define un-american

[Anonymous]

Not a problem.....;-)

[croteaudd]

One dictionary defines “un-American” as “[things] regarded as dangerous to the U.S.” “Regarded” implies seeing or understanding a matter. I prefer to go beyond that, and look at things dangerous to America whether recognized or generally unseen, and look at (or anticipate) the end result. The failure to do that may be the most un-American “danger” of them all.

[edblysard]

Sort of a "shoot em all, and let God sort em out" concept. Last time we tried that, it didnt work out so well.
Ed

[croteaudd]

To Ed:

No, don't shoot! Rather, I say make sure before shooting. If railroads and everybody else weren’t so reactionary and alienating toward known friends of the railroad, they would be better off. Though. I must say, some special agents gain some comfort when they recognize a railfan. Example: Two agents stopped a fan in the wee early hours on a public road because a crew became scared. The agents must have approached the vehicle with super great skepticism. Though they had never seen the fan before, they immediate recognized him as a railbuff! Their faces and voices showed great relief. One has to sympathize with the drama of the situation.

What is being suggested is that anyone, unless thrown into a violent situation, take the time to investigate the facts and who one’s friends may be. History is littered with those that didn’t do that, and who paid through the nose because of it. To have to pay through the nose is to be guilty of Un-Americanism.

[edblysard]

Hi Croteaudd,
Maybe I mis-read, but the last sentence in the post I responded to said things generaly un-seen and anticipate the end result.
Wondering how to anticipate something un reconized and unseen, and what reaction to take?
Although I do agree with the look before you leap concept you suggested in the last post, wish you had made that clearer in the other.
If you were to see my across the street neighbor, you would assume he was just another raghead here, spongeing off of America. In fact, he and his family are brand new card carrying citizens, who just chose to wear the dress and style of clothing they grew up in. So he is a un reconized quanity, do you view him as a threat just because he dosnt look like an american? How do you treat him, and his kids, because they wear robes and shawls on their head? He is learning the hard way that a lot of people have become somewhat paranoid, and do "shoot first", without finding any facts.
I find it hard to refer to anyone as un-american, just as I find it hard to view a terrier as a un-dog. You either are an american, or not.
If the intended reference was to acts that are un-american, well, thats different. But saying some one was un american, well, that covers about a billion people. The very phrase smacks of MaCarthyism, which should send shivers up and down any thinking human's back.
As to history being littered, that too is true. Empires, Monarchies, the Romans, even the dreded Soviets have failed and fallen. All were, for the most part, closed societies, where as we live in a open one.
And part of the price of that open socity is that unexpected acts can and will occure, without warning. Unless we are willing to give up most of our civil liberities, and our civil rights, we will continue to pay that price. I for one, didnt like living and traveling in Europe, and having to carry a passport, and show it to any cop or military personel in uniform. On the other hand, I do like living where I can get in my jeep, and drive coast to coast without any checkpoints, or having to justify why I am doing it in the first place. Sorta like watching trains.
As for who is our friend, who gets to decide that? I would take my muslim neighbor over a lot of people born here, due in part to the fact that he chose to leave his native land, and move here, based solely on the concept that here, he has rights, one of which is to speak his piece, and what he considers the most important one, the right to vote.
Maybe I missed some subtle part of all of this, but what I have gotten out of this so far is, if it aint waving the Stars and Stripes, it has to be dangerous and un-american.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironhorseman

no, being a railfan is NOT un-amercian. i don't know what word to use instead, but first we must DEFINE what un-american is. to me, un-american means burning of the stars and stripes. i love railroads and i love my country and i would never ever burn our flag even if i had a loaded gun to my head. this country was built on railroads. if you say being a railfan is un-american then you'd HAVE to say being a christian is un-Godly. see my point?

signed,
ironhorseman

[ironhorseman]

I hope we're not going to bring this topic up again. I only started this topic to counter that silly Trains Magazine cover story that got everyone riled up. Everyone on here this spring of 2003 was upset at the idea that someone would tell them they couldn't watch or photograph trains from public view. In the discussion I felt, at the time, how the word "un-American" was being misused. I wrote a nasty letter to the editor of trains about the subject but never mailed it in or posted it on the forum. Frankly, I felt the article was irrsponsible and misguided in an otherwise fine magazine overall.

Why do we take pictures of trains? Maybe because we've been inspired by those sleek pictures in Trains and other magazines. Maybe someday we'll all catch that stunning image on film and win a prize or recognition. The thought of "Award Winning" stamped on our photos is enough to give anyone goosebumps. Or we just want to remember the moment.

I personally don't want to go through this debate again. Enough people have had their blood pressure raised by the grade crossing topic.

[Anonymous]

Yo ironhorseman, you need to do a little research on the website where it shows you at the controls of an " SD70MAC". NOT!!!!!!! The UP doesn't own any "70MAC's. only SD70's. That should be corrected. sorry but i can be a stickler for details

[Anonymous]

gsetter:
The IRS says they would like you to e-mail them the name of the business or person who does not have to pay no income tax for seven (7) years. There is no such law.

[Anonymous]

Un-American = Railfan

Right?

LOL...just kidding...

LC[8D]

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironhorseman

no, being a railfan is NOT un-amercian. i don't know what word to use instead, but first we must DEFINE what un-american is. to me, un-american means burning of the stars and stripes. i love railroads and i love my country and i would never ever burn our flag even if i had a loaded gun to my head. this country was built on railroads. if you say being a railfan is un-american then you'd HAVE to say being a christian is un-Godly. see my point?

signed,
ironhorseman

First off I agree that rail-fanning is not un-American. Personally I have meet a great deal of un-Godly "Christians" (do as I say, not as I do). The same can be said for the definition of un-American and flag burning. Consider this thought. Please remember that Americans (not yahoos in other countries) who burn flags deaply believe that their country is in serious trouble and that they are trying to send a message of protest, just as deaply as you believe this is a terrible act. You may not like, but it is a fundemental right if citizenship to excercise your voice in protest. My two flags fly proudly outside my house but I dont foam at the mouth when I see protesters burning the stars and stripes. instead I thank God that I live in a country with the freedom to do such an act. The day we cannot excercise a right to protest like that, is the day the Teleban has won. If you want to talk about un-American activities, how come in order to experience decent high speed intercity rail service, I have to go to freeking Europe to experience it. In this country the Airlines have Congress in thier pockets and I have to fly in an airborne version of Greyhound to get from Point A to Point B. Love or hate Amtrack, its all thats left of rail service and it may not last thru another Administration. That is tragic.

[zardoz]

Well said, vsmith!!

We are already losing too much of our cherished freedoms in the persuit of protecting our "freedom". At what point will mr & mrs america realize how much they have already lost?

It has become so "unamerican" to protest or voice an opinion questioning the current policies of our government, that to do so will get you placed on a "watch list" of Big Brother, and almost guarantee a review of your live in accordance to the provisions of the Patriot Act.

The US has, so far, been the almost best place on Earth to live (with the possible exception of northern European countries like Sweeden and Denmark), and I am grateful to be living here. However...

The Constitution of the United States and the Bill of Rights are to me the most important documents ever written to further the cause of the human condition. Now if I could only find a place to live where these documents were honored...


p.s. to vsmith--we are surrounded by Vogons!!