What Should Be Done . . .

[Anonymous]

What should be done to reduce the number of grade crossing accidents?

This is a serious question, I am not looking jokes here.

Do we need more police to monitor railroad crossings?

Do we need tougher laws on the books to deter accidents at crossings?

Do we need an end to lawsuits against the railroads involved in a grade crossing accident?

What are your ideas and suggestion to reduce traffic accidents at railroad crossings?

[Anonymous]

Do we need more police to monitor railroad crossings?

Like they can spare the manpower, maybe use cameras like at intersections, but that still isn't going to stop them, I heard on our local radio how the street cameras here are having no effect on crime.

Do we need tougher laws on the books to deter accidents at crossings?

That may be a start, higher fines, maybe tie-in to it being a moving viloation, 3X of any MV and you lose your license.

Do we need an end to lawsuits against the railroads involved in a grade crossing accident?

No because there could be a valid reason for a lawsuit. I remember seeing somewhere a chart showing how a RR/Street crossing should be setup for visability.

What are your ideas and suggestion to reduce traffic accidents at railroad crossings?

Better education is the only way, if people think that RR tracks are just a bump in the road, they don't understand the dangers of what truly travels the rail.

My 2¢

[Anonymous]

This argument has been much to the fore lately. Check out the Topic called "QUITE[sic] ZONES."

[Tulyar15]

As far as the problem in the UK is concerned, I think tougher enforcement of the existing law ought to solve the problem. Nothing like zero tolerance.

[mudchicken]

FRA and Department of Transportation are working the human factor side of the equation hard (Just witnessed the Volpe Center program in Boston yesterday), the unpredictable human nature side of the equation is dauntinting.

Have stated before that if you are the cause of a train-auto at a crossing and survive, you should not be allowed back behind the wheel and the conditions to be met to regain the driving PRIVILEDGE (it is NOT a right) should be more stringent than the current DUI regs making it tough to get that license back, if at all.

[daveklepper]

But also, there should be far better monitoring of relatively unprotected crossings, those without gates, flashing lights, and bells, to insure that visibility is good. Also, in some situations coordination with local traffic control must be improved, preventing a car or truck to be stuck on a crossing as the gates are about to go down because of a line before a red signal a tenth of a mile away (for example).

[Anonymous]

Install Cameras just Red light runners. Allan.

[Junctionfan]

Hand out $50,000 fines to pedestrians, $100,000 to cars and $200,000 to trucks.

I guarantee that will dramatically reduce the incidents or eventually pay for an overpass if necessary.

[Mookie]

Big Muddy - I support what you say, but experience is that even though you jerk the license (rather than drawing and quartering the licensee) he/she will drive again - albeit illegally. Vehicles are very important to the human race and they just aren't going to do without one - license or no and gas prices through the roof.

99% of the gate crashers are men and about 25% of them have kids with them.

Cameras are nice, but that puts the onus on the police dept - and they are already overloaded - at least in this community - corralling out of control 5 year olds that parents either can't or won't parent.

I think you get a person's attention through their wallet. But you need judges & politicians to cooperate. At this point, education isn't going to work - you need that for those uncorralled 5 year olds!

And really, why is it the duty of the railroads to take responsibility for people who take no responsibility for themselves. They want a thrill so they run or jump in front of the train. When this happens and they are injured or die, then maybe we should seek damages for the railroads from the survivors.

Case in point - you hit a light pole here in Lincoln. You damage the light pole and they send you a bill. Just because a train moves, it is still pretty stationary. We want to blame the semi-stationary object for everyone else's stupidity.

Let's reverse the trend!

OK - you can all dogpile!

Mook!

[oltmannd]

Here's what I'd do:

1. Close as many crossings as possible.

2. Increase the level of protection at the rest. (add lights, gates, speed based timing, grade separation, etc). Gradually raise thresholds for what type of protection is needed based on highway and rail traffic.

3. Turn over maintenance of the lights and gates to the local highway dept. RRs keep control of track circuits up to contact closure for triggering gates and lights.

4. Increase the use of 4 quadrant gates.

5. Make more state and federal highway funds availble for doing the upgrades.

[bobwilcox]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd

Here's what I'd do:

1. Close as many crossings as possible.

2. Increase the level of protection at the rest. (add lights, gates, speed based timing, grade separation, etc). Gradually raise thresholds for what type of protection is needed based on highway and rail traffic.

3. Turn over maintenance of the lights and gates to the local highway dept. RRs keep control of track circuits up to contact closure for triggering gates and lights.

4. Increase the use of 4 quadrant gates.

5. Make more state and federal highway funds availble for doing the upgrades.

I would to add to your excellant list increased funding for grade seperation. This is a very high priority in Nebraska along the coal lines coming out of the Powder River Basin. It often goes hand in hand with closing other street cossings in the town getting an overpass.

[coborn35]

We should treat it like a DUI, if you get caught, you go to jail.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by coborn35

We should treat it like a DUI, if you get caught, you go to jail.

Treat it the same way they do ignoring school buses with the stop arm out. I know in this area they get a report, they will show up at your door.

[oltmannd]

The only thing wrong with the "tougher enforement/penatly" idea is that, unlike speeding, people don't get clobbered by trains on purpose. It's usually bad judgement - which is hard to "enforce" out of people.

It's sort of like saying, "I pay Jim Thome $6M and he hits 45 home runs. If I pay him $12M, then he owes me 90 home runs a season." There is physical limit to his ability and paying him more doesn't change it.

[Hugh Jampton]

Education, education, education (a phrase once used by one of our politicians)
plus a good public humiliation for offenders (bring back the stocks I say)..

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton

Education, education, education (a phrase once used by one of our politicians)
plus a good public humiliation for offenders (bring back the stocks I say)..

Every railroad uses Operation Lifesaver. Many have painted locos into moving Operation Lifesaver billboards. Does Operation Lifesaver work? There is no way of measuring it effectiveness, so we really don't know. We can only hope it is making an impact upon the people it touches.

Crossing accidents and lawsuits are getting out of hand. It seems like stupidity now pays and pays well. Maybe as part of the drivers license process a mandatory Operation Lifesaver course should be required.

Comments?

[mhurley87f]

If cameras can be installed at the most frequently abused crossings, certainly the law needs to be enforced vigorously. I would also suggest that where the errant vehicles can be identified, then the insurers of those vehicles should be informed. After all, might they not have some serious reservations about renewing the policy of a driver who looks likely to cause a $multi million claim?

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd

Here's what I'd do:

1. Close as many crossings as possible. ALREADY DONE

2. Increase the level of protection at the rest. (add lights, gates, speed based timing, grade separation, etc). Gradually raise thresholds for what type of protection is needed based on highway and rail traffic......NO MONEY

3. Turn over maintenance of the lights and gates to the local highway dept. RRs keep control of track circuits up to contact closure for triggering gates and lights.
YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING - STATE TRAFFIC FOLKS ARE NOWHERE NEAR THE LEVEL OF THE RAILROAD TRAINED TECHNICIAN and are fewer in number

4. Increase the use of 4 quadrant gates. $$$$$

5. Make more state and federal highway funds availble for doing the upgrades.

$$$$

[Mookie]

And where will that $$$$$ come from?

I think MC already knows the indirect answer to that!

Moo - a very poor taxpayer....

(Hi MC - how's the sabbatical?)

[Anonymous]

IMHO: Even if all of the above suggestions were implemented with some inexhaustable supply of money, it would only result in a small decrease in grade crossing accidents and deaths.

The problem lies with the people who insist on racing the train to the crossing, trespassing on railroad property, not being aware of their surroundings while driving, driving while intoxicated, etc., etc.

Unfortunately, the only people who "learn" from a grade crossing incident are the victims -- living or dead.

Personally, I would like to learn more about what services are provided to the train crews for dealing with these accidents.

[Anonymous]

I would suggest more police officers riding trains and identifying and ticketing those drivers who run warning devices. I think a few tickets and a little "press" would help get the word out. However, this would have to be a continuing event. Tickets on the license would increase the driver's insurance, and we all know about rising insurance costs.

[edblysard]

Well,
After the cops and the wizz wagon leaves, the trainmaster offers you the choice to continue working (if your locomotive is still usable) or takes you back to your terminal, you get in your car and go home.
Thats pretty much it.

Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by miker2002

IMHO: Even if all of the above suggestions were implemented with some inexhaustable supply of money, it would only result in a small decrease in grade crossing accidents and deaths.

The problem lies with the people who insist on racing the train to the crossing, trespassing on railroad property, not being aware of their surroundings while driving, driving while intoxicated, etc., etc.

Unfortunately, the only people who "learn" from a grade crossing incident are the victims -- living or dead.

Personally, I would like to learn more about what services are provided to the train crews for dealing with these accidents.

[zardoz]

Originally posted by edblysard

Well,
After the cops and the wizz wagon leaves, the trainmaster offers you the choice to continue working (if your locomotive is still usable) or takes you back to your terminal, you get in your car and go home.
Thats pretty much it.

Ed
[quote
And then you live the rest of your life with the visual and emotional experiences of the incident permanently etched on your mind, available for review whenever you wish (which is never).

It wasn't the idiot that drives his car around the gate that I ever had recurring memories of; they were just idiots that the world just might be better off without. It wasn't the moron that was playing chicken and lost that bothered me (although pedestrian strikes are usually quite messy).

It is the look on the faces of the innocent victims, such as the passengers in a car being driven around the gates, or the look on a kid's face as their moronic parents drive around the gates.

Believe me, the look on someone's face as they see your locomotive bearing down on them at a high rate of speed, knowing full well that they are about to die, is an expression that you remember forever. And no matter how much Hollywood might try to replicate the look of abject terror in its movies, NOTHING even comes close to the fear a train crew sees just before they kill someone.

It has been 30 years since my first fatality at a grade crossing, and if I choose to, I can recall with great clarity the expression on the face of the wife of the person than was in such a hurry he could not wait for my suburban train, travelling at 70mph, to clear the crossing. She died instantly, he 'escaped' with injuries (and the memory of killing his wife).

How can this be prevented? I sure do not know, other than with the implemtation of the many fine suggestions already made here. But as a (former) member of a train crew, I sure would like to see something change for the better.

And by the way, the reason for the above mentioned person going around the gates resulting in the death of his wife? He had to drop her off at home so he could be on time for a sporting event!

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