tour operators..if there is a market, the market will bear it out. If it's HSR you want...build it from the ground up and exclusive, not some rework of existing tracks.

As for the airlines and roads vs. Amtrak.....subsidies and such...these are what the people want and use and are critcial to the nation's economy, so will and should be funded accordingly. Amtrak doesn't even come close to measuring. It is not critcal to the economy, nor national defense.

I am for passenger rail. But Amtrak, isn't the answer.

Dan

A REAL AMERICAN ALSO..who thinks Amtrak's time has come.

[bbrant]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

So, let me see if I have this straight. The constituents of the current administration are, Haliburton, oil companies, airlines, railroads, other big business, cronies, suck ups, and anyone with money, or without a brain. I see how he got elected without my vote.

I guess Mr Gunn doesn't fit into any of the perfered catagories, making him expendable.

Wake up people, this is our country he's destroying.[:(!][:(!][:(!][V][V][V][:(][banghead][banghead][X-)][censored][sigh]

More proof the liberal left is coming unglued.

How can you see that cutting funding HELPS Amtrak. And if Gunn had to go, then that rests with the powers that be - not you or I.

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

So, let me see if I have this straight. The constituents of the current administration are, Haliburton, oil companies, airlines, railroads, other big business, cronies, suck ups, and anyone with money, or without a brain. I see how he got elected without my vote.

I guess Mr Gunn doesn't fit into any of the perfered catagories, making him expendable.

Wake up people, this is our country he's destroying.[:(!][:(!][:(!][V][V][V][:(][banghead][banghead][X-)][censored][sigh]

Hey! I think I was just insulted. [B)] Good thing I'm too stupid to realize it! [?]

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

SWEET......It's the bi-monthly doom/gloom Amtrak is going to die, Amtrak hater vs. you can't be a railfan if you don't like Amtrak, let's bash Bu***hread...only we get two this week.....

Unfortunately it's not going to go. It will continue to exist like a coma patient. If it were up to me, I'd just pull the plug and let it go. Use the money to subsize or support regional transportaion initiatives that support the need of the regional customers, be it rail, air, road or donkey. Regional/commuter rail works...VRE, NEC, Coaster, Metrolink, TRE.....even Amtrak's Downeaster (a service created by demand of real users, not nostalgic foamers)..these are success stories. If government money is to be used to subsidize passenger rail, it should be run by the regions using it, not Amtrak. And long distance trains.....well leave that up to tour operators..if there is a market, the market will bear it out. If it's HSR you want...build it from the ground up and exclusive, not some rework of existing tracks.

As for the airlines and roads vs. Amtrak.....subsidies and such...these are what the people want and use and are critcial to the nation's economy, so will and should be funded accordingly. Amtrak doesn't even come close to measuring. It is not critcal to the economy, nor national defense.

I am for passenger rail. But Amtrak, isn't the answer.

Dan

A REAL AMERICAN ALSO..who thinks Amtrak's time has come.

I MOSTLY agree with you, but I don't think there is a path from "here" to "there" without Amtrak.

I don't have a problem with $2B a year for Amtrak. I just want more for my money.

It would have been better to leave Gunn in place and reform Amtrak ala the Lott/Lautenberg route.

What's going on here seems to be a bunch of guys who don't know what they don't know, who have started to believe their own BS, calling the shots.

It may be a good idea to get states to chip in to cover train service thru their states, but the notion that they should cover the direct above the rail operating costs is a thinly veiled effort to kill trains. Too many useful trains run thru too many states - and need to serve all those states to be successful - for that to work. (a good example is the Crescent which serves a major city in 12 of the 13 states it runs in (NYC, Newark, Phila, Wilmington, Baltimore, DC, Charlotteville, Greensboro, Charlotte, Greenville, Spartansburg, Atlanta, Birmingham, NO.)

You MIGHT get two states to agree to some regional service, but generally the only places this has worked well is when a single state has complete control (California, Illinois, Penna). In every case where there are two or more states contributing, there has been controversy bordering on killing the service. NH has just about killed the Boston - Portland svc. Oregon has just about killed the Talgo. So, having multiple states kick in to keep something like the Empire Builder running doesn't even rise to the level of pipedream

You CAN make the case that Amtrak needs to refocus on shorter haul corridors, particularly in the east. The GAO wasn't completely all wet about sleepers and food service. Would the Crescent route be better off as two daylight trains than a single overnight train? (split at Atlanta, Atlanta to NYC and Atlanta to NO. or perhaps, split at Charlotte NC). Or perhaps, multiple freqency from NYC to Atlanta and foget about Atlanta to NO?

There are lots of things to consider, but firing Gunn was just plain silly.

[TomDiehl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bbrant

QUOTE:
And why should Bush care? Him and his rich cronies have their SUV and limo convoys they can ride around in. They certainly wouldn't lower themselves to use PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION. Gunn was the best man available for the job, but since he wouldn't get on board with the plan to bury Amtrak, he's history.

Maybe he'll shut down the Northeast Corridor and take the whole area from gridlock to parking lot.

When was the last time any president used public transportation, Amtrak or otherwise. Don't you think that they ride in special SUVs and limos for a reason?!?

Or when this "silver spoon" we have in office was still just some out of touch rich boy. I'd be willing to bet he's never had to use ANY public transportation in his lifetime.

I realize that there's need for security of high government officials.

[TomDiehl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

SWEET......It's the bi-monthly doom/gloom Amtrak is going to die, Amtrak hater vs. you can't be a railfan if you don't like Amtrak, let's bash Bu***hread...only we get two this week.....

There's LOTS of reasons to bash Bush, this just happens to be a railfan forum board.

[TomDiehl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bbrant

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

So, let me see if I have this straight. The constituents of the current administration are, Haliburton, oil companies, airlines, railroads, other big business, cronies, suck ups, and anyone with money, or without a brain. I see how he got elected without my vote.

I guess Mr Gunn doesn't fit into any of the perfered catagories, making him expendable.

Wake up people, this is our country he's destroying.[:(!][:(!][:(!][V][V][V][:(][banghead][banghead][X-)][censored][sigh]

More proof the liberal left is coming unglued.

How can you see that cutting funding HELPS Amtrak. And if Gunn had to go, then that rests with the powers that be - not you or I.

From Funk And Wagnalls:

Lib-er-al (we know how to pronounce it) Free from narrowness, bigotry, or bondage to authority or creed, as in religion; inclined to democratic or republican ideas, as opposed to monarchical or aristocratic, as in politics; broad; popular; progressive

So you're saying that we're being led by "monarchial or aristocratic" leaders not "inclined to democratic or republican ideas."

Couldn't agree more.

[bbrant]

QUOTE:

From Funk And Wagnalls:

Lib-er-al (we know how to pronounce it) Free from narrowness, bigotry, or bondage to authority or creed, as in religion; inclined to democratic or republican ideas, as opposed to monarchical or aristocratic, as in politics; broad; popular; progressive

So you're saying that we're being led by "monarchial or aristocratic" leaders not "inclined to democratic or republican ideas."

Couldn't agree more.

Um, ok then. You don't need to further prove my point.

Amtrak's board made their decision. Gunn is gone. It doesn't mean Amtrak is. No administration, dem or republican, would just up and eliminate a major form of transportation system in the US. Anyone with common sense should know that. To think the Bush administration wants to eliminate Amtrak is a fallocy. Seems like anyone who blames him is doing so for political purposes only. Just my two cents worth.

[Big_Boy_4005]

By the way people, my previous comments were not about party politics or liberalism vs conservatism. This country is supposed to belong to the people, not just the wealthy people.

These are my observations and impressions of the person in the White House. The person this country supposedly elected to represent them. The rest of the world is learning to hate us, and with good cause. He has managed to paint a target on us and weaken us with both his foreign and domestic policy, all the while lining his and his friend's pockets with taxpayer dollars.

It really bugs me when people get so hung up on one party or the other, that they can't see the big picture. Both parties are the same, stupid and self serving.

Ask yourself this honestly, Do you believe there is one member of congress who votes only for what the people need, and not for what they want to make them look good?

If you aren't outraged by the current administration's behavior, make an appointment for a CT scan.

[bbrant]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

By the way people, my previous comments were not about party politics or liberalism vs conservatism. This country is supposed to belong to the people, not just the wealthy people.

These are my observations and impressions of the person in the White House. The person this country supposedly elected to represent them. The rest of the world is learning to hate us, and with good cause. He has managed to paint a target on us and weaken us with both his foreign and domestic policy, all the while lining his and his friend's pockets with taxpayer dollars.

It really bugs me when people get so hung up on one party or the other, that they can't see the big picture. Both parties are the same, stupid and self serving.

Ask yourself this honestly, Do you believe there is one member of congress who votes only for what the people need, and not for what they want to make them look good?

If you aren't outraged by the current administration's behavior, make an appointment for a CT scan.

Your comments obviously show you lean to the left. ("Supposedly elected", "weakened our country", etc...) That's fine. You're entitled to your point of view. However, to say Bush is at fault is for Gunn getting fired?!? It's completely nuts and pure politics for anyone to say that. You, I and everyone else on here do not know what transpired behind the scenes or what events lead to Gunn getting terminated.

I've said it before....Amtrak is not going away. Not because Gunn was fired. Not because the gov. handouts aren't what Amtrak would like. You don't just eliminate a major mode of transportation like this. How hard can that be to understand? Just because Gunn got the ax doesn't mean the sky is falling.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I don't mind playing lightning rod for my views. Yes, it's fair to say I lean left, though perhaps not as far as some might guess from my posts. I am all in favor of fiscal responsibility, especially when it comes to a balanced federal budget. I also I think it's the little guy that needs representation in Washington, not big business. I don't believe in government hand outs, I just want to see a level playing field.

I never said that Bush fired Gunn, but Bush's much discussed policy toward Amtrak has been consistantly and clearly negative. Now, most of the people around here seemed to think that Mr Gunn was doing a pretty good job. This firing came like a bolt out of the blue.

We know who appointed Mineta, but who appointed the Amtrak board, and what was the reason for the sudden firing? The GAO thinks some money was wasted. Wait until we see the reports from the Katrina spending. Anyone care to bet whether the waste is bigger than Amtrak's annual budget?

This whole thing smacks of partisan politics. It was probably some senator who was opposed to funding Amtrak in the first place, that had the report drawn out of revenge. Clean and annonymous. Though we may never know if someone was whispering in his ear.

[Philcal]

As I see it, David Gunn has two problems. He's a railroader who knows what he's doing, and he tells it like it is. These seem to be two qualities the present administration has little regard for. News of Gunn's possible firing was on CNN last date. (11-09-05). No doubt the administration has a crony lined up for the Amtrak job, and no doubt it will be someone who knows nothing about railroading, and could care less.

[UPTRAIN]

All the politicians democrat or republican are all misinformed by that fricken retard of a secratary of transportation, that sits on the board, they ask him for information, and he throws those famous lies of his into the air, what an idiot...along with other words that I can't type on here....

[Dutchrailnut]

Maybe Vranich can run the job, he has been telling everyone in USA how Amtrak is F**k**p and how he would change things;-)

[PigFarmer1]

"Gunn to be fired". Pun intended???[:D]