Farmers complain about BNSF rates to STB

[Anonymous]

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/state/13031461.htm (Link)

Farmers air complaints about BNSF

Associated Press


BIG SANDY, Mont. - Grain growers angry about BNSF's freight service and rates shared their gripes with a federal official, who responded that absent a formal complaint, there is little his office can do.

More than 100 people gathered at Big Sandy High School on Friday for an appearance by Doug Buttrey, vice chairman of the federal Surface Transportation Board. Gov. Brian Schweitzer asked Buttrey to come to Montana and hear concerns about Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corp., based in Fort Worth, Texas.

A similar meeting took place later Friday in Scobey.

During the 2 1/2-hour Big Sandy session, one farmer after another complained about eroding service and high freight rates.

"We can only decide a case that has been filed with us," Buttrey responded.

Montana Senate President Jon Tester, a Big Sandy Democrat and farmer running for the U.S. Senate, said people in Montana agriculture "cannot wait a long time. If we file a case and it drags on ... we don't have the pockets that the railroad has" to sustain the case.

Buttrey said there are guidelines under which a mediator can hear small rate cases.

BNSF spokesman Pat Keim said rail rates respond to market conditions, and since 1981, rail prices have lagged compared to other farm expenses.

A consultant, Terry Whiteside, said grain growers in Montana and North Dakota encounter the nation's highest freight rates because the growers are served by only one railroad.

Montana's rail system has shrunk since deregulation began in the 1970s. The state has 2,000 fewer miles of railroad now than in 1975, said *** Turner of the Montana Department of Transportation.

"In Montana, 94 percent of the rail system is controlled by one railroad," he said.

Farmers have seen their cost of doing business rise with the expense of hauling grain farther and farther, as local elevators next to railroad tracks close. Eleven large, high-speed shuttle loaders have been installed in Montana, and some farmers find no alternative to taking their grain to those locations.

BNSF announced in June that it would raise shipping rates on grain loaded at 52-car elevators, the kind closer to many farms. But a month ago, BNSF undid the rate increase. Loading relatively close to farms still costs $200 more per grain car than at the shuttle loaders.

Demand for cars was strong in August and September because grain shippers released last year's corn at the same time as this year's wheat crop, said Keim, BNSF's government affairs director based in Helena. Now, he said, Midwest shippers are moving soybeans and this year's corn crops, and barge availability is limited because of hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

"The entire surface (shipping) system is stretched to its limits," Keim said.

He also said it is "a misnomer to say the railroad is driving small elevators out of business. Demand led to creation of the shuttle loader network."

Responded grain grower Darren Genereux of Big Sandy, "Pat makes us feel like BN is on the brink of bankruptcy. On Oct. 25, they reported all-time high quarterly revenue and freight rates were up 18 percent. This is all on the backs of the farmers."

Tester said that over the last 25 years, "farmers have had the screws put to them, but they handled that by increasing production." That will no longer work, he said.

"It's important that the Surface Transportation Board scrutinize those rates and make sure they are fair and affordable," Tester said.

Schweitzer said the railroad is a monopoly not living up to deregulation requirements intended to protect captive shippers, such as Montana grain growers.

"Competition is one of the most important things we should have out here in Montana and North Dakota," Schweitzer said.

Keim said he would convey the complaints to railroad officials. He was unable to say whether that report would make a difference, he added.



Edited do to having no sleep and misspelling :)

[edblysard]

Yeah, and?....

[Anonymous]

They must be engaging in a "Frame up" with all those "Framers"...FOFLMAO...

LC

[edblysard]

Farmers frame Futuremodal's forecast of future financial failure....

[mudchicken]

'scuse me, gotta go pick myself off the floor![(-D][(-D]

[greyhounds]

Farmers have been complaining about rail rates ever since there have been rail rates.

And politicians have been using the issue to get themselves elected for the same time frame.

And jounalists just love this, and any other, "controversy" to write about. It sells papers.

"A consultant said?" Consultants will generally say anything you pay them to say and "prove it" with a bunch of BS numbers - kind of like lawyers.

[JoeKoh]

well not only in the upper midwest but around here in ohio too.elevators and farmers are saying there arent enough grain cars at the elevators.the beat rolls on
stay safe
Joe

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds

Consultants will generally say anything you pay them to say and "prove it" with a bunch of BS numbers - kind of like lawyers.......

......and rail industry propagandists.

[Anonymous]

Yep, just post something about railroad rate gouging, and the ilks will slither up from the cesspool of arrogant idiocy.

[Anonymous]

For the record, the same article appears in the Missoulian:

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2005/10/30/breaker/doc436405640a4cc947450090.txt

There is one additional paragraph in the Missoulian version missing from the dfw version, next to the last paragraph above:

"I’m ***ed tired of subsidizing the railroad in Montana. Every time they shut down another elevator, more trucks run over our highways. Whenever they ship grain from Iowa, BNSF is the conduit to subsidize other farmers.”

Seems some folks think it is the railroads that are being subsidized, not necessarily the highways.

[edblysard]

Shows what you know...ilk don't slither...we shake, rattle and roll...and the plural of ilk is...ilk, not ilks.
Kinda like one deer, two deer, or a bunch of deer, but no deers.


[:D]

[Anonymous]

Why don't they ship Union Pacific?
Allan.

[CShaveRR]

The fram filter must have missed the title.

Suitable for framing.

[bobwilcox]

Its past time to give Montana to Alberta.

[jsanchez]

Sounds like BNSF needs to learn how to work with small customers better, I think this is one of the reason they are not earning cost of capital like Norfolk Southern. (which is pretty good at serving small customers)
I'll tell BNSF a business secret , small customers often grow into big customers. BNSF actually gave an award to the managers, who have been implementing these grain policies, that have done nothing but anger farmers, elevator operators, state legislatures, federal representatives, the public, and could fuel the case for reregulation. Reregulation would wind putting the rail industry back into the dark ages, so I hope BNSF somehow wisens up.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I don't see how small farmers, who are small customers, are ever going to grow into big customers. The amount of land in Montana that is arable is finite, and you can produce only so much wheat from that land. Crop yields will not expand ad infinitum, a farmer will have good years and bad years, but there is a limit to what will be produced in a good year.

[bobwilcox]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSSHEGEWISCH

I don't see how small farmers, who are small customers, are ever going to grow into big customers. The amount of land in Montana that is arable is finite, and you can produce only so much wheat from that land. Crop yields will not expand ad infinitum, a farmer will have good years and bad years, but there is a limit to what will be produced in a good year.

Small farmers virtually died twenty years ago after the credit crunch in the early 1980s. They are usefull when agri-business is after a political payoff such as a subsidy from the local evil railroad.

[Anonymous]

Talked with a couple of Framers today and they were saying with winter fast approaching, they need to hurry up and get this new house sheathed and enclosed. [:D]

[jwinter]

It's not just the farmers complaining. I've seen a number of articles about loggers siting the same complaints, car shortage/higher rates. Only difference is that CN is the naughty railroad in the Upper Michigan.
http://www.miningjournal.net/news/story/1023202005_new01-n1023.asp

[MichaelSol]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jsanchez

... that have done nothing but anger farmers, elevator operators, state legislatures, federal representatives, the public, and could fuel the case for reregulation. Reregulation would wind putting the rail industry back into the dark ages, so I hope BNSF somehow wisens up.

You can see from this thread alone that the historical arrogance of the rail industry is alive and well, and if BNSF provokes re-regulation, it will be no surprise to anyone ... except the rail industry.

Best regards, Michael Sol

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox

Its past time to give Montana to Alberta.

At least then Montanans would have two Class I's to choose from.

It's ironic you mention this, because I have always thought we should give the entire Northeast U.S. to Canada, and in exchange we'll take everything west of Ontario (Sorry, Junctionfan, I know you'd probably rather be with us, but geography is geography!) It's almost a win-win for all, we get rid of a political cancer and gain vast natural resources, they get to regulate and malevolate each other to their small stoney hearts' content.[:p]

[greyhounds]

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal

QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox

Its past time to give Montana to Alberta.

At least then Montanans would have two Class I's to choose from.

It's ironic you mention this, because I have always thought we should give the entire Northeast U.S. to Canada, and in exchange we'll take everything west of Ontario (Sorry, Junctionfan, I know you'd probably rather be with us, but geography is geography!) It's almost a win-win for all, we get rid of a political cancer and gain vast natural resources, they get to regulate and malevolate each other to their small stoney hearts' content.[:p]

Well, ... Oh, Well.

I wonder what it's like to not be limited by reality and reason. Things like facts. If you just don't let those things get in the way it must be fun. Not very productive, but fun.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I normally don't step into political frays if I can help it but as far as political cancers are concerned, there are many people who feel the same about certain inhabitants of Montana and Idaho since the states seem to attract certain bigots from the extreme right.

[jeaton]

We could also give Idaho to Canada, too. Near as I can tell, it is only good for a shortcut between Montana and Washington.

Interesting though. This forum's leading advocate of more regulations governing railroads would blast another section of our country for advocating regulations in such areas as worker health and safety, environmental protection, anti-trust laws and many other programs designed for the general welfare of out society.

The nice things about being a conservative is that it is easy to decide on a prefered course of action. "If it isn't beneficial to ME, then it is the mean spirited action of stoney hearted people who are out to regulate everything I do and rob me of my personal wealth in the process".

[MichaelSol]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSSHEGEWISCH

I normally don't step into political frays if I can help it but as far as political cancers are concerned, there are many people who feel the same about certain inhabitants of Montana and Idaho since the states seem to attract certain bigots from the extreme right.

You refer of course to Jeanette Rankin, who voted against US entry into both world wars, and Ted Kaczynski, the refugee from UC Berkeley, who was sending package bombs from his Montana address to anyone he felt was anti-environment. Idaho boasts of course Big Bill Hayward who blew up the Governor of Idaho because Big Bill thought the Guv was too "conservative," and Tony Boyle, nee Avery, Idaho, of course tried to keep his hold on the UAW, and his ability to continue to support the hard Left, by murdering the entire family of Jock Yablonski.

Politiics is one thing, "certain bigots," someone else ....

Best regards, Michael Sol

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I hardly refer to Jeanette Rankin, she had the courage of her convictions. Where is she when we need her the most? I do refer to such types as the Aryan Nation, survivalists, Randy Weaver, etc.

[SALfan]

Whatever his political convictions and whatever merit they might have, my understanding is that Randy Weaver went off and lived by himself, without trying to impose his views on anyone else or make life miserable for those who disagreed with him. The militant (and stupid) zealous liberals in certain Federal agencies at that time should have left him alone.

[MichaelSol]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSSHEGEWISCH

I hardly refer to Jeanette Rankin, she had the courage of her convictions. Where is she when we need her the most? I do refer to such types as the Aryan Nation, survivalists, Randy Weaver, etc.

The moral of the story being that you can single out just about any idiocy, and by careful ignorance, proclaim just about anything about anything. If you decided to do a survey of prominent environmental writers, they too would be represented in Montana, or any liberal cause for that matter. From my window, I see the Jeanette Rankin Peace Center, the National Wildlife Federation's national legal counsel office, the National Audubon Society''s national membership office. I also see a nationally ranked School of Business, a "world trade center," "national techology development center," the world's largest fire research center, and the headquarters of Region One, USDA, Forest Service. I also see a railroad, and I see the national headquarters of the Boone & Crockett Society occupying the depot of a former railroad. There is a "presence" but its pretty heavily representive of important national concerns.

I also see a WWII Memorial, and drove past a Vietnam and Korean War Memorial on the way to work.

On their plaques, I see that Montana contributed a higher percentage of its population to fight for America and American ideals in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and currently, than any of the states you gentlemen believe are more deserviing to belong in the "union." Bob Wilcox says he doesn't need'em, nor does he appreciate the sacrifice that farm families in Montana have endured for 80 years, so that people like Bob Wilcox can disparage their state and the many farmers who sent their sons to die. People like this disgust me, and when they do it from the safe confines of a railroad retirement that those sacrifices made possible, I am more than just revolted by these characters and their clever remarks. "Please send your sons to die, but don't you dare complain when your country permits you to be charged the highest shipping rates in the country."

There are probably more survivalists in California than there is population in the combined states of Montana and Idaho, more religious nuts in Texas and more anti-religious nuts in California, than there are farmers, or framers, east of the Rocky Mountain front, and more people in Massachusetts who still think Joseph Stalin was a pretty neat guy than in all of the Rocky Mountain states combined. We still don't have any atheists anxious to blow up federal buildings as they did in Oklahoma. We haven't had any election supervisors trying to jimmy the elections by election fraud to elect Democrats as in Milwaukee, Seattle, or St. Louis. Our staunchly liberal Governor in Montana, a Democrat, got elected the old-fashioned way, by counting real votes which apparently didn't include many survivalists et. al.. He got there, as a wheat farmer, by appealing to a broad popular sentiment in a state where the Republicans are seen as pro-railroad, and the Democrats are seen as representing the true interests of hard working people such as the wheat farmers, and rail workers who complain constantly about their "railroad."

But, a careful review of rail industry literature of the past century would show that this is a typical industry response: a demonstrable and continuing violation of federal law regarding rates by a railroad is transformed by innuendo into "something wrong" with ... the farmers, the states they're from, the shippers, the airlines, the government, the highways, the truckers, regulated rates, unregulated predatory rates, barges, government subsidies, the ICC, the STB, government tax policies and ... Randy Weaver. You name the distraction, they'lll come up with it ... or invent it.

By the way, I am aware that FBI "sharpshooters" shot and killed his unarmed wife while she was cradling a baby, his unarmed 14-year old son, and his unarmed Labrador retriever, each in the head. But I am otherwise unaware of who Randy Weaver is or what he did, or what his wife, 14 year old son, and Labrador retriever may have done to the country. Or what it has to do with railroading other than through Bob Wilcox's typical insidious remarks.

This is why railroad credibility on issues important to railroading continues to be met with derision by the broader business and political community. This industry is politcally tone deaf. I just finished Railroad Mergers by Richard Saunders and it was striking how the author chronicles in detail how the rail industry for nearly a century met each economic or regulatory challenge by petty and often even childish responses.

See the ludicrous comments on this thread for evidence that nothing has changed.

Best regards, Michael Sol

[bobwilcox]

Fellow Taxpayers-In 2003 Montana farmers collected $353,351,745 in USDA subsidies. This was an increase of 35% over 2002. See: http://www.ewg.org/farm/progdetail.php?fips=30000&progcode=total

[edblysard]