What era did massive vandalism (graffiti) begin appearing on freight cars ?

[samfp1943]

tree68

 

tomikawaTT

My first question is, how did this 10 year old thread re-surface after all this time?

 

 

Usually it's a recent "joinee" roaming through the forums just to see what's out there, or buried 47 pages down, or someone doing a search.

 

Zombie  Apocalypse

 

[Benchedthatpiece]

Anonymous

i know several guys who take more photos of graff on trains than of engines or rolling stock.

I may as well jump in with my first post being on a subject that got me into trains in the first place. If it had not been for graffiti I would have never given a train a second look. I'm one of those guys that love the locomotives, but I'm more interested in what comes after them. One of my Flickr pages is nothing but graffiti. Most fans are after heritage units, I'm after the elusive wholecar (which is a lot harder to catch).

I've learned not to argue with the anti graffiti people as it's their right not to like it and that's fine. I also know that graffiti is what got lots of railfans involved in this great hobby. I have never once said I condone it and never will. It's been around forever and will be after we're dead and gone. Graffiti got me into trains and reading Trains magazine for many years now (off the newstand until now). It has me trying to make the transition from benching to railfan. Trying to learn the symbols, etc that go with railfanning.

As for how long the massive graffiti has been around I couldn't tell you. I've seen a few great pieces that have been riding untouched since the 80s....

 

Jay

 

 

[54light15]

In Belgium and other countries in Europe, the passenger trains have graffiti. The other day I saw a GO Transit train with graffiti covering the windows. But, it's not all bad, have a look at this:

 

https://www.google.ca/search?q=best+graffiti+in+toronto&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Xsy6VKWxOc6NyATp6IGQDQ&ved=0CCwQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=620

[ROBERT WILLISON]

Graffiti was definitely thier in the late 60' s remember seeing it from the CTS rapid on the way down town.

[BaltACD]

tree68

 

tomikawaTT

My first question is, how did this 10 year old thread re-surface after all this time?

 

 

Usually it's a recent "joinee" roaming through the forums just to see what's out there, or buried 47 pages down, or someone doing a search.

 

And we all know searches won't return anything you are actually looking for.

Last Page according to what shows up for me is 1171.  Something about C&O Pain

[tree68]

tomikawaTT

My first question is, how did this 10 year old thread re-surface after all this time?

Usually it's a recent "joinee" roaming through the forums just to see what's out there, or buried 47 pages down, or someone doing a search.

[tomikawaTT]

My first question is, how did this 10 year old thread re-surface after all this time?

During my time in Texas a half-century ago, "Jesus saves," was all over.  My favorite?  "Jesus Saves," in big white letters on a black vertical girder (deck girder bridge.)  Someone else added, in green, in smaller script, "Green stamps."

Chuck

[samfp1943]

I do not claim to be an expert on graffiti by any means; my recolections of railroad graffiti in the 1950's was mostly chalk marks on the area of the cars by the lower floor sills.  There was none of the hughe full cars "art Work' that seems to be the current trend: See this Thread Post by Balt ACD @Posted by BaltACD on Monday, January 05, 2015 6:27 PM

 

I have not seen anything nearly that of that size and skillfully executed.

Mostly, my rememberances of the 1950's was small chalked items: ie: One popular one, I saw a lot in the Mid-South area was one of a mexican asleep under a palm tree, with the Name 'Pedro' chalked on it. 'Killroy' was another popular one. 

There would be from time to time chalked epithets, vulgarities, and curses. There were also be  train numbers chalked on cars, notes about 'Bad Ordered' cars ( back then they would also staple a small piece of paper with more information on the boards afixed to the cars for that purpose... 

With the Brakemen and Conductors who woud switch cars from the ground, they would use the sides of cars to jot down notes for the next guy, and so forth.. Just remember lots of individual crewmen, who worked 'duties on the ground' did not have the currently ubiquitous hand held radios. They relied on whistle signals, and hand signals for communication. It was in the late 40's and early 50's when radios were installed in cabs.  

My guess on the current styles of graffiti on railroads started in the 1970's or 80's in mostly urban areas, and has spread out to more isolated locations (?)

 

[vsmith]

 

[pajrr]

When I was a teenager in the 70's I would joy ride the Erie Lackawanna lines out of Hoboken. I recall that somewhere along the ex-Lackawanna mainline on the abutment of a bridge someone had painted "Phoebe Snow Died An Erie Death". I always remembered that piece of "graffiti". Maybe by a disheartened railroad employee.

[woodctr51]

Kilroy was not graffiti. Mr. Kilroy was a tank tester in Bath Ironworks, Bath, Maine on the Liberty ships. He would inspect a tank, there was not enough time for paperwork with the war effort (WWII) and ships were going out every day to carry soldiers and war materials across the Atlantic to England. When he inspected a tank, and it passed he would chalk the familiar "Kilroy was here" along with the cute cartoon to indicate the tank was safe. These ships were built so fast and sent out so fast that many went out with hardly any paint on the inside and it was up to the crew to finish the job while dodging U-Boats. Many of the ones that were fortunate enough to return stateside came back in basically the same condition with the chalks still intact by the entrances to the tanks.

[joegreen]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fievel

Thanks guys, for all the interesting info. I'm simply amazed that anyone
would spend so much time doing such things. I wi***hey would purchase
a drawing book, though. Or paint their bedroom walls. Since it costs so much
money to remove their "markings", I would think legislatures would really
crack down on the vandals, especially post 9/11.[sigh]

It doesn't take much time to do graffiti.I can do a word in 5 minutes,just not a huge word with many different designs to it and even then it doesn't take long for them.They do draw on books and then take it to the streets.They think about what design they want for their word(usually the name of there gang),draw it in a book,and then later spray it on a wall or train car.


Here's a site for Graffiti
http://www.graffiti.org/

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jesus1st

too bad the graff artists cant put all that energy to better use.

Better use? You people are just upset that these people have decided to use your fasination as their medium. If you think about it, its of the mor real artforms out there these days. These people, usually not highschool kids, but older people, 20-30, older sometimes, younger less than that, are out their risking everything to put artwork up, good artwork, but because its with a can instead of a brush, on something they dont own, its looked down upon. They arent asking your money to look at it inside an airconditioned room, you dont have to drive to the city and pay to park. AYou dont have to buy a book to appreciate it. This artwork, you dont hve to drive to california to see a California artists work, you can sit on your chair, with your camera and appreciate it where you are at, not where it was done. If they dont cover numbers, there is no real harm being done, they are in no more danger in what they are doing, where they are doing this, than the workers in the same area. these people have more knowledge of the rail system than im sure most of you do.

And, to top that, MOST are in the same exact boat as you are in, they enjoy railroads for what they are, they enjoy the sound, the sight, and being around them. Sure, they have taken a differnt approach to them.

And to the guy who said it costs lots of money, if it costs so much, and its such a problem, why do you even see it then? if the railroads were doing something about it, then you would never see graffiti, but you would see brand newly painted cars all the time.

Thats just my two cents.

OneSecondPle

[Anonymous]

Better late than never. Just read these postings. FYI there was a great film on PBS in the early 90's called 'Style Wars' about the graffitti artists (for a short time it truly was art) and the battle they had with the New York Subway System. Before New York took all those cars out to the whitewashers there was much discussion about whether this style of graffitti was art or vandalism. If you see this film you'll see what I mean. Possibly available from PBS.

[Anonymous]

i noticed it big in 90's, i know several guys who take more photos of graff on trains than of engines or rolling stock. too bad the graff artists cant put all that energy to better use. there are some real tallent out there. just want to be noticed cause as kids only attention they got was a punch in head or a unkind word. a anti stick teflon coat on cars so paint would run off may help curb it.

[CSXrules4eva]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fievel

Thanks guys, for all the interesting info. I'm simply amazed that anyone
would spend so much time doing such things. I wi***hey would purchase
a drawing book, though. Or paint their bedroom walls. Since it costs so much
money to remove their "markings", I would think legislatures would really
crack down on the vandals, especially post 9/11.[sigh]

You would be very suprised to know of how many people spend on their art work, graffiti. I when I was in high school which wasn't too long ago I couldn't even beging to count how many people I knew of that did graffiti. It was and still is a popular item among students at Springfield Twh High School. I guess mainly the reason being is because, nothing else ever happens in boring Springfield Twh.

I'm going to have to think that graffiti really started to pick up in the 80s. It's still pretty popular now days. Here is my take on graffiti. I really don't like to see it on any kind of railroad equipment I don't care if it's an old pice of crap that's been siting on a siding for 90+ years. I don't want to see it. However, I do like to see it on walls (your own walls), drawings, paintings, and clothing. I personally have done some graffiti when I took Art III in hich school. I also have done some air brush work graffiti work on clothing before.

[CHIPSTRAINS]

GRAFFITI, WENT FULL BLOWN, WHEN RAIL POLICE AND OTHER POLICE INSTITUTTIONS WERE TOLD TO "TRY TO UNDERSTAND THESE PEOPLE", INSTEAD OF BEATING THE #@$%& [CRAP] OUT OF THEM. SOMETIMES,I BELIEVE, THAT THE OLD WAY WAS MUCH BETTER. THE CULPRITS, ARE USULLY SOCIETY'S SCUM-BAGS, WHO,[IF WHEN YOUNGER] WERE GIVEN A GOOD OL' FASHIONED BUTT WARMING, WOULDN'T BE ACTING THE WAY THEY DO. BUT, WE MUST BE KIND TO THESE FOLKS, CAUSE WE MIGHT NEED THEIR VOTE!!!![:(!][;)][censored][2c]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ardenastationmaster

I take it you are wanting to establish a time frame for a model railroad, in which case, the late 1960s would be a good dividing line between old days of "Kilroy" and "Jesus Saves", done in chalk (prior to the end of the steam era), and age of the spray can, which made tagging (the act of creating graffiti) much easier, during the adolescent years of the baby boomers (i.e., massive population influx).
Ardenastationmaster

I tend to agree,.. graffiti under and around bridges, sprayed in paint that read "Class of '71" come to mind, and the ever popular "trick"of closing up the 3 in the 35 MPH speed limit signs with black spraycan so that they read 85 MPH is something i can recall back to the mid 60's

[dldance]

Another particularly damaging form is scratchings or etchings on the glass in passenger and transit vehicles. Sometimes makes reading the platform signs difficult.

dd

[Eric Stuart]

I seem to recall seeing a large book of photographs (almost ceratainly of USA origin) in a UK library in the 70s. It was called "Watching My Name Go By" and was of graffiti on the NY subway. It must have been well-entrenched by then, but I can't recall the publicatuion date of the book. I suspect early 70s at the latest.
We started to have it on the London underground by about 1980, copying the US (as usual!!!!)
Eric (British, but currently in France)

[oldyardgoat]

I take it you are wanting to establish a time frame for a model railroad, in which case, the late 1960s would be a good dividing line between old days of "Kilroy" and "Jesus Saves", done in chalk (prior to the end of the steam era), and age of the spray can, which made tagging (the act of creating graffiti) much easier, during the adolescent years of the baby boomers (i.e., massive population influx).
Ardenastationmaster

[fievel]

Thanks guys, for all the interesting info. I'm simply amazed that anyone
would spend so much time doing such things. I wi***hey would purchase
a drawing book, though. Or paint their bedroom walls. Since it costs so much
money to remove their "markings", I would think legislatures would really
crack down on the vandals, especially post 9/11.[sigh]

[mrunyan]

I saw some recently up in Canada and it was in french.

[JimValle]

I can't say when the new grafitti got started exactly but I suspect it was just about the time that municipal transit systems started to button up their storage yards and make it really difficult for the spray can crowd. The freight railroads became the easier targets and the really flambouyant grafitti began to be seen, especially on smooth sided covered hoppers! I can tell you it's an international phenomenon. I was riding trains in France last summer and the grafitti was everywhere! Political grafitti and wall painting has long been a tradition in Europe but this new stuff was strictly personal, cartoonish, and comprehensible only to the "artist".

[Anonymous]

Yes, it means "scratchings." Bear in mind that not only did the Romans not have spray paint, they didn't have colored chalk or magic markers. Still, one can do a lot of damage with a sharp stone, especially if it's the sedimentary kind like limestone! "Graffiti" In Italian, is a plural noun (graffito would indicate one mark or, I guess, one tag). Just like spaghetti are! [^]

[Gluefinger]

There was graffiti in the Roman Empire as well, so it's not exactly new....and isn't graffiti an Italian word?

[dsbrightlines]

Hey tree68, I thought "Bozo Texino" was George W. Bush!!

[tree68]

Graffiti is much older than the railroads - I'm sure that the first "tag" happened not long after railroads came into being.

Seems like Trains did an article on graffiti a while back. Someone else can do the search. One "tag" that I remember is "Bozo Texino", which included a face with a sombrero, IIRC. I think that was from the '40s.

[Anonymous]

You might want to search out an earlier Topic called "American Graffiti" for more experiences, opinions, and timelines.