A conversation with Carolyn Mellon,Owners of Banks Steel Mills and oh yeah a Railroad (B&M Guilford)

[daveklepper]

Guilford is not the only player in New England and in several locations the Providence and Worcester does give them some competition. Most induestries are, however, on one or the other. I understand that the P&W does give good service and has worked with the State of Connecticut, in part using tax money but also some its own, to rehabilitate lines to improve service and in one or two cases to actually restore service. Possibly someone can supply more details. I do know that the P&W uses trackage rights on the New Haven RR portion of the NEC and so does Guilford.

[Anonymous]

Peterson
You are a dumb S**t head.
The workers were paid for what they did.
If they did not like the wage or the job, they could leave and
find a new job.
People work for me I pay them a fair wage but it was my money
put into it not theres.If things dont work out I am the one who will lose
every thing.
What is so hard for you to understand.
I have many expenses also,they dont pay the bills I do.
I worked hard to build my company up and I try to only work
half days now 7 to 7 but most of the time it ends up being more.
Maybe you should try and work one of these days.

[Anonymous]

The Wealthy patriarchs built there empires on the backs of the working class who are true people who should stand to inheirit the assets of the company that they worked to create and sustain
No Workers,No Railroad,No Profit,No Empire.
Our Democracy is threatened by Corpreate Conslidation as Empires Snowball and we lose our freedom of choice. In the future everything will be owned by Taco Bell (Demolition Man).
By granting Corprete Charters that are only good for the Lifetime of the applicant we can preserve our way of life. The state who created the Incorpration Papers and the Body Known as a Corperation should not become a servent to its own creation

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Doesn't NS run into New England?

Can some folk interchange with CN or CP via Montreal, Maine and Atlantic and a few other shortlines?

Nope, they have trackage rights on the D&H (CP/SOO), but that's it.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peterson6868

So what do you do then?
"We have our own lives and we get up every morning to earn our keep."
This is not the first time I have heard this. The White Anglo-Saxon Prosetent Work Ethic. The Childern of Rockefeller were only given one toy to play with at a time despite having closets full of them. Children of the wealty being seperated from the home lives to live in drab bording schools. Now it seems that the Old money that makes money the old fasioned way (Inherits It) wants nothing to do with Daddys Buisness other then get a trust check other month. -->SNIP<---
My point here is that the Class 1 railroads are largely controled by attorneys who set up trust funds on behalf of its benificuarys. As long as the real owners get a dividend check from there trust fund every month they have little to complain about. The Real *%*holes are the attorneys and accountants for the trust funds who they appoint whoes job is to maximises profit at any cost so that they can keep there jobs.

Here is the grand balance in the overall equibrium that you are overlooking:

The Wealthy patriarchs who built those fortunes from scratch at some point became broken hearted with the eventual realization that "junior" didn't have what it takes to fill the old man's shoes,....and knew that the evil hired help (the lawyers and accountants) would eventually screw the trustees out of a great share of the familial equity, but knew there wasn't a darn thing they could do to stop it.

When the "old block" went on to his reward, the chips would fall where they may.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

I proofread all my posts,before posting. But then I usually have to go back and fix the most obvious errors. When I get tired of all that work, I guess I'll just become a troll who's pretending to be a hobo. If you pay close attention to Quasihobo,you'll pick up on the fact that he seems to purposely nix the spelling and grammer. He knows better,but is just doing this for attention. Chances are pretty good that Quasihobo is a regular poster who is bored.!?!?

Which I should do more often. Thanks for the heads up in another thread.[:)]

I folk should be allowed to wear an occasional grammar error now and then.[:)]

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

I proofread all my posts,before posting. But then I usually have to go back and fix the most obvious errors. When I get tired of all that work, I guess I'll just become a troll who's pretending to be a hobo. If you pay close attention to Quasihobo,you'll pick up on the fact that he seems to purposely nix the spelling and grammer. He knows better,but is just doing this for attention. Chances are pretty good that Quasihobo is a regular poster who is bored.!?!?

Which I should do more often. Thanks for the heads up in another thread.[:)]

[Murphy Siding]

I proofread all my posts,before posting. But then I usually have to go back and fix the most obvious errors. When I get tired of all that work, I guess I'll just become a troll who's pretending to be a hobo. If you pay close attention to Quasihobo,you'll pick up on the fact that he seems to purposely nix the spelling and grammer. He knows better,but is just doing this for attention. Chances are pretty good that Quasihobo is a regular poster who is bored.!?!?

[Junctionfan]

Yes; take an English course. It's not just something you take if you want to go to England.[:D]

[SALfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peterson6868

not every public computer has spell check. There is not a spell check button on this forum.
The point is that the owners of the railroads dont give a *** about public policy and thus the railroads should be nationlised.

Here's a novel thought - LEARN HOW TO SPELL! LEARN GRAMMAR! LEARN SENTENCE STRUCTURE. Very few of us are great writers, but anyone can write an intelligible paragraph if they put forth the effort. Quit being lazy and depending on the computer.

[Anonymous]

I also belive that railroads should not be taxed. In Vermont and PA they are not taxed.
It is my position that railroads are quisi-govermental entitys(Like State Colleges). The legal history of quisi govermental entitys is a intresting and ling subject.
"Authoritys" such as Turnpike Authritys where not invented yet when this country needed railroads in the early to mid 1800s. So this country did what its preddesor did "As in Great Britain". They granted corpreate charters and try to sell bonds. In the British colonys such as in Canada "The Hudson Bay Company" was created by the King. The King then sought out investors from the Aristrcracy buy selling shares of stock in the venture. Only the King could grant or recind a corprate charter. After the American Revolution our country kept the common law that was ennacted under the British King. Our country and the member states needed railroads and canals. They tried selling bonds but this country was already in Default on the bonds from the American revolution and its credit sucked. Private individules did not have the authrity nor the trust from the investing public to sell shares of stock and issue bonds. So they sought that authority from the state.
The state responded by creating and issuing Corpreate Charters so that the new entitys would have the independendt authoroty to Issue Bonds,Issue securirty and in the Railroads case have the govemental authroty to condem land for the right of way. (Which is one of the reasons why I dont belive railroads should not have to pay taxes since the goverment granted them the land anyway). In Canada CN was created as a Goverment Owned coprpreation. In the 20th century Crown Corprations were created as liability limiteters to keep politics out of enitys such as VIA Rail and the Queens Expressway. In New York State was the Birth of "The Authority"
"The Authritys" were created by Robert B Moses and Delenor Roosevelt to build infrastucture such as Roads,Dams and Subways but to keep Politics out of it. The Authoritys had the right to Issue Bonds,Condem Land,Have there own Police Departemets but at the same time keep out of the public areana not have to have all of its meetings open to he public and sometimes being able to be under the direct control of the Governer and Robert B Moses.
When virtualy every Streetcar Companys and Private Transit Bus Compansy in the US went bankrupt in mass from 1949 to 1972. The Citys needed to keep this essnetiol service. But they did want to incure the liabilty of Runing a railroad or bus Company. Nor Did they have the expetise.
So they formed "Authritys: to run and fund the transit companys. The power of Authritys allowed the new enititys to be run as it were a private entity without having to change over corprete cultures from private ownership and hirearcy to a Public Buracracy. Many citys kept the old management realising that the bankrupts of the transit companys was not there fault but that of Market conditions and the the old gaurd knew how to run a Bus Companys or Subway..
My Point here is that Railroads should be run by Public Authoritys since the public created and gave the railroads the right to exist in the first place and there should be some public accountiblity.
If there is none then our whole system of democracy is screwed becuase the consolaidation of wealth and power will choke us off.(Not to mention kill the free enterprise system)

[Junctionfan]

Doesn't NS run into New England?

Can some folk interchange with CN or CP via Montreal, Maine and Atlantic and a few other shortlines?

[jchnhtfd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Is Guilford still a big deal that it would influence discontent in rail services?

In New England, it is. Guilford's principle predecessor was the Boston & Maine, and it is one of only two big players in New England (the other is CSX, which has problems of its own). There are two aspects to the current service picture in New England: local service, and access to the outside world. For most of southern New England, you are dependent on either CSX or Guilford for either one or both.

Part of the problem with Guilford, though, which has to be recognized (which I do, without judgement -- as I say, it's their business) is that there has been quite a history of labour strife involved, and New England memories tend to be long. The labour problems, however, predate Guilford, as do at least some of the maintenance issues. It's a long and complicated story.

[Junctionfan]

Is Guilford still a big deal that it would influence discontent in rail services?

[jchnhtfd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Are you sure Guliford is the retarded party?

Amen, Ed... I may not like all the things Guilford does and has done -- in fact, I have had some rather strong disagreements with them from time to time -- but it is a company, like any other company, and -- within the limits of their corporate charter (which is granted by the State) they can do as they like. As a closely held corporation, (the stock is not traded to the public), beyond adhering to their charter and the various State and Federal regulations -- which they do -- they are entitled to do as they see fit. If I don't like it, and I am a customer, I can trade with someone else (this is the USA, you know, not the old USSR). If I really don't like it, I can see if I can do something to change their ways; sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't.

But it's their business how they run their business.

I personally do not think that Guilford is responsible for the sad state of railroading in New England. In a former life, as some of you know, I worked for a competitor of their's, and believe me New England is a very very expensive and difficult region in which to operate a railroad. Labour costs are very high; property taxes are just plain outrageous, and the various local government bodies can drive you absolutely bonkers with regulations and laws and give you as little support as possible. I don't know the inside details of the thing, obviously, and it's none of my business, but I wonder if part of Guilford's resistance to upgrading the Portland line had to do with local property taxes. The outfit I worked for upgraded a section of its main line once, and the property taxes on it (which were already high -- the land was taxed for residential subdivision and the track at a good high figure too, never mind buildings, signals, etc. and so on) tripled. It takes a lot of traffic to recover an annual tax in the high five figures per mile for a single track main line...

[Anonymous]

Great response edblysard!!
Peterson6868: Try using Microsoft's word program. I am sure it is downloaded on the public computer that you are using. There is an icon designated ABC w/ a check mark beside it. Compose your post on MS Word and then click on the ABC. This will check your spelling and grammer for you. Correct any errors and then paste your message to the trains.com forum and bingo you're done.

Have the individuals at the public computer outlet assist you, that is what they are there for.

You are welcome.[:)]

[mloik]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peterson6868

the power of incoperation

"incoperation"? Powerful argument, indeed.

[edblysard]

Are you sure Guliford is the retarded party?

[dharmon]

While you may not like what they are doing, unless it is illegal..as determined by the goverment.....there is no basis to rescind anything. And as a privately held corporation, they are not required to make public any more than they have to, to conduct business........and shouldn't have to. What goes on between it's shareholders is their business.

[Anonymous]

Guilford is a closly held corperation that is very hard to get info on.
Guilford has fought against amtrak and has let there railroad track go down hill and abondoned many lines but holds on to key sections so that another railroad cant start up.
Guilford is retarding New Englands Growth and there custumer service is unreacable. There is intrest is in land specution not transportation. Guilford and most other railroads have state charters from the PUCs. Its Time To recind there charter. Guilford is NOT a propertary buisness like dads gas station. There are Incorperated by the state and that power of incorperation comes from the state. Private Corperation is a Oxymoron because coperations and the right to exist comes from the goverment. goverment as you and me.

[jchnhtfd]

To sort of get back to something like the beginning here...

May I remind all and sundry that the way a company -- pretty much any company, of any size -- is seen by most people is in how that company treats its customers, suppliers, and the general public. In my experience, Guilford is pretty good that way -- not much better than the other railroads in this part of the world (New England) but not much worse, either. They are kind of tough on trespassers, but they have to be -- southern New England particularly has a real and continuing problem with them everywhere.

As to the capitalistic aspect of it, if we are to have private enterprise, the money has to come from somewhere, and in our society that is from private individuals. The idea of the thing is to invest your money so that it gives a desired return. If the Mellon family chooses to invest in Guilford Transportation, that's fine by me. Their choice.

[Junctionfan]

I know this is harsh but why should we take everybody in all the time. The U.S and Canada particularly Canada, has a weakness on letting everybody in. That's is most likely why we have had so much violence particularly in Toronto;because we don't screen immigrants properly. I swear ever since China took over Hong Kong, the Triad has become greater in numbers here.

Why can't folk fix their own countries with as much passion as North America and Europe did in the past centuries?

[dharmon]

Coming here because no one else will take them????? Puleeese......They are coming here for economic opportunity......to build a life they could not have elsewhere......do the European countries limit immigration.....of course, because it's all they can do to pay for their own folks.....but then again the opportunities to succeed are not there either.....how many stories of immigrants moving to France and becoming well off are there? There is a reason it's not called the French Dream....or the Norwegian Dream.....this is still one of the only countries where you can literally start with nothing and make something of yourself......so if a family has achieved and now no longer ahs to work.......what's so bad......other than you are not a apart of it........very Gen X thinking...I demand a job..but I don't want to work, and I want to be the boss and paid well.....forget that I have not paid any dues to get there....

[Anonymous]

Majority of those people are coming from third world countrys. NOT from socialistic countrys that take care of there people like Germany or Denmark. They are coming here because no one else will take them

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peterson6868

Should we have a very important peice of th nations infrastucture controlled by private individules
who are acting in the intrest of profit and collecting dividends and not acting in the public intrest.
The right and authrity to run a railroad comes from the surface transportation board who must certify each railroads right to run. The Power to form a corperation comes from the secratary of state in the state the railroad ws incorperated(Most likely Delawere). The reason why corperations were formed in the first place was that our young country did not have the money or credit to build infrastuacture and thus turned to investors. Guilfords predesors (B&M,MEC,Massetutcets Central,Fitchburg Railroad) sold its first shares of stock to the towns along the Right Of Way that wanted and needed a railroad. The Robber Barons were able to weasal out of the public ownership and control by dilulting stock,renaming railroad to railway, changing shell companys,
Declairing bankruptsy and issuing junk bonds. They used tacticts that would later be used by and refined by the likes of Enron 125 years later. The Intent of the states issuing charters to railroads and giving them the power of incoperation was to atract capital but still keep some semblence of public control. The Railroads have not always acted in the public intrest exspacialy when it comes to allowing Public Passenger trains on its lines. The fact of the matter is that the public already owns the railroads thru the power that is granted or could be recinded thru the act of incoperation and the charters granted to such entitys by there respective states.

Yup and we learned alot from that period and have made changes....so what you are saying is that you don't want to work for someone else's benefit ....bad news hoss, in case rifling through the McD's garbage hadn't taught you...you don't get to start out being the man......

Why do you think that as bad as the US is...the great Satan....so many people come here everyday legally or otherwise to achieve the American dream.....to work, earn and achieve a better lifestyle for them and there family......maybe they're on to something..........


So boo hoo....you weren't born or marry into a wealthy family....get over over it....

...so...go down to Starbuck's ....get a nice table to sit and read the help wanted ads and enjoy a hot steaming cup of shut the hell up.....

[Anonymous]

Should we have a very important peice of th nations infrastucture controlled by private individules
who are acting in the intrest of profit and collecting dividends and not acting in the public intrest.
The right and authrity to run a railroad comes from the surface transportation board who must certify each railroads right to run. The Power to form a corperation comes from the secratary of state in the state the railroad ws incorperated(Most likely Delawere). The reason why corperations were formed in the first place was that our young country did not have the money or credit to build infrastuacture and thus turned to investors. Guilfords predesors (B&M,MEC,Massetutcets Central,Fitchburg Railroad) sold its first shares of stock to the towns along the Right Of Way that wanted and needed a railroad. The Robber Barons were able to weasal out of the public ownership and control by dilulting stock,renaming railroad to railway, changing shell companys,
Declairing bankruptsy and issuing junk bonds. They used tacticts that would later be used by and refined by the likes of Enron 125 years later. The Intent of the states issuing charters to railroads and giving them the power of incoperation was to atract capital but still keep some semblence of public control. The Railroads have not always acted in the public intrest exspacialy when it comes to allowing Public Passenger trains on its lines. The fact of the matter is that the public already owns the railroads thru the power that is granted or could be recinded thru the act of incoperation and the charters granted to such entitys by there respective states.

[daveklepper]

I am perfectly happy to see a member of the Mellon family quietly collecting her check every month because if I objected then I wouldn't have the right to collect my Social Security check which is what I live on. Better she do that than what her ancestor did when he had the New Haven go on a spending binge to buy up every streetcar and steamship company in all of southern New England to drive the railroad into banckrupcy. And Guilford does seem to be a good, customer sensitive, frieght hauler.

[Junctionfan]

Even communists work for a living. If I'm not mistaken, if you failed to work hard enough for the state, you were shot or at least spent time in prison.

[ValleyX]

Blather. Think you must be on the wrong board. And, I don't think you're going to find much sympathy for hobos here. I would say the vast majority of regulars here already knew the Mellon family wasn't involved in the day-to-day operation of the Guilford lines. No big surprises.

As for not having spellcheck, was there something wrong with paying attention in school? That might have worked out better.