1956 is the year!!

[Anonymous]

That it all started to fall apart.

that's the year the Federal HWY admin decreed that there would be 41,000 miles of interstate Highway built.

Let's see, have we as a nation sprung forward since that time, or have we given up the grand mufti?

Gee, born in 1957 myself, they all look like the "good ol days" to me....

[sooblue]

Hi Anti:
*smile* Does "TheAntiGates" refer to Microsoft?
Being the first to reply leaves you open to a lot of BS but what the heck.
I think we're doing well for a growing Nation.
Technology has improved all our lives. I came on the scene in '53. Things seem better to me.
I like being able to hop onto the highway and trip out. What I don't like is when people try to divide all the different forms of transportation up and say one deserves to be subsidized and the other one needs to be done away with.
Someday we'll stop that nonsense and form a plan to use all the transportation to compliment each other. When we see how it can all work together we may even find that we WANT to subsidize it as a package. There is nothing that moves quantity better than Rail. There is nothing that moves people faster than Air. There is nothing as convenient as Auto. There is nothing that can distribute better than Trucking.
As far as Passenger service goes, We should give people choices, Rail works (or could) bus is excellent as a connector and auto is ofcourse convenient.
I don't want the "good old days" but I'd take a 56 t-bird.
Sooblue

[Modelcar]

....Putting all forms of Transport working together does seem to make sense. I wonder if the Gov. support for them will ever come as a package...but it sounds good to me. And way back when...Several of my buddies had 55, 56, and 57 T-Birds and I was the one in a Vette....It was fun.

QM

[Anonymous]

My idea of fun in the 60's was sitting near the NYC-GTW diamond in my home town and watching the trains roll through town.Then a trip uptown to see the muscle cars parade around in an endless circle. Nothing strikes more fear into your soul (and chest) than a full blown 426 hemi doind a burnout while the F's and Geeps blow through the other end of town.

[edblysard]

Little late in 58, new years eve to be exact. Im the guy at the light in the 71 Challanger, the one with the funny vents in the sides of the hood, 440 Hemi, ram air induction, borg warner trick stick shifter, micky T 50s on the rear. Looked like crap, ran like lightning. Ate a whole lot of cameros and trans ams, a vette or two, broke even with a really trick 57 Bel-air.
And your goverment really has no plan to make a uniform transportation system, to many beuracrats have to many special projects, none will surrender theirs in favor of the real public interest. but for a look at a oddly smart plan, check out TDOT, texas dept of transportation website, and check out the trans texas corridors. If only it was that easy.
Ed

[cabforward]

hiways had zilch to do w/change in anything except the small towns the interstate passed-by.. as has been mentioned in this forum beore, most nations' govts. operate their r.rs. .. their govt. decides issues bearing on pub. trans. ..here, private enterprise determines what works and what doesn't..
foreign govts. tell their citizens what will be provided for them, and that's it.. here, private enterprise decides what the public prefers and markets accordingly.. if one studies products embraced by the public and those rejected by the public, it becomes apparent that when the consumer finds something that interests him, he will spend money on it.. after wwii, consumers were more impressed by autos and highway driving than riding trains or local transit.. ergo, more cars were built and highways opened.. in foreign countries, new highways were built but europeans are accustomed to doing what they're told, and their govts. told them that trains were economical, cheap and frequent.. the europeans followed the lead of their govt., and continental trains have continued to be successful in the sense that they still run, not that they are moneymakers.. the govts. support their rail systems without question and joe six-pack supports the daily ridership..

if there was $$ to be made in u.s. pass.r.rs., somebody would have found it by now..
that there is such abysmal service means several things: capitalism will not support a losing operation; pass. r.rs. will not do well in u.s. due to inconsistent policies between the levels of govt. and the chaotic system of transportation auth. ( im talking about amtrak-type operations, not local transit ).. uncle sam will not foot the total $$, the states will not foot more than a small % of the $$.. the on-again, off-again attractiveness of pass. r.r. is not a hot stock investment for anyone.. r.rs. may well become the hot ticket again, but it wont be soon, and it wont happen with the present level of mistrust and micro-managment policies employed by would-be funding partners..

eisenhower is gone, so is elvis and the superchief, got it??

[Anonymous]

Hmmm, for ME, I think things went to pot in the time period between 1967, and 1985. But that's just my opinion. Railroads have been on the decline since the late 1920's...
Todd C.

[Anonymous]

Yes Indeedy,...I am the Anti-Redmond, Anti-MS, Anti-Gates, of biblical proportions...

He's so rich...and I'm so po...=)

Yes, technology is nice, some things are way better.

But, if you look at the Buying power of the dollar, the cost of a house, a car, a set of Living room furniture, etc in compare to a years wages, ...adjusting for inflation...the 50's were our High water mark..

Remember when the "word" was "Stay in school, oppose communism, and the american dream will be yours"?

Then the wording was changed to "can be yours"

Then the gold standard was 86'ed

Then, the Gov't decided that the cost of housing was causing unrealistic impact on the published CPI index?...so...IT WAS DROPPED from the calculation.

Can't you see the association? eg "The American Dream was an unrealistic goal for most folks"

In 56, even the Milkman could expect to buy a house, affordably,....look what happened to him..

OK, I was joking about the last part, but the last several years, I've been trying something "new"

Used to be, I'd see an ad on TV, latest and greatest xyz to open in town, and I'd be on the freeway to go check it out,...much like the rest of America.

Maybe I'm just getting older, but the "sizzle" is no longer more important than the steak.

When I get home from work, the car stays pretty much parked in the drive. If I want to eat out, I walk a block or three, to one of the Local restaurants, where the staff and manager recognize me as a regular, treat me exceptionally well. No "40 minute hustle" table turn,..etc

And ya know what? I like it better!! I've become a citizen of my Local environ,. with numerous businesses and service providers seeing me as "special", rather than just part of the "5:30 onslaught"

Thinking back, that's pretty much the world that Ward and June Cleaver lived in,...now isn't it?

Yeah I dig modern tech too.

Give me Gilligans Island and a T-1 line any day, and I'd be building a raft for the Skipper, the Professor, and Mr Howell to galantly sail out seeking our rescue, while I'd stay behind, you know, just to keep the girls safe... And I'd have all that I need ;-)

[Anonymous]

Sorry If I offended you....

But the I-state seems to have succeded best in making mediocraty ubiquitous...got it?

[Anonymous]

1973....remember N.O.W. ?? ;-)

[cabforward]

no offense taken.. but i haven't a clue about mediocrity and the interstate highway system..?

[Anonymous]

that "440" was a wedge....not a Hemi. ;-)

Nice car though,...3 duces, or dual Quads?

Those were some good years, back when the manufacturers had to sell 500 of something to qualify for NASCAR...Detroit turned some torpedos loose on the road, to be sure.

I'm not a big Ford man, but they released this "qualifier" back in like '66 or '67, that had 650 horses under the hood, off the dealers lot.

Guess they did quite a few things to try and "tone 'em down", put 'em in stationwagens that had heavy steel plating welded to the chassis to make them heavier, more "balky" etc.

Can you imagine some dodddering ol man buying one of those for his wife, "not knowing?"

Here Emma, I got ya something to pick yer groceries up in....

[Anonymous]

Look all around you. The american dream has become a long labored "grasp" where it used to be nearly a "shoe in" for anybody that wanted it.

All the "wonders of competition" have been most successful in making margins thinner, for the companies lucky enough to survive, and a great portion of the Jobs that were exportable have been done so.

The Gov't doesn't even have incentives to "make jobs" like they once did, instead they do NAFTA type trips to stiff Joe American, whenever practical.

[Anonymous]

Rick, you stumped me on that one, what's N.O.W.?

[edblysard]

Dual Quads, mechanical secondaries, only thing that really waxed me was a old guy, around 40, ( oh crap, now I'm the old guy, I'm 44) in a Javelin AMX. God that thing was fast. He got me off the start line, by a car lenght, and we keep it that way till the finish. That was a gorgeous car, the guy built it in his machine shop. Balanced, to design specs. roller rockers the works, just about every thing you could do, looked fantastic. Dont see any of them anymore. Last one I saw looked like it had been spraypainted, kid was driving, almost stoped him to ask what he would take for it. Kids nowdays buy a rice rocket, put what my 9 year old calls a fartmaster muffler on, and slap on real ugly wheels, and think they have a race car. Huh, my old MGB runs with most of them, and all I did was put a weber in place of that joke the british call a carb. Currently trying to restore a 51 Willis Overland Steel Station Wagon, the one that looks like a 49 woody mated to a jeep. Know where I can get a L head straight 6? Got the T90 tranny, and the mod 18 transfer case, with the pto, just need the original motor. Got tired of hot rods, traded the challanger for a 50 Ford Custom two door, with the flathead 8. Drove that till 1983. Traded it for a horse and trailer. Kinda wish I still had it, it got better gas milage than my wife new Durango.
Bigger too.
Miss the pony cars though.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[croteaudd]

Necessity is the mother of invention, they say. Much of what is present today resulted from necessities, and can be traced to phenomena related to monetary function, and the need for ever more efficiency so the system won’t totally “fall apart.” As a railfan, in the light of the above thoughts, I cannot help but wonder WHEN the chart lines will cross, and both railroads and trucking will no longer be economically viable, but rather, “beam me up Scotty” technology will be the order of the day. Just imagine a ‘trackless’ Union Pacific working out of a small corporate office of just three rooms advertising: “We will deliver your shipments coast-to-coast within just seconds with our new transporter technology. Just give us all the coordinates.”

Concerning actually WHEN “it all STARTED to fall apart,” I would venture to say that it was, not 1956, but rather, during the first third of the previous century. Some historians and editorialists point to that period. Of course, Santa Fe fans may point to all the famous war bonnet passenger train wrecks of 1956 …

[Anonymous]

>> L head straight 6
There is a company near Atlanta GA, called "Day one" That sells restoration supplies, (hard to find window gaskets, etc) They don't sell engines, but they know someone who can set you up, they know everybody in the restoration trade.

>>fartmaster mufflers
Yeah, that's what they sound like to me too. Go***hey are annoying, why would anyone even want an exhaust that didn't sound "throaty"?..=)

When I was growing up there was this guy everyone just called "Hillbilly" that had a '69 chevelle he had put a custom tweaked L-88 into it.

Fastest street burner any of us ever saw,..amazing car..had welded steel chain for motor mounts...one day he was stopped behind two cars at a red light,..we waved at him,..he gooses it and drops the clutch, pulls the front wheels a good 8" off the ground, and sits it back down before getting too close to the car in front of him,...biggest smile you ever saw.

Nice guy, but a bit of a horsepower snob,..he'd actually go looking for guys he'd hear about, that thought they had a faster car,...almost like they was shaming his family or something....=)

[Anonymous]

N.ational O.rganization of W.omen.....;-)

[Anonymous]

Excellant points.

And you touch on a point I've always found curious.

Why did the starship Enterprise need "Phaser banks" and "Proton torpedo's" when they could have just beamed all their enemies to France?

That'll teach 'em!!!...etc ;-)

[edblysard]

Dated a girl whos dad has one of those chevy II with the small V8, dont remember the displacement,(more interested in the daughter than the car) straight from the factory it could get the front end off the ground. Movies now days, like the fast and the furious give kids the wrong impression. We never drove like that, we went out in the country and dragged on a 1/4 mile and 1 mile strip of old county road. And we were more concerned with how thay ran, and what was under the hood than with their looks or what kinda wheels we had. Geez, I am starting to sound like my dad, "I remember when" and "you kids nowadays ". I guess the next step is to go bald, no, maby that horseshoe ring of hair, get fat, wear sans o band pants, and go out and buy a Viper.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[cabforward]

o.k., life sucks, then you die.. everybody who agrees, raise your hand!!

pres. jimmy carter said 'life isn't fair'..

everybody who isn't wealthy enough to fight the system with a lawyer is getting shafted by the gov. or someone.. what else is new?

lots of us believe the world is not nearly as good as it used to be..

2 cavemen examine a club; one says, 'they dont build 'em like they used to'..

2 more cavemen sit next to a fire; one says, 'i'm really not into these crazy new ideas'..

sure, a lot of what's happening today looks bad, feels bad, is bad.. so what?
was there a time when things seemed great at the time they happened? the present always looks better when viewed in the past.. wwii was a horrible experience, but many now think it was good because of how we fought the war then, versus how we oppose iraq now..

viet nam-- protesters blamed the military for the war and mocked soldiers returning home.. now, the govt. is blamed because of new information about how it was managed from the white house and the defense dept.. so what?

the point is perspective.. wait 5 years, this will seem
like the good old days.. the '50s and '60s seem that way to me..

talk to someone who lived in the depression and see how your situation compares to theirs..

i will agree with you-- everything you say is true.. what now? do we crawl back into bed and promise not to come out until it's all better? what's your plan? start a new political party?
the r.r. ticket? slogan: going nowhere fast..

crying in our beer isn't changing anything.. once we understand a situation, it's time to plan on changing it, not grouse about why it isn't better and who's to blame..

you're on the mainline, the signal aspect is 'proceed'--
what are you waiting for?

[sooblue]

*lol*
have you heard of Linux? Freeware!

I know what your saying and I agree with it.
I can remember buying a new car for 2500.00
in 1973. Than came the wage and price freeze.
before that my dad was paying 35.00/month house payments. After the Freeze came off EVERYTHING jumped. Gas, cars, twinkies, wages did too.
people were afraid of more freezes.
Sooblue

[Anonymous]

I know what you mean,,,

caught myself the same way, music is always a generational divisor.....

Back when I was really hot n heavy for Bands like Led Zepp, or Deep Purple, my mom would come running into my room yelling "that's not music, turn that cr@p down", now I hear someone playing Punk rock or rap, and I'm like "that's not music, turn that cr@p down......(whoops, did I just say that?)"

[Anonymous]

I'm just enjoying another part of growing old,., being a "grumpy old man"....;-)

I SHALL NOT BE DENIED!!

back to the original intent of this thread,...........1956 seems to be a rather indicative "point of no return" for the railroads,...sure things started to taper a bit sooner,.but as for when the bottom dropped out,...'56 starts the interstates, '58 was a sizeable recession, through the early '60's major railroads were in severe hurt, and by the late 60's even the merger to end all mergers couldn't save even the mighty pennsey......

I think '56 was when the hill got ''steep"

[edblysard]

Cranked up "Whole lotta Love" real loud, feel a lot better now....
Now all I gotta find is a big jug of Boones Farms, a black light, and my old collection of posters...
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

Yeah, but how much did the railroads contribute to the grade? I know goverment set rates killed off a lot of the smaller roads, but some of the articles I have read seem to indicate the bigger railroads knew they were in for tough times, yet very few took steps to prepare, in fact, it seems that quite a few spent themselves into bankrupt status on purpose. Were they that ill managed, of did they just not belive they could fail?. Pennsey employeed some of the best accountants and managers in the business world, yet waited till the last minute to try and do something about the comming recession. The last ditch effort to merge with NYC was doomed from the start.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Indeed, about 1956, as you say, the Interstate Hwy System and immediately afterwards did in the "local" and accomodation trains that we rememeber so well. The REAL "coup de grace" tho was in 1967 when the last Railway Post Office car came off. As someone has posted the mail and Railway Express Agency business kept these trains on the rails as long as they were. All should read the sad story in David Lyon's excellent work "To Hell in a Day Coach", now out of print. But copies could be obtained throught Amazon or O.P. dealers.

[Anonymous]

Ed, give me Perry Como, Andy Williams, Patty Page, and/or Lawrence Welk any day.

[Anonymous]

It's impossible to go back to where we were in that day and age, attitudes have changed, and people aren't always going to be satified with what was then. The best we can hope to do, is affect changes within our area and hope it spreads. Of course, the professor could build a radio out of a coconut, but couldn't build a boat, so that speaks volumes about humanity's sensibilities. Oh, well
-a young 'un (1984)

[Anonymous]

This is no kidding,..even as a child I used to watch that show thinking "what fools, they are living in paradise, and want to escape it"