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QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal There. Happy now?
QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal There. Happy now? Yes I am! In fact I laughed right out loud! I was sort of expecting maybe a Heydays of the Walla Walla Valley Line vs. perhaps a nowadays of the lines in your part of the country-which I'm guessing is Eastern Washington? And what the heck is a Walla anyway? In my part of the world, Walla Walla is used as a desription of somewhere far,far away-like Timbucktu. Anyway, thanks for the response.[:D]
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal There. Happy now? Yes I am! In fact I laughed right out loud! I was sort of expecting maybe a Heydays of the Walla Walla Valley Line vs. perhaps a nowadays of the lines in your part of the country-which I'm guessing is Eastern Washington? And what the heck is a Walla anyway? In my part of the world, Walla Walla is used as a desription of somewhere far,far away-like Timbucktu. Anyway, thanks for the response.[:D] The truth is, my area is still in limbo. It seems the rail community can't make up it's collective mind as to whether continue or expand service, or pull out altogether. We had a very successful short haul log train operation (co-owned by two Class I's)between the forests of North Central Idaho and the mill in Lewiston, but it turned out the profits from the operation were not going back into keeping the line in shape, but instead going to upgrade other lines in other parts of the country, so when the railroads came to the next round of rate negotiation, they proposed a rate to make up for the cost of returning the line to decent running shape, basically making the one shipper pay for the diversion of profits, so the shipper said %*#$% you RR people, tore out their own siding, and now ship all logs by truck. The line is still in place, washed out here and there but otherwise ready for resumption, with 132 lb rail in place and log racks sitting idle, but the new owner is having a hard time convincing the shipper to return to shipping by rail, even with the fuel surcharges being foisted by the main trucking outfit. We had the same situation with short haul grain shuttles using older but still servicable 70 ton hoppers, running between a major grain growing area and the local barge port. The shuttle was unbeatable vs trucks in delivering grain to the port, but again the profits from the operation were shifted elsewhere out of the area, and the defered maintenance caused the RR's to try and jack the shippers to pay for upkeep. The RR's also had a hard time swallowing the fact that they made more money shuttling grain shorthaul in cooperation with the enemy aka barge lines, than they did in long hauling grain in competition with the barge lines (the shorthaul shuttles only competed with truck rates, so the rates could be higher per ton mile, while the longer haul rates were bare bones)The shippers en masse switched to trucks when the new rail rates ended up being higher than the truck rates, and now the new owner is trying hard to convince the shippers to return to shipping by rail. Then of course we had good ole BN, who in the 1970's spent money to upgrade it's line from the Palouse grain growing region to the new barge ports in anticipation of running grain shuttles, then a change of management caused them to embargo the line for two decades (ostensibly so they could long haul grain to the ocean themselves, but of course they then decided even that wasn't worth the effort), before finally tearing it up a few years ago, forever losing the chance to run higher rate short haul shuttles. So of course now all grain to the ports comes by trucks, and the railroads can only manage a 30% market share in hauling grain themselves to the ocean ports, even with subsidized state owned hoppers. Question: Which makes more money - short haul shuttles at $0.06 per ton mile, or medium haul shuttles at $0.02 per ton mile? Quothe the "rail professionals" - "Why, our medium to long haul shuttles are the most efficient way to haul grain, they're unit trains for crying out loud, and eveyone knows that 110 car unit trains in long haul service make more money than 50 car shuttles in short haul service", but of course if they calculated the annual ton miles they'd find that short haul shuttles running one third of the ton miles makes just as much revenue, and with truckers fuel prices rising they could have charged 7 cents a ton mile and actually pulled in more annual revenue with the shorthaul shuttles, but hey, they're rail professionals, and you can't argue with rail professionals.
QUOTE: Originally posted by zapp Sorry what I have two examples: Heydays : Western Tennessee, Jackson to be specific, We used to have the old GM&O yard downtown,then it became ICG they ran alot of trains through there. Then NS bought it and Now there are none. The old T&P line out of Ft Worth west. The T&P ran alot of trains before MP ran them dry. After the UP/MP merger (late 80's early 90's) it was down to one through freight MFWEP and the local. Now: It's as busy as it once was with T&P with intermodal,autoracks,and manifests. UP has rerailed,retied,and resignaled most of the RR out here. Where track speeds were at 30 MPH now they are at 70!
QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal There. Happy now? Yes I am! In fact I laughed right out loud! I was sort of expecting maybe a Heydays of the Walla Walla Valley Line vs. perhaps a nowadays of the lines in your part of the country-which I'm guessing is Eastern Washington? And what the heck is a Walla anyway? In my part of the world, Walla Walla is used as a desription of somewhere far,far away-like Timbucktu. Anyway, thanks for the response.[:D] The truth is, my area is still in limbo. It seems the rail community can't make up it's collective mind as to whether continue or expand service, or pull out altogether. We had a very successful short haul log train operation (co-owned by two Class I's)between the forests of North Central Idaho and the mill in Lewiston, but it turned out the profits from the operation were not going back into keeping the line in shape, but instead going to upgrade other lines in other parts of the country, so when the railroads came to the next round of rate negotiation, they proposed a rate to make up for the cost of returning the line to decent running shape, basically making the one shipper pay for the diversion of profits, so the shipper said %*#$% you RR people, tore out their own siding, and now ship all logs by truck. The line is still in place, washed out here and there but otherwise ready for resumption, with 132 lb rail in place and log racks sitting idle, but the new owner is having a hard time convincing the shipper to return to shipping by rail, even with the fuel surcharges being foisted by the main trucking outfit. We had the same situation with short haul grain shuttles using older but still servicable 70 ton hoppers, running between a major grain growing area and the local barge port. The shuttle was unbeatable vs trucks in delivering grain to the port, but again the profits from the operation were shifted elsewhere out of the area, and the defered maintenance caused the RR's to try and jack the shippers to pay for upkeep. The RR's also had a hard time swallowing the fact that they made more money shuttling grain shorthaul in cooperation with the enemy aka barge lines, than they did in long hauling grain in competition with the barge lines (the shorthaul shuttles only competed with truck rates, so the rates could be higher per ton mile, while the longer haul rates were bare bones)The shippers en masse switched to trucks when the new rail rates ended up being higher than the truck rates, and now the new owner is trying hard to convince the shippers to return to shipping by rail. Then of course we had good ole BN, who in the 1970's spent money to upgrade it's line from the Palouse grain growing region to the new barge ports in anticipation of running grain shuttles, then a change of management caused them to embargo the line for two decades (ostensibly so they could long haul grain to the ocean themselves, but of course they then decided even that wasn't worth the effort), before finally tearing it up a few years ago, forever losing the chance to run higher rate short haul shuttles. So of course now all grain to the ports comes by trucks, and the railroads can only manage a 30% market share in hauling grain themselves to the ocean ports, even with subsidized state owned hoppers. Question: Which makes more money - short haul shuttles at $0.06 per ton mile, or medium haul shuttles at $0.02 per ton mile? Quothe the "rail professionals" - "Why, our medium to long haul shuttles are the most efficient way to haul grain, they're unit trains for crying out loud, and eveyone knows that 110 car unit trains in long haul service make more money than 50 car shuttles in short haul service", but of course if they calculated the annual ton miles they'd find that short haul shuttles running one third of the ton miles makes just as much revenue, and with truckers fuel prices rising they could have charged 7 cents a ton mile and actually pulled in more annual revenue with the shorthaul shuttles, but hey, they're rail professionals, and you can't argue with rail professionals. Way to go Dave![:D]. I'll presume that the 2 Class 1's you mention are BNSF & UP? I missed the part about heydays, but hey! it's a start, and a good one at that! Oh, and what is a Walla?[:o)] Thanks![8D]
QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73 QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal There. Happy now? Yes I am! In fact I laughed right out loud! I was sort of expecting maybe a Heydays of the Walla Walla Valley Line vs. perhaps a nowadays of the lines in your part of the country-which I'm guessing is Eastern Washington? And what the heck is a Walla anyway? In my part of the world, Walla Walla is used as a desription of somewhere far,far away-like Timbucktu. Anyway, thanks for the response.[:D] The truth is, my area is still in limbo. It seems the rail community can't make up it's collective mind as to whether continue or expand service, or pull out altogether. We had a very successful short haul log train operation (co-owned by two Class I's)between the forests of North Central Idaho and the mill in Lewiston, but it turned out the profits from the operation were not going back into keeping the line in shape, but instead going to upgrade other lines in other parts of the country, so when the railroads came to the next round of rate negotiation, they proposed a rate to make up for the cost of returning the line to decent running shape, basically making the one shipper pay for the diversion of profits, so the shipper said %*#$% you RR people, tore out their own siding, and now ship all logs by truck. The line is still in place, washed out here and there but otherwise ready for resumption, with 132 lb rail in place and log racks sitting idle, but the new owner is having a hard time convincing the shipper to return to shipping by rail, even with the fuel surcharges being foisted by the main trucking outfit. We had the same situation with short haul grain shuttles using older but still servicable 70 ton hoppers, running between a major grain growing area and the local barge port. The shuttle was unbeatable vs trucks in delivering grain to the port, but again the profits from the operation were shifted elsewhere out of the area, and the defered maintenance caused the RR's to try and jack the shippers to pay for upkeep. The RR's also had a hard time swallowing the fact that they made more money shuttling grain shorthaul in cooperation with the enemy aka barge lines, than they did in long hauling grain in competition with the barge lines (the shorthaul shuttles only competed with truck rates, so the rates could be higher per ton mile, while the longer haul rates were bare bones)The shippers en masse switched to trucks when the new rail rates ended up being higher than the truck rates, and now the new owner is trying hard to convince the shippers to return to shipping by rail. Then of course we had good ole BN, who in the 1970's spent money to upgrade it's line from the Palouse grain growing region to the new barge ports in anticipation of running grain shuttles, then a change of management caused them to embargo the line for two decades (ostensibly so they could long haul grain to the ocean themselves, but of course they then decided even that wasn't worth the effort), before finally tearing it up a few years ago, forever losing the chance to run higher rate short haul shuttles. So of course now all grain to the ports comes by trucks, and the railroads can only manage a 30% market share in hauling grain themselves to the ocean ports, even with subsidized state owned hoppers. Question: Which makes more money - short haul shuttles at $0.06 per ton mile, or medium haul shuttles at $0.02 per ton mile? Quothe the "rail professionals" - "Why, our medium to long haul shuttles are the most efficient way to haul grain, they're unit trains for crying out loud, and eveyone knows that 110 car unit trains in long haul service make more money than 50 car shuttles in short haul service", but of course if they calculated the annual ton miles they'd find that short haul shuttles running one third of the ton miles makes just as much revenue, and with truckers fuel prices rising they could have charged 7 cents a ton mile and actually pulled in more annual revenue with the shorthaul shuttles, but hey, they're rail professionals, and you can't argue with rail professionals. Way to go Dave![:D]. I'll presume that the 2 Class 1's you mention are BNSF & UP? I missed the part about heydays, but hey! it's a start, and a good one at that! Oh, and what is a Walla?[:o)] Thanks![8D] If you want to know what a Walla is, ask here, info@wallawalla.org I believe Dave lives in Idaho www.wwvrailway.com/camas.htm www.camasprairierails.com
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