Amtrak get your head out of the sand & Help

[robscaboose]

[red][8][8] I heard on the news this morning that they are going to bus 15,000 people to Houston TX. Why can't Amtrak help with the evacation. Sure buses are more flexable, & Amtrak has limited resouces, but it would be a tremendous pr move for Amtrak & the other class 1's if they were seen helping make this situtation better

[chad thomas]

Amtrak barely gets by with what equiptment they do have for everyday operations. Where are they going to get the equiptment for a rescue of this magnitude? And who would pay for it?

[robscaboose]

I am a supporter of passenger rail. While this is a terrible human tragedy this could be a catylist for developing a more rational rail trainsportation system that had the flexibility to help in times of a national disaster. Maybe if they tried, Congress & the President would be more supportive of Rail Transportation. IF they spent a big chunk of $$$ helping these people Congress would come up with extra $$.

But you have to try first. I betting that FEMA & all those other relief agencies don't even have Amtrak in their plans to help out in an emergency & that is sad.

[dharmon]

Quite frankly, the value of having the RRs bring in bulk material such as earth, sand and construction equipment to help stem the water, would be more important than trying to muster up the passenger cars to haul folks out when busses can take them door to door. Amtrak staying out of the way would probably help more.

Dan

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

As mentioned in another thread, an evacuation of this nature takes a certain amount of advance planning and scheduled services would have to be cancelled or shorted of equipment to provide cars and power for such an operation. Spare cars, even considering various suburban operations, just aren't there. Also, how would you get a train into New Orleans after the flood gates were closed?

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Amtrak barely gets by with what equiptment they do have for everyday operations. Where are they going to get the equiptment for a rescue of this magnitude? And who would pay for it?

Who's going to pay for the 15,000 buses? Considering that Bush is going to have to dip into the reserves, it makes no sense to operate that many fuel guzzlers when it would be more efficient to conserve it and lash up a bunch Amtrak and non-Amtrak rollingstock. I don't see money being a problem as that is alot easier to obtain then oil.

[oltmannd]

I'll bet FEMA pays for the busses. There a likely a bunch of busses sitting around NO not doing anything right now. I doubt commuter busses and charter bus companies are very busy!

As far as fuel goes - the 'hound and Amtrak manage very similar seat-miles to the gallon, so it's not wasteful using buses.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Amtrak barely gets by with what equiptment they do have for everyday operations. Where are they going to get the equiptment for a rescue of this magnitude? And who would pay for it?

Who's going to pay for the 15,000 buses? Considering that Bush is going to have to dip into the reserves, it makes no sense to operate that many fuel guzzlers when it would be more efficient to conserve it and lash up a bunch Amtrak and non-Amtrak rollingstock. I don't see money being a problem as that is alot easier to obtain then oil.

Does it matter who pays? Fuel economy is not of the highest concern at the moment. Take care of what needs to be done and settle up later. Amtrak can't get to the people right now anyway. The rail that is intact should be kept clear to move bulk items in.

[Tharmeni]

You'll notice Bu***onight talked about infrastructure reparis and mentioned airports and roads......and nothing else.

[Wdlgln005]

In the flood zones, Amtrak would be stranded like anything else. Water + traction motors don't mix. It's time to see how the freight RR's are meeting the challenges. In the meantime, there's a giant hole in the Amtrak system. No trains south of Memphis. No terrains east of San Antonio. No trains west of Atlanta. There must be a route that could link SA & Atlanta with Memphis??

This shows how poor the rail system has become. Yet, there may be money in time to rebuild the RR's in the flood area. Or else CSX may file bankruptcy?? Keep posted to the Trains forum!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Amtrak barely gets by with what equiptment they do have for everyday operations. Where are they going to get the equiptment for a rescue of this magnitude? And who would pay for it?

Rob

Don't blame Amtrak. Blame 30 some years of underfunding by the presidents and congress of this country.

[UPTRAIN]

Maybe you all are forgetting that 85% of the town is flooded, not to mention the routes leading into there are either, not there, or in very bad shape, up through Mississippi, Alabama, and of course Louisiana. Since a freight train hasn't moved a wheel in that area in almost a week, I doubt Amtrak could help too much.

[UPTRAIN]

Another thing, somebody brought up lashing Amtrak and non-Amtrak equipment, if you could get them bussed/floated to a location where there are operating tracks, I don't think they would care too much to ride in a trainof gondolas...they just want the hell out of there. I saw videos of snakes and sharks and everthing in there, livestock carcasses floating down Bourbon Street, I wouldn't mind riding in a gondola in 90 degree weather to get away from that and the health risks that this has brought in.

[Anonymous]

I Doubt it aswell

[dldance]

Following is UP's list of embargoed locations related to Katrina. Hard to see how Amtrak could be much help without these stations.

Ama Jct. LA FSAC 53753
Ama LA FSAC 53754
Armant LA FSAC 53732
Avondale LA FSAC 52526
Baldwin LA FSAC 58344
Bayou Sale LA FSAC 58334
Boeuf LA FSAC 58326
Boutte LA FSAC 58288
Columbia LA FSAC 53738
Cyanamid LA FSAC 53749
Dufresne LA FSAC 53750
Edgard LA FSAC 53740
Gouldsboro LA FSAC 52536
Gretna LA FSAC 52534
Hahnville LA FSAC 53748
Harvey LA FSAC 52532
Jeanerette LA FSAC 58362
Johnson LA FSAC 53736
Killona LA FSAC 53742
Live Oak Jct. LA FSAC 53755
Luling, LA FSAC 53752
Marreo LA FSAC 52530
Morgan City LA FSAC 58330
New Iberia LA FSAC 58370
New Orleans LA FSAC 52538
Olivier LA FSAC 58366
Raceland LA FSAC 58298
Ramos LA FSAC 58328
Schriever LA FSAC 58312
Sellers LA FSAC 53751
Shrewsbury LA FSAC 53756
St. James LA FSAC 53728
Taft LA FSAC 53746
Vacherie LA FSAC 53734
Vallier LA FSAC 58292
Waterford Spur LA FSAC 53744
West Bridge Jct LA FSAC 52527
Westwego, LA FSAC 52528
Wills LA FSAC 53757
Zacarter LA FSAC 58324

dd

[espeefoamer]

Amtrak could have rounded up coaches and gotten people out begining a few days BEFORE Katrina hit.Amtrak could have suspended service a few days earlier,and used the equipment to get the people out of N.O.

[UPTRAIN]

Because UP isn't the only railroad in NO, it uses CSX, which is also in ruins...I will post a topic in a sec, stick aroud.

[jchnhtfd]

This has been addressed, to a certain extent, on another thread, but...

first, straight out capacity. Amtrak doesn't have it. As Jim noted above, this isn't Amtrak's fault, but that's a whole 'nother story, and we've been there before. Not only does Amtrak not have it, but even if the rail lines were usable, they don't really have it either: there really are only four ways into the New Orleans region, and there are only just so many trains per day you can run on each one of them. As Dan so aptly noted, the lines will be of more help (when they can run again) bringing in material than bringing out people.

Second, dd posted the embargoed locations on UP. CSX can get as far west as Pensacola, which isn't any help to speak of; CN can run as far south as Meridian (may have gotten further this morning -- but that's still a good piece up the pike); NS is also stuck at about Meridian, and BNSF can't get anywhere near the city, either. Unlike a bus, which can run on some pretty horrible roads if it has to, a train of any size at all has to have a good roadbed and track and signalling to be usable.

[jsoderq]

Another reason why it is/was impossible for Amtrak to do anything is crews. They don't have then , they are not trained in the region(required by law) and as others have pointed out, there is no equipment. The suggestion to pull commuter cars is nonsense, what about all the people that have to get to work? The world doesn't stop just because part of the country had a hurricane.
Any school bus driver can get on the road and drive to Houston or wherever they want to go and I would bet plenty of them are.

[coborn35]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Amtrak barely gets by with what equiptment they do have for everyday operations. Where are they going to get the equiptment for a rescue of this magnitude? And who would pay for it?

Noone would have to!![:O]

What would they say, If you cant pay, you will be killed in the flood water!!!!??????
Amtrak could have done it for free if they wanted to!

[BentnoseWillie]

He wasn't talking about fares. The railcars have to come from somewhere, and railcars aren't free, nor are the work to put them in service or the transportation to and from teh scene. The first is probably the biggest obstacle, since there aren't many surplus passenger cars that are FRA compliant.

Even if there were cars, the problem remains that there isn't rail access to anywhere near New Orleans yet. By the time there is, the people will have been moved by bus already.

QUOTE: Noone would have to!!

What would they say, If you cant pay, you will be killed in the flood water!!!!??????
Amtrak could have done it for free if they wanted to!

[Anonymous]

Here is a relevant article:

"Amtrak planning evacuations for N.O. residents"

"MERIDIAN — An evacuation plan via Amtrak train for New Orleans residents trapped by Hurricane Katrina's devastation and floodwaters is being worked out by Amtrak president David Gunn, Meridian Mayor John Robert Smith said Wednesday..."

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050901/NEWS0110/509010402/1260

[AntonioFP45]

If this were the early 1980s, perhaps a "Pre-Evacuation could have been facilitated as Amtrak's fleet was actually larger. There were plenty of heritage fleet cars that were rebuilt.

However, as pointed out before, getting train crews, arranging dispatching schedules, etc., would likely prove very difficult. Add the fact that so called "redundant" rail routes have been scaled back or eliminated

Passenger rail still has great potential in this country but with the current mindset in Washington and our rail systems infrastructure, it's doubtful it will see its true potential realized.

[ndbprr]

Another brilliant first post. Explain to me how traction motors work under water on tracks that are washed out and how people borad under 8' of water? Why don't you volunteer to ride the first train so when it derails the others know where the danger is.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

If this were the early 1980s, perhaps a "Pre-Evacuation could have been facilitated as Amtrak's fleet was actually larger. There were plenty of heritage fleet cars that were rebuilt.

However, as pointed out before, getting train crews, arranging dispatching schedules, etc., would likely prove very difficult. Add the fact that so called "redundant" rail routes have been scaled back or eliminated

Passenger rail still has great potential in this country but with the current mindset in Washington and our rail systems infrastructure, it's doubtful it will see its true potential realized.

As Antonio is pointing out, it is not Amtrak who had its head in the sand, it the the crowd in DC that does.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ndbprr

Another brilliant first post. Explain to me how traction motors work under water on tracks that are washed out and how people borad under 8' of water? Why don't you volunteer to ride the first train so when it derails the others know where the danger is.

Keep in mind that I never commented on the article; I only gave you the link to an article. Don't mock the messenger.

I personally doubt that Amtrak will be able to do much now in New Orleans either (for the reasons you state). Amtrak's place should have been to evacuate people en masse before the storm hit while the roadways were gridlocked.

Now, the freight railroads are scrambling to restore service, not because they are concerned about being humanitarian, but because of the huge dollars invested in New Orleans and the Gulf coast. I would suggest that the federal money not go to Amtrak to try to get people out of NO, as that is really just a reactionary short-term fix. Instead use the money so the freight railroads can restore their lines so that supplies and traffic can get back into the city.

[adrianspeeder]

No way around it, gonna be a slow and expensive job every day.

Adrianspeeder

[UPTRAIN]

Read the topic I posted called: Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and see what he had to say about trains tonight.

[daveklepper]

Note that Amtrak ran a 20 car 7 locomotive move north out of New Orleans and then used the equipment as housing. Amtrak did help already. It was reported as a "light" movement. This was probably because they did not want hords of people showing up and demanding the right to buy a ticket. I assume they accommodated their own personel first and then any other railroaders that showed up and wanted to get aboard as long as decent space was available. Pretty sure it left with a full load. But their responsibility before the city closed down was first for their own employees.

With a national railroad passenger system that was truly part of a national suface passenger transportation system, Amtrak would have had the resources to do a really good job before Katrina reached New Orleans.