tragic accident

[dknelson]

The trains.com newswire for today has a story about a very young CSX conductor who has lost both legs in a terrible switching accident. A vivid reminder that railroading remains a physically demanding occupation with very real dangers.
I am sometimes bothered when I see railfans try to engage obviously busy working railroaders in some kind of shouted conversation -- hate to see anybody get distracted when doing a dangerous job. If railroaders want to talk (and many of them are GREAT story tellers) they often will stroll over and do so, but don't try to ask questions of a guy riding a moving freight car!
That was not how this accident happened by the way but my point is that working railroaders are engaged in hazardous duty, no matter how casual they can make it seem.
Years ago railroads tended to have lots of jobs, like crossing gate tenders and others, for the men who were too badly injured to go back into full service. Those days are mostly gone. You can only hope this particular young guy will recover and be able to lead a satisfying and productive life.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

Let us all put aside any indifferences and lift him up in prayer. Let us know if there is any way we can help him or his family. Where did this happen?

[BNSFNUT]

Being an railroader is a dangerous job.
Accidents like this bring this point out.
I hope this young man lives as the news relased said he was in critical condition.
Just remember that as railfans we are subject to some of the dangers faced by railroaders.
When track side be alert to your surroundings, listen for odd sound from passing equipment and don't TRESSPASS.
I saw an derailment happen, I was about 100ft away and aprox 30ft above the wreck on an highway
and some ballast landed near me and lots of dust and no I did not get any photos of it happening I was to busy geting out of the way.
I aways remember the advise my father passed on to me (his father was a railroader) if something go wrong run away from the it at 90 degrees angle if possible.

[wabash1]

Oh now you want to patronize us. well dont bother we as railroaders take care of ourselfs in house. and we dont need someone like you who bash us then want to come to aid us. the only thing you would do is screw things up. i agree with the others here is mike dont go away mad just go away.

[BNSFNUT]

You missed my point, I just wanted to point out the dangers to railfans.
A retired railroader
Jerry

[BRAKIE]

Jerry,I agee with you about the dangers that railfans face and sadly some doesn't know it.

All to often I have seen railfans stand to close to a passing train,many things can happen when a train passes.Even though I have not railroaded since the mid 80s,I still find myself watching the passing trains for any signs of impending danger from the train.

While it is sad that the young conductor lost both legs,he should live to see another day.It could have been far worst.My prayers and thoughts go out to him and his family.

It always saddens me to hear about the death or injury of a railroader,after all I was a railroader at one time and still feel a bond with them.

I recall my Grandmother recalling when she was a little girl the family would keep a new sheet in case the dreaded knock came while her father and brothers was at work on the railroads..She said all railroad families would have a sheet just in case that knock came and sadly it came all to often in those days to many families.

[cabforward]

it was a cheap shot at mr. mike.. yes, he upset railfans because of his comments over crossing safety, but this a new circumstance. he expressed the same feelings anyone would have over this horrific incident.. i did not care for his views on crossing safety, but that is over, i hope. i was taught to hate the sin, forgive the sinner.. i say get off his back and allow him to comment about anything he fancies.. we still live under the bill of rights, right? let him speak.. there are railroaders who have written stupid letters to this forum and there are non-r.r. writers who have expressed very intelligent views..

mr. mike, if it is possible for all of us to let go of the past and start the new year in a better frame of mind, i want to welcome you to the forum and invite you to speak your mind on r.r. issues.

we all have the right to do this.. this is not "our " property, it belongs to the magazine.. anyone can choose to reply or not to reply to another's post, but the rules state, no PERSONAL attacks.. if someone wishes to object to another's continued comments here, they should write to trains directly and work it out with them.. noone who writes to this forum can assume the position(s) of judge and jury.. if you have a problem, talk to the landlord.. we merely use this space, we cannot claim it for our own..

[wabash1]

It was not a cheap shot at Mr. mike it was a direct hit. If you say that we are allowed our opinion that was mine. In other words I myself did not say anything to larry or the other poster but it was my opinion to mike. Now i will say that no matter who you are or where you work it is nice to have someone say thanks for a great job or to say i am sorry about what happen. But like i said as far as mike goes we take care of our own in house and dont need guys like him to mess things up. (He wouldnt get the chance anyways) i am not apologizing for my statement just trying to make it more clear.

[cabforward]

it is obvious you cant tell the difference between disagreeing with someone and just being disagreeable..

if you dont know how to express your self without belittling others, you've been on the road too long..
if you enjoy cheap shots at others' expense, go into politics..

new as i am to this forum, i understand this space is about r.r. issues, not who posts them.. you seem more concerned about drawing blood and shaming one who would offer a comment which did not have your personal stamp of approval.. here's a headline: this ain't your forum.. lots of people read this column, some add to it; none of 'em want to read the personal prejudice garbage you want to slip in as 'free speech'..

i dont care what you call it, it's still a personal attack; your comments have zero to do with r.rs. ..it's about reaming someone who ticked you off, period! that's against the forum policy, go read it!

your handle is accurate- waBASH.. all the time bashing others..

[wabash1]

First off When i state my point of view i dont beat around the bush or sugar coat it. unlike your statement of my comments have zero to do with railroading, i would say exactly what it is that is offensive. ( or what i take as a differant meaning than was intended). As far as saying that it is not my forum I knew that 5 years ago when i got on this site. there are things i wont add to certain things couse i chose not to. others its my point of view. ( which is what i thought this site was about) and as far as personal prejudice that is a big word that you dont know the meaning of. couse i can tell you now you fall in the same boat. as does eveyone in the world does. prejudice means to pre-judge.

as far as taking personal attacks at people only when they do it to me such as you have done here. so if you going to tell me to reread the forum police maybe you should practice what you preach. and to think i made this statement with out bashing you.

[dknelson]

Um .... guys ..... speaking as the originator of the thread of this post, this is NOT exactly the direction I expected any followup commentary to take. I regret bring up the subject if this is what it is going to generate
Dave Nelson

[edblysard]

Hi Dave,
You have a valid point about distracting railroaders. But, for the most part, we dont mind talking to railfans, as long as dont have to do that at the same time as were working. Those who have been at this a while can make it seem so easy, for some its second nature. Talking your engineer back to a joint, (coupleing up cars) can seem so easy, but... My engineer told me he no longer listens to what I say, but pays more attention to how I say it, my tone of voice and such. We have used the same patter so long he knows what to expect, and how much futher he has to go from how I sound, not so much whats said. So if a fan it talking to me while I am making a joint, I will ignrore them until we are done, and then explain to them that, although I would be happy to talk train stuff with them, right now is not the time... As for close calls near the track, well I am a yard switchman presently, and I stand next to cars, pulling pins all day long. If your within twenty feet of a track, your too close. A lot of stuff can go wrong, and if your not trained to expect it, you will be hurt badly. Lose metal banding from pipe and steel loads is just like a six foot razor blade, and very hard to see as its thin, but if you know what to listen for, you hear it coming, and stop the movement, or get out of the way. The springs in a railcars trucks come lose and come out, often. Just look at any railroad yard, you see them lieing aroung everywhere. These things are under several tons of compression, and when they come out of the truck, if you happen to be in the way, your going to the hospital. So if you want to come watch us work, fine, do just that, watch, dont participate. When we are riding aroung on the end of a cut of cars, it may look like we are just working on our suntans, but in reality, we really busy, listening for draging equipment, chains and metal banding make a noise you learn to respect real quick, we are also listening for wheels on the ground, broken rail, (it pings, and you often hear it before you see it) and the raido transmissions from others. We also are watching out for close clearence, debris on the track, well, you get the picture. Now I dont wi***o make it sound like we dont want you fans to enjoy watching trains, but we have a lot to watch out for, dont make yourself into one more thing we have to keep an eye on. If you hang around railroaders long enough, your going to meet one whos missing a finger or two, maby even some toes. He let his attention wander for a second or two, and got bit. We dont want you to have the same problem. And having a slightly arrogant and smart aleck attitude is almost a genitic trait with us, yes, we do think we are better that everyone else, look at what we get to do for a living! And as to mike p, well, as far as I am concerned, he has the right to say anything he wants, wether I agree with him or not is immaterial. What he dosnt have is the right to accuse me, and other, of not caring. The man dosn't even know me, we've never met, and if hes lucky, we never will. While I agree the bill of rights is one of the most important ruling laws of our country, I also agree that the right to excerise my right to not listen to him is just a appropriate. Every time one of us answers his post or replys to a message of his, we end up arugeing, with him or with ourselves, often about something small and insignificent, which may be just what he wants, to stir stuff up, with himself at the center of it all. My fifteen year old daughter is really good at that, if she cant get attention from her succeses, she gets it from her screw ups, and loves the attention she gets. It obvious he dosnt railroad, and has a limited knowledge of what we do, and how its done. Its just as obvious he dosnt intend to learn, and feels that having been on a jury qualifies him to pass judgement on us, when it fact, all it did was allow him to judge that one case. He failed to grasp the concept that every single case is diffrent. I have spent far more time in court than he, and I knew right from the start the the judicial system isnt about justice, its about the assignment of blame, and the assesment of punishment. So, while I defend his right to speak on issues hes not qualified to discuss, I also defend my right to ingnore him. I would suggest we all adopt the attitude that he has the right to make uninformed biased statements, and we have the right not to listen or respond to him.
Yous guys stay frosty...
Ed

[wabash1]

Dave i am sorry it took this direction also you had a very good post and i only commented on mikes part of it. i did post also that it was nice that people are still concerned of what happens to others. ( maybe not in those words but that was the meaning). in that everyone likes to be told when they do a good job or a thank you.

Ed you did bring up good points as i do listen to the tone of voice as much as i do what the conductor is saying. you can tell if your going to fast for the conductor or if he found a switch or derail he didnt notice before not being lined correctly. In short i agree with everything you said but i will ad 1 thing, i am not sure if you are falling for the false security of being on the engine, going down the tracks standing on the stairs next to a track with standing cars. i was told by a old head conductor when i was being trained not to do that to stand in the middle of the engine. if the engine would derail that direction you be crushed or killed. it made sense and a few days later there was a accedent involving just that. sense then i will tell a trainee that its safer to the center of the engine while moving than on the steps. just something to think about. have a great day.

[cabforward]

you are wrapping yourself in the flag and calling it patriotism.. remember what this topic started out for? it was offering condolences to someone who lost their legs, jerk ( is that what the "j" stands for? ) you turned it into to a mud-slinging with your pathetic comments because you didn't like one of the contributors, who made NO MENTION of the previous topic which started the fracas.. how sick is that? talk about free speech! why cant you let someone else speak besides yourself!?? why cant you allow someone to have the floor and not chime in with a slug about "we take care of our own".. what the heck does that mean?? "shut up, we accept comments from railroaders only?" if this is a place where people should able to speak, why are you so bad about others speaking? you have no respect for anyone different from yourself.. free speech doesn't mean saying anything about anybody anytime.. it means, and try to follow this, its really important, RESPECTFULLY stating your views and ALLOWING others to state theirs, minus the comeback "we dont need you" blah-blah.. you dropped your vinegar on mr. mike, not because what he said about the railroader who lost his legs, but because you recognized his name at the bottom of his post, and realized he posted the comments about r.r. crossings.. had he signed his name, "casey jones", you'd be cheering him all the way home, and bragging that you knew him when he hired on.. this time, you blew it.. 'j', you're the one "deadhead" in this topic.. notice anybody else griping about mr. mike's comments besides you? take some time off, dive into a freezing lake and chill!

[edblysard]

Train Dude,
Did you listen to what you just said? You just showered down on wabash for not beliving mike expressed sympathy, and saying so. Then you you called him a jerk (wabash) for name calling, and said, in essence, it wasnt right for waba***o want to censor mikes words and expressions, or call mike names. Didnt you do just that to wabash?. And you expressed outrage at wabash for not agreeing with you that mike has a chance to speak, quoated the concept of free speech and thought, and followed that up with a statement that seems to say either agree with my point of view on free speech, or shut up. HUH? As to the comment about taking care of our own, we are a very closed culture, you can bet that the day after the accident mentioned, the guys and gals in the poor fellows local passed the hat, and went to the hospital to donate blood. Someone from the local went there and sat with his wife, and someone from the local babysat his kids. Amongst ourselve, we often call each other names, and say thing to each other that would start a bar fight in a room full of priests anywhere else but at a railroad. Our job and way of life are so much diffrent from any other, that we become a family unto ourselves. I can call wabash a jerk, because I am a railroader, and if we worked together, he would have call me somthing worse, I promise you. And then we both would laugh our butts off at each other. But we do take care of our own, we always have. Notice any memorials to railroaders on the mall in washington? Theres one for cops, firefighters, and all branches of the military, but none for us. Know why, we didnt ask for one, we take care of ourselves.
Your post calling wabash a jerk, deadhead, and suggesting he drive into a lake and chill, is as lowbrow, rude and mean as the post you took offense to in the first place. You've lowered yourself to the verbal level of person your chastiseing. Kinda like the kettle calling the pot black, isnt it? If mike has the right to say and speak as he wishes, dosnt that right extend to wabash? Who gets to decide?. Me?, you? mike? wabash? And wabash and I have disagreed on a few points in the past, but on thing we both agree upon is that each has the right to say whay they wish, and we all have the right to disagree with the other. Now dont misunderstand, I am not taking sides, I am just pointing out that it sure seems like you just di to wabash exactly what you were griping about him doing to mike.
Ed

[Anonymous]

My only thought now, turning from sympathy at the first post, is to wonder if this little pissing contest you girls are having has given the guy who lost his legs any more hope and drive to get well and keep trudging forward. If he doesn't make it, perhaps you all shouldn't go to the funeral. After all the mudslinging, I can certainly see how you would take the FUN out of it.

[edblysard]

Sorry I got off track too, but just to let you know, my local sent a donation to his local union to help him out. And I cant see the fun in having lost both legs. Or were you referring to railroading? Your post didnt make it clear which you were talking about, pissing contest, funerals, or railroading. By the way, exactly who am I in a pissing contest with? And calling me a girl, wow, now thats really tough...Oh, and what exactly did you do to help this guy out?
As for hope and drive, well, unless hes been working for a long time, his rr retirement benifits wont last long, and living on ssdi might pay for his meds, maby. But if he had the guts to stick it out at the railroad, I bet he has what it takes to find something worth living for. And I bet you the guys he works with will make sure his wife and kids get taken care of. Tell you what, I hope he makes it, but, in the sad event he dosent, you go to his funeral, and say mikes railroad mans prayer over his grave for the rest of us.
Ed

[wabash1]

Ed chill man . seveal years ago i made a statement that made people mad. I dont know what the thing was about any more but they have been doing this to me for a long time. i try to give short but direct info on questions. i use to do like you and spell it out. but i dont do that anymore. but you are right we spend as much and in cases of class 1 roads more time with the people we work with than our families. we eat with each others families we know more about each others wifes and kids. feel the pain if someones kids get hurt, feel the pain of another employee when he is hurt. you may not like working with them but you feel it just the same. there is not another industry in the world like this. and to answer that it was mike who signed it yes that is why i said what i said if it been casey jones no i wouldnt have said anything. The railroad is differant than anyplace i ever worked. I felt the pain of the guy who had his legs cut off. i Know a guy 33years on the railroad had his legs cut off. Ed it is my opinion that its not what we do there is no glamor in it the hours are hard . but the type of emviroment we are in. Where a man will get off work after 12hrs go to your house feed the animals cut your lawn go home and get 2-3 hrs rest and go back to work couse you are hurt and cant do it. with out being ask. where else in this country do fellow employees do that?

[Anonymous]

Touche'. I have done all that I can do, offer a prayer for him. I'm not in a local. I'm an engineer of the mechanical type not the train type. Although not a railroad man, I come from the stock and was fortunate enough to have worked for a company that builds the cars, Stub seals, King pin plates etc. Maybe it wasn't my place to say anything, but it just seemed like a lot of unproductive bickering esp. during a tradgedy. Im just here to learn about trains full and model. I have just reached a point of being able to get into it as I have wanted to for the last 20 years and it just seemed as thought the first posting I read led in the direction I would have expected elsewhere. Ok, thats all from me. I just want to learn all I can. Hope I can count on you all, for some of that as I go along. Who knows, maybe I can even offer a little myself.
Bud

[edblysard]

Wabash, because of the type of work we do most, flat yard switching, we have a rule that prohibits riding in the stairwell. But oddly, we have to hang on the side of cars as we shove. I guess the thought is that the latter is unavoidable, the first can be prevented. We had a member lines light motor fail to line the roundhouse switch back last year, one of our crews pulled up, fouled the switch, and got cornered as the light motor backed up coming back out of the house. Our foreman had just stepped off the stairs, saw the other motor out of the corner of his eye, and stepped back just in time to stay alive. Yes, I know they broke a rule fouling the switch, so did the other motor, they assumed no one was behind them, they left a switching lead switch lined against the lead, a no no here, and they had no one on the point. But if the foreman had be standing in the steps, like a lot of the younger kids do, he would have been crushed. Trust me, this kids gets right center of the motor now, and has a set of ball bearings in his neck..
Be cool, Ed

[edblysard]

Hey, Bud, Sorry, verbal swordplay, especically the sarcastic kind isnt called for. Not an excuse, but its been one of thoses weeks.
Do you have a layout yet? Been designing mine for about ten years, as soon as one of the kids gets outta here...built a lot of cars and motors & buildings though, each one gets better as I learn newer techniques. My wife says I take my hobby too seriously, says the only reason I went railroading was to play with big trains. Of course I deny it, but shes right. Three more years and the oldest is gone, I already got dibs on her room.
Again, I shouldnt have jumped on you, the reason for this post was to inform people of his loss, not give reason to grip. Say a prayer for him again, I think I needs to bend the knee myself.
Be cool,
Ed

[dknelson]

Along the lines of these posts ...some years ago I was lucky enough to catch a Milwaukee Road train at a crossing while walking in downtown Milwaukee. I rested my hand on the crossing gate that went over the sidewalk. An older guy also standing there walked over and said something like "you railfans stand a lot closer to the rails than we railroaders do. Let's stand back here." He talked about metal banding hanging loose as the biggest thing he was concerned about. He also said something I had not heard before - that he hated to see people put coins on the track not because it could possibly harm the equipment but because if a wheel hit it JUST right (or "wrong") it could make the coin squirt out sideways at high speed. Could be lethal.


Also on the subject of safety, it is interesting to watch an "old head" walk across the tracks -- they have an utterly distinctive way of walking over the rails, and so many of them do it the same way I have to conclude it is standard training.
Dave Nelson

[wabash1]

yes the putting things on the rail. coins may not come out in a lethal. but could definatly couse harm. rocks could be just as worse. i myself dont have a problem with a child under adult supper vision doing this. just as long as they stay away from the money when its being done. i hate to read about a big ole train throwing a penny at a child and lodging in there forehead.

[Anonymous]

When I started 13 years ago as a brakeman there was a conductor, and head brakeman on the job allways telling you what was right and wrong. Now, a new hire can become a qualifide conductor in a couple of months and put on a job switching the mill yard alone. Basic railroad saftey practices are never instiled and hamered in because there is nobody around to do it. They are only focused on getting the work done and safty comes second, if at all. Supervisers turn a blind eye to it unless something hapens.
One example : I get a real uneasy feeling when standing between the rails. So much so that I avoid it at all cost. Yet I see these young conductors (not all but a few) drop a car in a hill and stand 10' away with their back to it, right between the rails studying the lists with only the air holding the car. I tell them every time I see this sort of thing but some just don't want to hear it. Some other engineers have given up telling them. Now they have a few years under their belts they think since nothing happened yet they MUST be doing it right. I still hound them. If and when something happens, I'd rather be the pain in the *ss that tried to help than the one who chose to ignore it. If you understand the risk and do things differantly it is your choice, your fault. If you were never properly trained to understand these risks then it is the railroads fault. Slofr8.