What era did massive vandalism (graffiti) begin appearing on freight cars ?

[fievel]

I'm not trying to rehash any old arguments about graffiti.
I'm just curious as to the time period / era when it started
taking over. I don't recall any of this stuff back when I was
growing up in the Sixties. Gosh, I sure miss the good
old days !

It seems like everywhere you look, it's there.[V]

[Anonymous]

I grew up in the 60's as well, and I can tell you that graffitti was alive and well back then. Even more destructive forms of vandalism were popular back then, such as smashing windows on new cars in transit on open autorackss

I've also seen artsy graffitti on box cars in classic trains magazine dating from the steam era...

[conrailman]

People should have they hands cut off like over Seas they do that stuff.[2c]

[vsmith]

Ever see a NYC subway or Metro train circa 1975? Oh Boy was graffiti around then, and it could almost be called art, almost that is...same for freights about the same time. I would say as soon as the spray paint can was invented, thats when the graffiti began to appear all over everything, but it was mostly graffiti, not tagging, that came later when no talented numb-knuts got there hands on the spray cans.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

I grew up in the 60's as well, and I can tell you that graffitti was alive and well back then. Even more destructive forms of vandalism were popular back then, such as smashing windows on new cars in transit on open autorackss

I've also seen artsy graffitti on box cars in classic trains magazine dating from the steam era...

I personally don't recall seeing an awful lot in the 70's around 71-74. I do remember the chalk type graffiti, but not the loud, colerful stuff we see now a days. Would be interesting to know when the cycle started to happen. I have yet to see any steam era graffiti, would be interesting to see what they did.

[Anonymous]

I'll take a stab at this and suggest the late eighties or early ninties for the rail car covering graffiti. So much for the chalk drawings on the sides of cars. At least that was more conspicuous.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman

I have yet to see any steam era graffiti, would be interesting to see what they did.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman

I have yet to see any steam era graffiti, would be interesting to see what they did.

Well sure I have seen that, usually it was chalked on the car, that to me is harmless. The major waste of paint is another item all together.

[Big_Boy_4005]

The spray can was invented in 1949, and was improved in 1953. It took a while to take off as a popular form of vandalism. It wasn't really common on railroad equipment until the late 70' or early 80's.

http://www.hiphop-network.com/articles/graffitiarticles/historyofgraff-arpone.asp

Whoever wrote the piece in the link above either doesn't speak English as a first language, or has been smelling the fumes too long. Maybe both, but you'll get the jist of the message.

[nobullchitbids]

I also do not recall massive graffiti prior to the late 70s. I think that, in addition to the spray can, it also took refinement of associated gang activity -- a "mark your territory" sort of mentality. Perhaps I simply was not located in the right area. In some locations, presence of railroad police no doubt deterred some of that stuff, but roads running into financial difficulties probably had to cut back on cops with everything else, creating opportunities for the artistically inclined..

[ericsp]

A few weeks ago I was looking at photographs I took in the late 1980s and early 1990s. I noticed that there was not nearly as much graffiti on freight cars as there is today.

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=-1&TOPIC_ID=40680&REPLY_ID=423104#423104

[Anonymous]

[Murphy Siding]

What's the difference between graffiti and tagging?

[kencompton]

Massive vandalism graffiti seemed to get out of control starting in the early '90's. I can look at slides from before that, and it doesn't seem to be so bad. What really got me was when it started to appear on locomotives. No doubt about it though...it stinks no matter what it's on!

[Anonymous]

In a time when rail travel by non fare paying transients (that's Tramps, Hobos & Bums to you young guys) was a popular means of going anywhere to find work, there was a lot of very interesting grafitti. This was generally in scripted code and told of what and who to avoid and where there might be an offer of friendship and the ability to earn a dime or two.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

What's the difference between graffiti and tagging?

Graffiti tends to be impersonal expression of idea or art,
while 'tagging" tends to be placing a personalized i.d. onto public places for recognotion

For instance there was this guy calling himself "Chaka" in the LA area, who had tagged over 400 public buildings and structures ranging from San Diego to oakland during his career. The State estimated he had caused over a million dollars worth of damage by the time they actually nailed him.

I used to see his 'stuff' ALL over, and it was amazing the places he would go, and the risk he would take, to plant his tags in mind blowing locations

Here is an example of his handiwork

Moreover, graffiti is like "kilroy was here" while tagging is the modern day equivalent of carving your initials into a tree

[Anonymous]

You might want to search out an earlier Topic called "American Graffiti" for more experiences, opinions, and timelines.

[tree68]

Graffiti is much older than the railroads - I'm sure that the first "tag" happened not long after railroads came into being.

Seems like Trains did an article on graffiti a while back. Someone else can do the search. One "tag" that I remember is "Bozo Texino", which included a face with a sombrero, IIRC. I think that was from the '40s.

[dsbrightlines]

Hey tree68, I thought "Bozo Texino" was George W. Bush!!

[Gluefinger]

There was graffiti in the Roman Empire as well, so it's not exactly new....and isn't graffiti an Italian word?

[Anonymous]

Yes, it means "scratchings." Bear in mind that not only did the Romans not have spray paint, they didn't have colored chalk or magic markers. Still, one can do a lot of damage with a sharp stone, especially if it's the sedimentary kind like limestone! "Graffiti" In Italian, is a plural noun (graffito would indicate one mark or, I guess, one tag). Just like spaghetti are! [^]

[JimValle]

I can't say when the new grafitti got started exactly but I suspect it was just about the time that municipal transit systems started to button up their storage yards and make it really difficult for the spray can crowd. The freight railroads became the easier targets and the really flambouyant grafitti began to be seen, especially on smooth sided covered hoppers! I can tell you it's an international phenomenon. I was riding trains in France last summer and the grafitti was everywhere! Political grafitti and wall painting has long been a tradition in Europe but this new stuff was strictly personal, cartoonish, and comprehensible only to the "artist".

[mrunyan]

I saw some recently up in Canada and it was in french.

[fievel]

Thanks guys, for all the interesting info. I'm simply amazed that anyone
would spend so much time doing such things. I wi***hey would purchase
a drawing book, though. Or paint their bedroom walls. Since it costs so much
money to remove their "markings", I would think legislatures would really
crack down on the vandals, especially post 9/11.[sigh]

[oldyardgoat]

I take it you are wanting to establish a time frame for a model railroad, in which case, the late 1960s would be a good dividing line between old days of "Kilroy" and "Jesus Saves", done in chalk (prior to the end of the steam era), and age of the spray can, which made tagging (the act of creating graffiti) much easier, during the adolescent years of the baby boomers (i.e., massive population influx).
Ardenastationmaster

[Eric Stuart]

I seem to recall seeing a large book of photographs (almost ceratainly of USA origin) in a UK library in the 70s. It was called "Watching My Name Go By" and was of graffiti on the NY subway. It must have been well-entrenched by then, but I can't recall the publicatuion date of the book. I suspect early 70s at the latest.
We started to have it on the London underground by about 1980, copying the US (as usual!!!!)
Eric (British, but currently in France)

[dldance]

Another particularly damaging form is scratchings or etchings on the glass in passenger and transit vehicles. Sometimes makes reading the platform signs difficult.

dd

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ardenastationmaster

I take it you are wanting to establish a time frame for a model railroad, in which case, the late 1960s would be a good dividing line between old days of "Kilroy" and "Jesus Saves", done in chalk (prior to the end of the steam era), and age of the spray can, which made tagging (the act of creating graffiti) much easier, during the adolescent years of the baby boomers (i.e., massive population influx).
Ardenastationmaster

I tend to agree,.. graffiti under and around bridges, sprayed in paint that read "Class of '71" come to mind, and the ever popular "trick"of closing up the 3 in the 35 MPH speed limit signs with black spraycan so that they read 85 MPH is something i can recall back to the mid 60's

[CHIPSTRAINS]

GRAFFITI, WENT FULL BLOWN, WHEN RAIL POLICE AND OTHER POLICE INSTITUTTIONS WERE TOLD TO "TRY TO UNDERSTAND THESE PEOPLE", INSTEAD OF BEATING THE #@$%& [CRAP] OUT OF THEM. SOMETIMES,I BELIEVE, THAT THE OLD WAY WAS MUCH BETTER. THE CULPRITS, ARE USULLY SOCIETY'S SCUM-BAGS, WHO,[IF WHEN YOUNGER] WERE GIVEN A GOOD OL' FASHIONED BUTT WARMING, WOULDN'T BE ACTING THE WAY THEY DO. BUT, WE MUST BE KIND TO THESE FOLKS, CAUSE WE MIGHT NEED THEIR VOTE!!!![:(!][;)][censored][2c]

[CSXrules4eva]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fievel

Thanks guys, for all the interesting info. I'm simply amazed that anyone
would spend so much time doing such things. I wi***hey would purchase
a drawing book, though. Or paint their bedroom walls. Since it costs so much
money to remove their "markings", I would think legislatures would really
crack down on the vandals, especially post 9/11.[sigh]

You would be very suprised to know of how many people spend on their art work, graffiti. I when I was in high school which wasn't too long ago I couldn't even beging to count how many people I knew of that did graffiti. It was and still is a popular item among students at Springfield Twh High School. I guess mainly the reason being is because, nothing else ever happens in boring Springfield Twh.

I'm going to have to think that graffiti really started to pick up in the 80s. It's still pretty popular now days. Here is my take on graffiti. I really don't like to see it on any kind of railroad equipment I don't care if it's an old pice of crap that's been siting on a siding for 90+ years. I don't want to see it. However, I do like to see it on walls (your own walls), drawings, paintings, and clothing. I personally have done some graffiti when I took Art III in hich school. I also have done some air brush work graffiti work on clothing before.