QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe QUOTE: Originally posted by Paul Milenkovic Terrible people these scabmechanics. Suppose these scabmechanics keep Northwest out of Chapter 11 and help other union people keep their pensions, or suppose they keep Northwest out of liquidation so, I don't know, Southwest doesn't take over their routes, where Southwest has an entirely different "labor agreements" (don't know if they are even union). I suppose that makes the whole of Southwests's labor force scabpilots, scabattendents, and scabmechanics as well. Regarding your quote: 1. Just what exactly does Southwest Airlines have to do with a strike at Northwest Airlines?? 2. Southwest's hardworking line employees are union, many TWU, also ALPA, and would most certainly take tremendous offense at your characterization of them as "scabs". Particularly since they have absolutely nothing to do with either Northwest's labor troubles or Northwest's current approach to those troubles. In fact, with the exception of DTW, Southwest does not fly into either of NWA's other 2 fortress hubs, MSP or MEM. 3. Perhaps you should consider getting your facts straight before spouting off your peurile, unsubstantiated and inflammatory invective. I do NOT work for SWA. Nor does any member of my family.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Paul Milenkovic Terrible people these scabmechanics. Suppose these scabmechanics keep Northwest out of Chapter 11 and help other union people keep their pensions, or suppose they keep Northwest out of liquidation so, I don't know, Southwest doesn't take over their routes, where Southwest has an entirely different "labor agreements" (don't know if they are even union). I suppose that makes the whole of Southwests's labor force scabpilots, scabattendents, and scabmechanics as well.
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QUOTE: 3. Perhaps you should consider getting your facts straight before spouting off your peurile, unsubstantiated and inflammatory invective.
QUOTE: Northwest has been hiring and training the replacement mechanics ( I hate the word scab ) for months, in anticipation of this strike. This fact really angers the union, and is at the heart of their accusation that the company was never bargaining in good faith, prior to the strike deadline.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken Good. Blatant nonsense????? Keep taking pictures of the pretty trains.....foamer.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098 I meant your blatant liberal nonsense. I am quite interested in the subject. I subscribe to trains for the business information as much as about being a rail fan and taking pictures. What is a foamer?
QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098 What is a foamer?
QUOTE: Originally posted by SP9033 Originally posted by Lotus098 I meant your blatant liberal nonsense. I am quite interested in the subject. I subscribe to trains for the business information as much as about being a rail fan and taking pictures. What is a foamer? James, We all come here from different places and situations in life. And its nice to see a bright, articulate young man as you posting here on this board. But, it is obvious that you have limited your intake of information to one point of view. I would suggest that you broaden your base of knowledge by taking in a boarder buffet of information from multiple sources. Read about both sides of the issues. Jim I do try, look at all the facts you can get, and make a logical choice. If the job conditions were terrible, nobody would work there, and if they were illegal, they would get sued. Surely ironken is guilty of the same, or worse. Since much of his statements have been disproved, or are pure opinion. I just have one question that the article didn't mention. [?][?] Why are these guys striking?[?][?] I wonder if the Union isn't trying to force the airline to raise their wages. One other thing that bothers me: What is wrong with these scabs, they are honest men doing an honest job. Part of capitalism, if the job needs done somebody is willing to do it, nothing wrong with that is there? A Great railroad story I read about a strike is out of Short lines A Collection of Classic American Railroad Stories The story The Nerve of Foley, very good story, shows how an engineer who was laid off from another railroad due to a strike comes to the one in the book (I forget the name), he is the hero of the story and in the end rescues one of the strikers sons, he isn't evil and not the scum of the earth. If you read the article, many of the scabs, are former mechanics that were laid off, these people are getting a raise and returning to the job. This would lead me to believe that the job isn't so bad as to strike over. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Reply Edit Big_Boy_4005 Member sinceDecember 2003 From: St Paul, MN 6,218 posts Posted by Big_Boy_4005 on Saturday, August 27, 2005 12:33 AM James, please take your blinders off, and read my posts. I have pretty well explained the situation. This strike is what leads my local news 4 times a day. It has been on the front page of the paper for weeks. How would you like to work for a company for 20 years, and wake up one morning and have the company tell you they don't want you anymore? This isn't just about wages, the union probably expects to take a pay cut, but 26%, which is what Northwest offered, isn't realistic. Would you take a 26% pay cut? I think not!!! In addition to pay cuts they want to cut jobs too. So, now if you don't have 16 years in you are pretty much toast, and get a 100% pay cut. That's life in the real world kid. I'm back! Follow the progress: http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/displayForumTopic/content/12129987972340381/page/1 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 27, 2005 2:04 AM liberal nonsence....pure opinion......boy James. Everything I say has been disproved? Your profile said that you are a teacher. Typical. You state that you have read about such and such strike. Well pal, I have been on strike and have my job replaced by a scab. You read about it and I have lived it. Just remember, while you are sitting there in your jammies playing your train simulator while your girlfriend sits there looking at you in disgust, I am out there living and doing it and leaving my family to do it. I like it and I like my union and I deserve every penny that I make. Until you have lived it, you have no opinion in my book. Flame away..........When the sun sets, I'm still a rail and you are still a foamer. Heck, instead of going after anything in my life and experiencing it......I shoulda took the safe course and just read about it and become an expert on the subject. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 27, 2005 2:27 AM Fellows, Take it easy on James, he is just a 14 year old kid, still living at home with mom and dad. He still has many lessons of life he hasn't had to live yet. Jim - Lawton, NV MP 236 Reply Edit Big_Boy_4005 Member sinceDecember 2003 From: St Paul, MN 6,218 posts Posted by Big_Boy_4005 on Saturday, August 27, 2005 9:42 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by SP9033 Fellows, Take it easy on James, he is just a 14 year old kid, still living at home with mom and dad. He still has many lessons of life he hasn't had to live yet. Jim - Lawton, NV MP 236 Jim, that is my understanding of his identity too, but there is no proof. That is the beauty of the internet, you can be as anonymous as you want, and nobody can prove or disprove who you are. Over on the MR forum someone accused him of being a troll, and it turned into a 5 page war. My suggestion is to go to his profile, and read all of his posts. Then decide for yourself if you still believe that he is 14. I'm begining to think Dennis B was right, and he just comes here to see who he can make angry. This is the third time I've crossed paths with him, and I'm getting sick of it. I don't hide behind my screen name. My photo is in my profile and my email is listed. The same is true of most of the regulars around here. As far as I'm concerned, from this moment on, I'm done reading his posts. When I see them I will ignore them. My advice is that everyone here do the same, and not let him ruin your day. I'm back! Follow the progress: http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/displayForumTopic/content/12129987972340381/page/1 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 27, 2005 11:46 AM Please Read at least one last post! Don't be so quick to judge, ironken, this foamer plans on going to Modoc Rail Academy and joining the ranks of the railroaders, why else would I play train simulator. I just got a big subwoofer, but I can't seem to convince dad that we need the lifesize controls. My profile says schooling, because my job is to be a student. No proof of my age, but I post mostly about model railroading, and other things, so I am not a troll or Bergie would have gotten a bunch of complaints and nuked me. I have a nasty habit of using Teddy Roosevelt diplomacy; I am very blunt and speak my mind, this can be troubling to some. The reason my email is not listed is because of my parents. I have no intention of ruining anyone’s day. Big_Boy_4005, I have been reading your posts, I think I understand the situation, better upon rereading your posts, I agree with you. I sincerely hope that we can talk trains again. I don't want to make any enemies, and I apologize, there was no need to shout or phrase things the way I said. Here are some of my posts, to save you some time:http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43989 http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43992 http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43744 http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43953 http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43949 http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43727 http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43731 http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43306 http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43852 http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43665 http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43815http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43915 You can make your judgements, but I hope you won't do like dennis and harrass me everywhere I post. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 27, 2005 12:18 PM well, James. You fired at me and you got fired upon. I will leave this one lay. If you ever become a rail, your opinion of the Union will change. If it werent for the Union we would make 8.00 an hour to pedal these land turds across the rail. Reply Edit broncoman Member sinceFebruary 2003 From: Gateway to Donner Summit 434 posts Posted by broncoman on Saturday, August 27, 2005 12:30 PM So guys from the Minneapolis/St. Paul area (namely Big_Boy 4005), do you guys happen to know if they are hiring other mechanic types in the area there and if so do they pay close to the same wages? When there was the last strike and bankruptcy by United, a lot of mechanics went on to other things. I think they made around $38.00 an hour for United at San Francisco. Normal mechanics (truck, car, heavy equipment) around here make around $33.00/hr. Many A & P mechanics had no trouble switching jobs. The company I work for hired around 10 of them I think and thats out of 400 mechanics statewide. With most of the mechanic workforce getting close to retirement there are a lot of job openings, I was curious if this was true in your area also. Dave I.B.E.W. 1245 Reply Big_Boy_4005 Member sinceDecember 2003 From: St Paul, MN 6,218 posts Posted by Big_Boy_4005 on Saturday, August 27, 2005 2:46 PM Dave, I really don't know if they are doing any more hiring. I think that phase was done a couple months ago in preparation for the strike. Some of the local news crews broke the story and followed some of the applicants. These training sessions were not held in the Twin Cities, but rather in undisclosed locations around the country. One may have been in Phoenix. There must have been a blind ad in some of the major newspapers around the country. The union probably caught wind of it, and turned the reporters on them. I'm not sure what the replacement's qualifications are. I think it is reasonable to assume many have an aircraft background, while others came from different diciplines with mechanical skills. I think what the company is really looking to do, is only employ a small staff to handle minor repairs and quick fixes. The big stuff, scheduled overhauls and such, would be outsourced. Until this strike business is resolved one way or the other, the company may not be able to sign contracts. That would put an interesting twist on things, giving the union a little more leverage. Their goal is to hang tough in hopes of crippling the airline and bring them back to the bargaining table. The reality is, as long as the planes keep flying, the work will have to be done. The questions are: who, where and for how much? If the company wins, these jobs won't just evaporate, but they will move away. The replacements may become permanent. The moving away part is something the state of Minnesota is NOT very happy about, because a number of years ago, when Northwest was in trouble, the state helped them out, under the condition that the jobs stay here. Now this. This is more like a game of musical chairs. I'm sure most of these guys will land on their feet, as you noted mechanics are in demand. Of course, nobody likes to have the rug pulled out from under them, and be forced to find a new job and possibly relocate, especially after as many years as some of these guys have with the company. I wish I could tell you more about the local job market, but I'm not involved in it. I'm just a curious innocent bystander, who's following the story. Thank you James. In the long run, you'll get more respect around here that way. I'm back! Follow the progress: http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/displayForumTopic/content/12129987972340381/page/1 Reply broncoman Member sinceFebruary 2003 From: Gateway to Donner Summit 434 posts Posted by broncoman on Saturday, August 27, 2005 7:34 PM I agree that its definately not cool to have the rug pulled out. I am 34 and have just completed my 10th year with the union. I had a management job before I hired on so I was used to the ax falling before I came to the union. Its amazing that guys that I work with hired on when they were 18 and are getting ready to retire after putting in 40 somthing years with the same company. There is a completely different culture on that side of the house. I still keep my resume ready and take any classes I can to give me an edge in my field, but I feel for the guys who haven't known different and hope they land on there feet. Dave Reply Junctionfan Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: St.Catharines, Ontario 3,770 posts Posted by Junctionfan on Saturday, August 27, 2005 9:11 PM Unfortunately the workplace got so darn competitive, having all kinds of degrees and certificates doesn't always gets you where you should be. I have heard of folk with trade certificates from the City Guilds of London working at the pizza store because "they don't have experience". Answer me this employers; how the heck is someone supposed to get experience if you don't hire them? Andrew Reply broncoman Member sinceFebruary 2003 From: Gateway to Donner Summit 434 posts Posted by broncoman on Saturday, August 27, 2005 10:15 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan Unfortunately the workplace got so darn competitive, having all kinds of degrees and certificates doesn't always gets you where you should be. I have heard of folk with trade certificates from the City Guilds of London working at the pizza store because "they don't have experience". Answer me this employers; how the heck is someone supposed to get experience if you don't hire them? The only saving grace is that most of the people from the tail end of my generation and up have been told going to college and getting an education is the only way to get a good paying job. I don't know how it is in the mid west, but out here there are tons of trade school or journeyman type jobs that go unfilled, UPs job list for this area is pretty big. Kids were told computers, while the nation is running out of welders, plumbers, mechanics etc. My company pays apprentices a decent wage while they go through their apprenticeship, and we have problems filling jobs. Kids don't want to work, or haven't worked and have a tough time being told to do meanial stuff as part of their job, i.e. you need to spend a couple of hours prepping that pipeline to learn about the prep work before you can learn how to weld it. Sorry I'm getting off subject.....[oops] Reply Tharmeni Member sinceJuly 2003 From: Southwestern Florida 501 posts Posted by Tharmeni on Sunday, August 28, 2005 7:34 AM The talk of "scabs" and the management of Northwest is disturbing. As a businessman, if someone is undercutting me on the cost of my service and taking me to the cleaners, I have two choices: Get my costs down to stay competitive or give up. It's a matter of numbers, not conspriacies. I went to hear a national union leader speak a few weeks ago and he said two things that I noted: 1) Unions still are, to some extent, seen as a mechanism to do the smallest amount of work for the highest price and 2) if unions do not change, then you'll have to visit the Smithsonian to see a union member. He said it, fellas, not me. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 28, 2005 8:58 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Tharmeni The talk of "scabs" and the management of Northwest is disturbing. As a businessman, if someone is undercutting me on the cost of my service and taking me to the cleaners, I have two choices: Get my costs down to stay competitive or give up. It's a matter of numbers, not conspriacies. I went to hear a national union leader speak a few weeks ago and he said two things that I noted: 1) Unions still are, to some extent, seen as a mechanism to do the smallest amount of work for the highest price and 2) if unions do not change, then you'll have to visit the Smithsonian to see a union member. He said it, fellas, not me. Who was the union leader speaking, and what craft did he represent? Of course, this is subjective and regional in nature, but having been a truck driver for 35 years, owner operator, non-union employee and union employee I've seen lots. One of the things I've noticed over the years is that whether a shop is union or not, it seems they both have the same percentage of slackers. At the union shop I work at now, there is a certain amount of peer pressure to do a good job - much more than at any non-union shop I've ever worked at over the years. I have seen and lived through the turmoil of the past 25 years within the trucking industry since deregulation. At most of the companies I witness go under, it had very little to do with labor and much more to do with management that refused to change. They just didn't get it, until it was too late. They thought we were the problem, we were not the problem, we were the solution. If Northwestern is to survive, they have to change the bureaucratic corporate culture, union busting will not save them. They need lots of change at the top. They have to get rid of the us verses them attitude, and make it a team effort by empowering labor to serve the customer and get the job done. I'm so grateful that I'm a teamster. June I was diagnosed with cancer and have not worked since then, my treatment has been covered by good insurance covered through the union, paid by my employer. No Cobra here, 12 months of premiums as well as a small weekly short term disability payment. My total out of pocket expense for co-pays was 2,000 bucks, nothing more to pay this year. When I get back to work, I'll be a grateful teamster doing a first class job. Most of us in labor, very much understand that we make money for the company. If the company doesn't make money, we have no paycheck! Jim I.B.T. Local 533 Reply Edit Junctionfan Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: St.Catharines, Ontario 3,770 posts Posted by Junctionfan on Sunday, August 28, 2005 9:26 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Tharmeni The talk of "scabs" and the management of Northwest is disturbing. As a businessman, if someone is undercutting me on the cost of my service and taking me to the cleaners, I have two choices: Get my costs down to stay competitive or give up. It's a matter of numbers, not conspriacies. I went to hear a national union leader speak a few weeks ago and he said two things that I noted: 1) Unions still are, to some extent, seen as a mechanism to do the smallest amount of work for the highest price and 2) if unions do not change, then you'll have to visit the Smithsonian to see a union member. He said it, fellas, not me. Well then the man is jack a$$ and shouldn't represent. That is not what the unions are supposed to be doing. They are supposed to be there to represent the workers and make sure that the workers are protected from unfair management policies and ensure that federal and provincial/state laws are being followed among other things. Guys like him are the reason why people distrust and have a negative attitude toward unions. Andrew Reply bobwilcox Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Crozet, VA 1,049 posts Posted by bobwilcox on Sunday, August 28, 2005 2:18 PM It is interesting to note that the legacy airlines look to Southwest Airlines as their benchmark. Southwest has always had union representation for most of their employees. I think the big hurdle is not the union per se but the problem selling anyone on big give backs from the old days when regulated airlines could pass along the cost to their customers. The give backs may make sense on a spreadsheet but they come right out of someones pocket that needs to pay a stack of bills every month. How many of your could stand a 30% pay cut starting with your next pay check? Bob Reply broncoman Member sinceFebruary 2003 From: Gateway to Donner Summit 434 posts Posted by broncoman on Sunday, August 28, 2005 2:35 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by SP9033 Originally posted by Tharmeni Of course, this is subjective and regional in nature, but having been a truck driver for 35 years, owner operator, non-union employee and union employee I've seen lots. One of the things I've noticed over the years is that whether a shop is union or not, it seems they both have the same percentage of slackers. At the union shop I work at now, there is a certain amount of peer pressure to do a good job - much more than at any non-union shop I've ever worked at over the years. I have seen and lived through the turmoil of the past 25 years within the trucking industry since deregulation. At most of the companies I witness go under, it had very little to do with labor and much more to do with management that refused to change. They just didn't get it, until it was too late. They thought we were the problem, we were not the problem, we were the solution. If Northwestern is to survive, they have to change the bureaucratic corporate culture, union busting will not save them. They need lots of change at the top. They have to get rid of the us verses them attitude, and make it a team effort by empowering labor to serve the customer and get the job done. I'm so grateful that I'm a teamster. June I was diagnosed with cancer and have not worked since then, my treatment has been covered by good insurance covered through the union, paid by my employer. No Cobra here, 12 months of premiums as well as a small weekly short term disability payment. My total out of pocket expense for co-pays was 2,000 bucks, nothing more to pay this year. Jim I.B.T. Local 533 I completely agree. Management can make or break a company... especially upper management. IMHO Herb Kelleher was one of the greatest CEOs around. I usually choose to fly southwest at any opportunity, for how energetic and happy their stewards and stewardesses are, as opposed to flying United or American. I know friends who have left other jobs to go to Southwest because it was a good company to work for and are very happy for having made that choice. I also agree that it is with benefits not always pay that unions are the biggest benefit, and with that I wish you a speedy recovery Jim! Dave Reply Big_Boy_4005 Member sinceDecember 2003 From: St Paul, MN 6,218 posts Posted by Big_Boy_4005 on Monday, August 29, 2005 6:59 AM Reports are that at least one mechanic in Minneapolis and one in Milwaukee have crossed the picket line and gone back to work. The airline is reporting that 96% of all scheduled flights during the first week of the strike went off, with 71% on time. If true, this is not good news for the union, who are counting on more service disruption. The airline is taking aim at the pilots again, asking for even more consessions. Now a 33% pay cut is being sought, this following a pay cut earlier this year. Wall Street and Main Street have different views of this strike. Wall Street sees management's actions as a positive, and Northwest's stock price has risen since the strike began. By the way, oil has reached a new record high per barrel, which only makes the company's financial situation worse. At some point, the employees will not be able to cover this, and ticket prices will have to go up, or at minimum higher fuel surcharges need to be added to each ticket. So far there has been no mention of pay or job cuts for management. Interesting.[B)][}:)][xx(][:(!][V] I'm back! Follow the progress: http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/displayForumTopic/content/12129987972340381/page/1 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 29, 2005 7:53 AM None of you watched the UAW/Caterpillar strike and outcome? Almost 20% crossed the lines to go back to work, the strike lasted years, many guys lost their homes, cars, boats, motorcycles, wives and some even took their lives because the end wasn't in sight. Cat brought in office workers, and they office workers loved it, they made the UAW wages of 18+ an hour and not the partly 10-15 an hour they were used to. I think the UAW here saw the writing on the wall, compromise or lose all union voice at Cat, save what jobs they could, or watch Cat bring in new hires (or scabs as you wish) or watch all the work get outsourced. The union stance here in Peoria, has had a negagtive impact on our securing new companies that would offer a better then Walmart or strip mall pay. Because the union held out so long we haven't seen a major manufacture reappear in years. The last UAW/Cat talks got to the 11th hour of striking, they had office/management out in the shops training right along side the UAW workers. Cat office was hoping for the strike, and I think Cat could have carried on with out the UAW in the shops, since all of Cat is Office heavy. I know a lot of this since my girlfriend is at Cat, they had her on the list to go factory. While I think that a man should be paid a decent wage, and the company should appriciate the skilled labor they have, when you are looking at times were the best paying job a non-college educated is WalMart, a place like Cat and the offer of working for 2-4 an hour more makes it hard for some not to start being replacement (scab) workers. Put yourself in a younger persons shoes that sees others driving new Pickups, has a decent home while they drive a 10-15 year old car, they live in an apartment and live week to week and tell me you wouldn't place your family first to have it better instead of saying "oh, they are union, and I need to respect the union ethics" yeah right when we see what the upper union management takes home even when there is a strike. I think when the members they represent are on stike and taking home $50.00 a week strike pay, then the uppers at the union should do the same. If I sound a little pro-company so be it, I have lived both sides of the fence, I have also owned my own company, it's not always easy to pay the "great wages" if you want to be profitable, grow and have your own retirement work. Also the union doesn't own the company or the jobs, the owner or "CEO" is the one. [end][soapbox][/end] Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 29, 2005 11:31 AM From the link provided in the original post: They are among the 1,900 replacement workers deployed by Northwest to assume the duties of 4,430 mechanics, cleaners and other members of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association. The union struck the airline on Saturday over the airline's demand for $176 million in pay and benefit cuts. The replacements have spent the last three months training under a $107 million contingency plan that the airline crafted in anticipation of a strike. 1900 workers to replace 4300 workers? Wow, those 1900 must be miracle-workers, to do the job of three men. I wonder why they could not get jobs before becoming scabs? And the airline that is going broke decides to spend $107 million (plus ongoing costs of housing and security) to train scabs, when that money could have been put forth to the strikers as part of an agreement. Perhaps the airline has its own agenda? And how much wage and benefit consessions has management made? Any VP's taking a 26% cut? Getting rid of half the management are they? And gee, THREE whole months to train as an airline mechanic? I have yet to feel like an expert after only three months at any job, much less a job that requires asmuch skill as a airline mechanic. Perhaps the union could try to make the flying public more aware of just who is "fixing" the planes they are about to board. NO WAY would I fly on an airline with this sort of labor dispute going on. Nor would I cross the picket line. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 29, 2005 12:55 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by equinox From the link provided in the original post: They are among the 1,900 replacement workers deployed by Northwest to assume the duties of 4,430 mechanics, cleaners and other members of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association. The union struck the airline on Saturday over the airline's demand for $176 million in pay and benefit cuts. The replacements have spent the last three months training under a $107 million contingency plan that the airline crafted in anticipation of a strike. 1900 workers to replace 4300 workers? Wow, those 1900 must be miracle-workers, to do the job of three men. I wonder why they could not get jobs before becoming scabs? And the airline that is going broke decides to spend $107 million (plus ongoing costs of housing and security) to train scabs, when that money could have been put forth to the strikers as part of an agreement. Perhaps the airline has its own agenda? And how much wage and benefit consessions has management made? Any VP's taking a 26% cut? Getting rid of half the management are they? And gee, THREE whole months to train as an airline mechanic? I have yet to feel like an expert after only three months at any job, much less a job that requires asmuch skill as a airline mechanic. Perhaps the union could try to make the flying public more aware of just who is "fixing" the planes they are about to board. NO WAY would I fly on an airline with this sort of labor dispute going on. Nor would I cross the picket line. Some very good thoughts well worth repeating. If concession are to be made then management should be the FIRST to make concession on their OWN pay. I wonder if the scabs understand that THEY can be held ACCOUNTABLE for anything that goes wrong with what they have "fixed" ? They probally don't have an A & P license so they are having someone else "sign off" their work. I would not put my licenses and job on the line in this case. NO WAY. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by Lotus098 I meant your blatant liberal nonsense. I am quite interested in the subject. I subscribe to trains for the business information as much as about being a rail fan and taking pictures. What is a foamer? James, We all come here from different places and situations in life. And its nice to see a bright, articulate young man as you posting here on this board. But, it is obvious that you have limited your intake of information to one point of view. I would suggest that you broaden your base of knowledge by taking in a boarder buffet of information from multiple sources. Read about both sides of the issues. Jim
QUOTE: Originally posted by SP9033 Fellows, Take it easy on James, he is just a 14 year old kid, still living at home with mom and dad. He still has many lessons of life he hasn't had to live yet. Jim - Lawton, NV MP 236
QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan Unfortunately the workplace got so darn competitive, having all kinds of degrees and certificates doesn't always gets you where you should be. I have heard of folk with trade certificates from the City Guilds of London working at the pizza store because "they don't have experience". Answer me this employers; how the heck is someone supposed to get experience if you don't hire them?
QUOTE: Originally posted by Tharmeni The talk of "scabs" and the management of Northwest is disturbing. As a businessman, if someone is undercutting me on the cost of my service and taking me to the cleaners, I have two choices: Get my costs down to stay competitive or give up. It's a matter of numbers, not conspriacies. I went to hear a national union leader speak a few weeks ago and he said two things that I noted: 1) Unions still are, to some extent, seen as a mechanism to do the smallest amount of work for the highest price and 2) if unions do not change, then you'll have to visit the Smithsonian to see a union member. He said it, fellas, not me.
QUOTE: Originally posted by SP9033 Originally posted by Tharmeni Of course, this is subjective and regional in nature, but having been a truck driver for 35 years, owner operator, non-union employee and union employee I've seen lots. One of the things I've noticed over the years is that whether a shop is union or not, it seems they both have the same percentage of slackers. At the union shop I work at now, there is a certain amount of peer pressure to do a good job - much more than at any non-union shop I've ever worked at over the years. I have seen and lived through the turmoil of the past 25 years within the trucking industry since deregulation. At most of the companies I witness go under, it had very little to do with labor and much more to do with management that refused to change. They just didn't get it, until it was too late. They thought we were the problem, we were not the problem, we were the solution. If Northwestern is to survive, they have to change the bureaucratic corporate culture, union busting will not save them. They need lots of change at the top. They have to get rid of the us verses them attitude, and make it a team effort by empowering labor to serve the customer and get the job done. I'm so grateful that I'm a teamster. June I was diagnosed with cancer and have not worked since then, my treatment has been covered by good insurance covered through the union, paid by my employer. No Cobra here, 12 months of premiums as well as a small weekly short term disability payment. My total out of pocket expense for co-pays was 2,000 bucks, nothing more to pay this year. Jim I.B.T. Local 533 I completely agree. Management can make or break a company... especially upper management. IMHO Herb Kelleher was one of the greatest CEOs around. I usually choose to fly southwest at any opportunity, for how energetic and happy their stewards and stewardesses are, as opposed to flying United or American. I know friends who have left other jobs to go to Southwest because it was a good company to work for and are very happy for having made that choice. I also agree that it is with benefits not always pay that unions are the biggest benefit, and with that I wish you a speedy recovery Jim! Dave Reply Big_Boy_4005 Member sinceDecember 2003 From: St Paul, MN 6,218 posts Posted by Big_Boy_4005 on Monday, August 29, 2005 6:59 AM Reports are that at least one mechanic in Minneapolis and one in Milwaukee have crossed the picket line and gone back to work. The airline is reporting that 96% of all scheduled flights during the first week of the strike went off, with 71% on time. If true, this is not good news for the union, who are counting on more service disruption. The airline is taking aim at the pilots again, asking for even more consessions. Now a 33% pay cut is being sought, this following a pay cut earlier this year. Wall Street and Main Street have different views of this strike. Wall Street sees management's actions as a positive, and Northwest's stock price has risen since the strike began. By the way, oil has reached a new record high per barrel, which only makes the company's financial situation worse. At some point, the employees will not be able to cover this, and ticket prices will have to go up, or at minimum higher fuel surcharges need to be added to each ticket. So far there has been no mention of pay or job cuts for management. Interesting.[B)][}:)][xx(][:(!][V] I'm back! Follow the progress: http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/displayForumTopic/content/12129987972340381/page/1 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 29, 2005 7:53 AM None of you watched the UAW/Caterpillar strike and outcome? Almost 20% crossed the lines to go back to work, the strike lasted years, many guys lost their homes, cars, boats, motorcycles, wives and some even took their lives because the end wasn't in sight. Cat brought in office workers, and they office workers loved it, they made the UAW wages of 18+ an hour and not the partly 10-15 an hour they were used to. I think the UAW here saw the writing on the wall, compromise or lose all union voice at Cat, save what jobs they could, or watch Cat bring in new hires (or scabs as you wish) or watch all the work get outsourced. The union stance here in Peoria, has had a negagtive impact on our securing new companies that would offer a better then Walmart or strip mall pay. Because the union held out so long we haven't seen a major manufacture reappear in years. The last UAW/Cat talks got to the 11th hour of striking, they had office/management out in the shops training right along side the UAW workers. Cat office was hoping for the strike, and I think Cat could have carried on with out the UAW in the shops, since all of Cat is Office heavy. I know a lot of this since my girlfriend is at Cat, they had her on the list to go factory. While I think that a man should be paid a decent wage, and the company should appriciate the skilled labor they have, when you are looking at times were the best paying job a non-college educated is WalMart, a place like Cat and the offer of working for 2-4 an hour more makes it hard for some not to start being replacement (scab) workers. Put yourself in a younger persons shoes that sees others driving new Pickups, has a decent home while they drive a 10-15 year old car, they live in an apartment and live week to week and tell me you wouldn't place your family first to have it better instead of saying "oh, they are union, and I need to respect the union ethics" yeah right when we see what the upper union management takes home even when there is a strike. I think when the members they represent are on stike and taking home $50.00 a week strike pay, then the uppers at the union should do the same. If I sound a little pro-company so be it, I have lived both sides of the fence, I have also owned my own company, it's not always easy to pay the "great wages" if you want to be profitable, grow and have your own retirement work. Also the union doesn't own the company or the jobs, the owner or "CEO" is the one. [end][soapbox][/end] Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 29, 2005 11:31 AM From the link provided in the original post: They are among the 1,900 replacement workers deployed by Northwest to assume the duties of 4,430 mechanics, cleaners and other members of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association. The union struck the airline on Saturday over the airline's demand for $176 million in pay and benefit cuts. The replacements have spent the last three months training under a $107 million contingency plan that the airline crafted in anticipation of a strike. 1900 workers to replace 4300 workers? Wow, those 1900 must be miracle-workers, to do the job of three men. I wonder why they could not get jobs before becoming scabs? And the airline that is going broke decides to spend $107 million (plus ongoing costs of housing and security) to train scabs, when that money could have been put forth to the strikers as part of an agreement. Perhaps the airline has its own agenda? And how much wage and benefit consessions has management made? Any VP's taking a 26% cut? Getting rid of half the management are they? And gee, THREE whole months to train as an airline mechanic? I have yet to feel like an expert after only three months at any job, much less a job that requires asmuch skill as a airline mechanic. Perhaps the union could try to make the flying public more aware of just who is "fixing" the planes they are about to board. NO WAY would I fly on an airline with this sort of labor dispute going on. Nor would I cross the picket line. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 29, 2005 12:55 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by equinox From the link provided in the original post: They are among the 1,900 replacement workers deployed by Northwest to assume the duties of 4,430 mechanics, cleaners and other members of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association. The union struck the airline on Saturday over the airline's demand for $176 million in pay and benefit cuts. The replacements have spent the last three months training under a $107 million contingency plan that the airline crafted in anticipation of a strike. 1900 workers to replace 4300 workers? Wow, those 1900 must be miracle-workers, to do the job of three men. I wonder why they could not get jobs before becoming scabs? And the airline that is going broke decides to spend $107 million (plus ongoing costs of housing and security) to train scabs, when that money could have been put forth to the strikers as part of an agreement. Perhaps the airline has its own agenda? And how much wage and benefit consessions has management made? Any VP's taking a 26% cut? Getting rid of half the management are they? And gee, THREE whole months to train as an airline mechanic? I have yet to feel like an expert after only three months at any job, much less a job that requires asmuch skill as a airline mechanic. Perhaps the union could try to make the flying public more aware of just who is "fixing" the planes they are about to board. NO WAY would I fly on an airline with this sort of labor dispute going on. Nor would I cross the picket line. Some very good thoughts well worth repeating. If concession are to be made then management should be the FIRST to make concession on their OWN pay. I wonder if the scabs understand that THEY can be held ACCOUNTABLE for anything that goes wrong with what they have "fixed" ? They probally don't have an A & P license so they are having someone else "sign off" their work. I would not put my licenses and job on the line in this case. NO WAY. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by Tharmeni Of course, this is subjective and regional in nature, but having been a truck driver for 35 years, owner operator, non-union employee and union employee I've seen lots. One of the things I've noticed over the years is that whether a shop is union or not, it seems they both have the same percentage of slackers. At the union shop I work at now, there is a certain amount of peer pressure to do a good job - much more than at any non-union shop I've ever worked at over the years. I have seen and lived through the turmoil of the past 25 years within the trucking industry since deregulation. At most of the companies I witness go under, it had very little to do with labor and much more to do with management that refused to change. They just didn't get it, until it was too late. They thought we were the problem, we were not the problem, we were the solution. If Northwestern is to survive, they have to change the bureaucratic corporate culture, union busting will not save them. They need lots of change at the top. They have to get rid of the us verses them attitude, and make it a team effort by empowering labor to serve the customer and get the job done. I'm so grateful that I'm a teamster. June I was diagnosed with cancer and have not worked since then, my treatment has been covered by good insurance covered through the union, paid by my employer. No Cobra here, 12 months of premiums as well as a small weekly short term disability payment. My total out of pocket expense for co-pays was 2,000 bucks, nothing more to pay this year. Jim I.B.T. Local 533
QUOTE: Originally posted by equinox From the link provided in the original post: They are among the 1,900 replacement workers deployed by Northwest to assume the duties of 4,430 mechanics, cleaners and other members of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association. The union struck the airline on Saturday over the airline's demand for $176 million in pay and benefit cuts. The replacements have spent the last three months training under a $107 million contingency plan that the airline crafted in anticipation of a strike. 1900 workers to replace 4300 workers? Wow, those 1900 must be miracle-workers, to do the job of three men. I wonder why they could not get jobs before becoming scabs? And the airline that is going broke decides to spend $107 million (plus ongoing costs of housing and security) to train scabs, when that money could have been put forth to the strikers as part of an agreement. Perhaps the airline has its own agenda? And how much wage and benefit consessions has management made? Any VP's taking a 26% cut? Getting rid of half the management are they? And gee, THREE whole months to train as an airline mechanic? I have yet to feel like an expert after only three months at any job, much less a job that requires asmuch skill as a airline mechanic. Perhaps the union could try to make the flying public more aware of just who is "fixing" the planes they are about to board. NO WAY would I fly on an airline with this sort of labor dispute going on. Nor would I cross the picket line.
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