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New cross country perishable train

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Posted by chad thomas on Friday, August 5, 2005 2:02 PM
Ed, They have addressed this issue. Re-read the second paragraph:

The unit trains will feature 64-foot refrigerated box cars, each designed to move perishables — including apples, pears, onions and potatoes — equal to four truckloads. The cars are equipped with enhanced insulation, energy-efficient cooling systems and Global Positioning System monitoring to control temperature

Of course there is not much they can do if the refer goes out in the middle of nowhere, but at least they will know when it does.
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Posted by TrainFreak409 on Friday, August 5, 2005 2:22 PM
The creation of this train will certainly be interesting. I hope it does well, but if not, no skin off my nose.[:p]

Scott - Dispatcher, Norfolk Southern

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 5, 2005 3:20 PM
Why does the UP Asst VP talk about offering an alternative to over-the-road? Does the service provide better over-all service/price to the customers or not? Why offer it if it doesn't?
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Posted by edbenton on Friday, August 5, 2005 4:19 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Ed, They have addressed this issue. Re-read the second paragraph:

The unit trains will feature 64-foot refrigerated box cars, each designed to move perishables — including apples, pears, onions and potatoes — equal to four truckloads. The cars are equipped with enhanced insulation, energy-efficient cooling systems and Global Positioning System monitoring to control temperature

Of course there is not much they can do if the refer goes out in the middle of nowhere, but at least they will know when it does.

Yes they may be using a new unit with all of the state of the art technology in the cars, but the fact is that the tracks are a heck of a long way away from the nearest reefer unit dealer for service and so the RR is looking at a lot of service calls to get the repairs done and service calls are not cheap last time I had one it was 85 bucks an hour plus mileage for the mechanic to come out.
Always at war with those that think OTR trucking is EASY.
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Posted by chad thomas on Friday, August 5, 2005 4:25 PM
I don't dissagree with you Ed, I was just pointing out that they were addressing the issue. I guess they better get reliable refer units and keep up on the preventative maintainance.
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Posted by greyhounds on Friday, August 5, 2005 6:47 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by edbenton

Another probelm with hauling produce of any kind on a train is if that reefer unit on the car goes down there is no way of knowing about it till the next inspection point. 100 tons of pears is roughly 150-200 thousand in cost to the railroad. and pears are a hardy produce they ake alot of abuse. Cherries apricots and strawberries look at them wrong and they go bad. A trucked load of produce has an advantage if something does happen to the reefer unit a driver is going to know about it right away. I pulled reefer and when you are hauling produce and all of a sudden the unit stops during the middle of the night you are out of bed and seeing what ahappened to the unit.

So absically it is going to be have a unti that gets checked during a 1000 mile inspection or having someone in the cab keeping an eye on it 5 days plus or 4 days delevery. I say this new service will not last to long sooner or later the profit margin will be to low for even CSX to want to run it.


Ed,

The railroads can, and do, haul perishable freight successfuly and profitably. When I was with ICG marketing I got Chiquita bananas back on the rail. We also handled meat out of Sioux City. The best current examples are the Tropicana shipments of orange juice out of Florida.

And it gets easier as technology improves. The reefer units and temperatures can be monitored remotely. The railroads employ people who can repair malfunctioning units. If there's a problem just call the guy out and pay the overtime. They've projected a failure rate for the refrigeration systems and included the costs of repeairs and freight damange claims in their business plan.

This freight largely, but never entirely, left the railroads. It left because Federal economic regulaiton of freight rates on these commodities (ag products) applied to railroads but not to truckers. Rail rates were fixed. Truck rates moved with supply and demand. The railroads had to sell below market in times of peak seasonal demand. The truckers could raise their rates and put money in the bank. In times of slack demand the truckers undercut the rail rates and kept their equipment in operation. The rail cars sat idle.

Eventually, the railroads pretty much gave up. They lost the expertise needed to move these commodities - once you do that, it's hard to get back in the business.

I'm glad to see they're trying.

Ken
"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
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Posted by greyhounds on Friday, August 5, 2005 7:13 PM
QUOTE: From FM

but for some reason BNSF has an aversion to making money from bi-modal innovation. I know this from personal experience. Perhaps they were afraid that the RoadRailer operations might be too successful, causing a supply chain shift away from newly ordered boxcars and well cars. Hmmmm, it is interesting to note that a truly integrated transportation company would never behave thus, but unfortunately for the USA our rail system is closed access, and such irrational behaviour is the result. But I am open for other excuses besides tried and true monopolists theory.


This just doesn't make sense.

If the BNSF was "adverse" to making money using bi-modal equipment:

1) Why did they invest heavily in refrigerated RoadRailers and start the Ice Cold Express

2) Why do they operate a Tripple Crown RoadRailer train between Kansas City and Dallas/Ft. Worth

The fact is, they aren't. If they could make money running an all-Pullman streamliner between Chicago and Los Angeles, they'd do it. (Although the Government would probably get in the way there.) If they could have made money running the Swift trains, those trains would still operate.

They're in business to make money, however they legally can. They're not going to turn down profits. If a corporate honcho did that, he/she would be in big legal trouble. Corporations (including railroads) aren't run on whims. They don't get everything right, but they make reasoned decisons. Now sometimes their reasoning is wrong - but then our (you and me) reasoning is sometimes wrong.

Ken
"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 5, 2005 7:27 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds

QUOTE: From FM

but for some reason BNSF has an aversion to making money from bi-modal innovation. I know this from personal experience. Perhaps they were afraid that the RoadRailer operations might be too successful, causing a supply chain shift away from newly ordered boxcars and well cars. Hmmmm, it is interesting to note that a truly integrated transportation company would never behave thus, but unfortunately for the USA our rail system is closed access, and such irrational behaviour is the result. But I am open for other excuses besides tried and true monopolists theory.


This just doesn't make sense.

If the BNSF was "adverse" to making money using bi-modal equipment:

1) Why did they invest heavily in refrigerated RoadRailers and start the Ice Cold Express

2) Why do they operate a Tripple Crown RoadRailer train between Kansas City and Dallas/Ft. Worth

The fact is, they aren't. If they could make money running an all-Pullman streamliner between Chicago and Los Angeles, they'd do it. (Although the Government would probably get in the way there.) If they could have made money running the Swift trains, those trains would still operate.

They're in business to make money, however they legally can. They're not going to turn down profits. If a corporate honcho did that, he/she would be in big legal trouble. Corporations (including railroads) aren't run on whims. They don't get everything right, but they make reasoned decisons. Now sometimes their reasoning is wrong - but then our (you and me) reasoning is sometimes wrong.

Ken


Ken,

You're right, it doesn't make sense, but there it is as plain as day. I spoke with a Swift rep a while back about BNSF pulling the rug from the I-5 RoadRailer service, and his opinion was that both BNSF and Swift profited from the service, but for some reason that has never been explained BNSF management suddenly turned cold to bi-modal. Speaking of investment, not only did BNSF shortchange their own investment in the service, they also hurt Swift's investment in the project as well, and basically left Swift holding the bag. Perhaps that was BNSF's strategy all along - sucker the "enemy" into an ostensible partnership, then yank the rug out from under them after the check clears. At least that explanation is as good as any other. If I heard the rep correctly, Swift has vowed never again to waste time trying to work with the UP/BNSF duopoly on new concepts.

The impression I got is that Swift dearly wishes it could run it's own trains without having to deal with the railroads.
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Posted by ericsp on Friday, August 5, 2005 10:12 PM
Ed Benton, the reefers are inspected and the refrigeration units tested before each trip.

Greyhounds, are you sure the Tropicana train is the best example? I would think the Express Lane Service would be a better one.

Futuremodal, did you ever talk to BNSF to get their side of the story regarding Swift?

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 6, 2005 12:16 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp


Futuremodal, did you ever talk to BNSF to get their side of the story regarding Swift?


No. Do ya think they'd spill their guts to little ol' me?

What stands out is this - BNSF went into this arrangement beforehand with their numbers intact, and one can assume that they showed enough of a profit to jump into the action, else they wouldn't have ventured thus in the first place. I doubt they went into this with the thought of making it a loss leader for it's first few years, because there's just no end game for the tactic in that market. Either you're making money running bi-modal, or the customer goes back to the highways or TOFC/COFC (in this case Swift went back to the highways, although I expect some of that traffic must have gone onto TOFC/COFC consists).

All I have gotten from this episode is this:

1. Both Swift and BNSF invested in this operation.
2. Both Swift and BNSF ran their numbers, else one of the parties would have opted out beforehand.
3. BNSF got cold feet in a relatively short amount of time, certainly not enough time to analyze the project's growth potential.
4. Both BNSF and Swift ended up eating a loss on the initial investment because of BNSF's untimely pull out.
5. Since this is partnership was in the public eye, you can bet Swift and the rest of the trucking industry will think twice when approached by one of the railroads for another "partnership".

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 9:57 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal

QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal

Greyhounds,

The statement that "bi-modal technology has failed again and again" is a bit presumptuous, given that the technology is still being tried out on a basis of slothful attrition by the railroads. We know that the modal transfer times using bi-modal are exceptional, in some cases saving days over pallet transfer. Bi-modal reefer trailers have more capacity than reefer containers, so it even beats COFC.

Frankly, given what we see in the success of Triple Crown vs the other operations, it is apparent that only by the prime directive of a trucking firm will bi-modal get a fair chance at success. Conversely, if we leave it to the railroads, they will surely find a way to turn lemonade into lemons and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.


This is from an unpublished writing by me. It's evident that it was written a while ago.

"The BNSF just recently suspended operation of its “Ice Cold Express” RoadRailer
trains. The elimination of these trains, which operated between Los Angeles and Chicago, is disturbing for two reasons.

First, they were targeted on the California produce transportation market. This
market is huge, long haul, and predominately moves via motor freight. California produces about one half the fresh fruits and vegetables consumed in North America. This equates to around 500,000 refrigerated tractor-trailers leaving California each year.

Most of these trucks are on long haul runs to eastern population centers. These truckers don’t return to California empty, they maximize their revenue by getting “backhaul loads” from those eastern cities to California. That makes the total market, including backhauls, 1,000,000 long haul loads per year.

The railroads successfully handled this business for years, but were driven out in
large part by Federal rate regulation. For the DECADES since, the railroads have
generally conceded this long haul business to the truckers.

The now defunct Ice Cold Express was a strong attempt by the BNSF to get more
of this business back on the rails where it belongs. It’s sad to see such a false start in such a worthy, important effort.

Secondly, this is yet another setback for RoadRailer. For a while, it looked as if the
Ice Cold Express might have ben RoadRailer’s big break through. A major railroad had made a major investment in refrigerated RoadRailer equipment for the first time. Two intermodal marketing companies, Alliance Shippers and Clipper Exxpress, also joined the operation.

These companies also made substantial investments in the service by purchasing their own equipment to operate in the trains. The CN established a connecting RoadRailer Service to Toronto and Montreal. These cities are both major markets for California produce. CSX established its own connecting service to the US east coast. It looked as if RoadRailer might be finally on its way.

Then things began to fall apart. First, the CSX and CN connecting services at
Chicago were shut down. Now the Ice Cold Express no itself longer operates.

Just what the Hell went wrong? Why did the Ice Cold Express join the ranks of
other failed RoadRailer operations?"


This service wasn't marketed by the BNSF. It was marketed by Mark VII Transportation, an outfit owned by R.C. Mateny. R.C. had started National Piggyback Services. This was an intermodal marketing company with a strong presence in the perishable market.

When American President Lines needed to establish a domestic intermodal network to compliment their international stack train operations, they bought R.C. out and National Pig became APL Domestic and now Pacer Stack Train.

R.C. aparently got tired of playing golf every day and started Mark VII. BNSF went to him to market their Ice Cold Express RoadRailer service. And even he couldn't make it work.

The Ice Cold joined other failed RoadRailer ops on the CN, UP, CSX, etc. Even Swift Transportation, a very successful trucker couldn't make it work on the West Coast.

Tripple Crown has gone basically nowhere in 20 years. Yes, I know, they've got a relatively new run up to Minneapolis. Big Deal. They're basically where they were 20 years ago.

It ain't workin'. It could work in some places. But that Washington fruit, onions and potatoes will move just fine in refrigerated boxcars.

Ken


Nice article. Could be published if you include a few observations that were left out, such as the fact that it was BNSF that yanked all bi-modal service, not Swift or RC. If you remember correctly, when it came time to renegotiate the Swift RoadRailer agreement, BNSF suddenly jacked up the rate, so high that it then became cheaper for Swift to take these trailers over the road. We all know that both BNSF and Swift profited from the RoadRailer operation, but for some reason BNSF has an aversion to making money from bi-modal innovation. I know this from personal experience. Perhaps they were afraid that the RoadRailer operations might be too successful, causing a supply chain shift away from newly ordered boxcars and well cars. Hmmmm, it is interesting to note that a truly integrated transportation company would never behave thus, but unfortunately for the USA our rail system is closed access, and such irrational behaviour is the result. But I am open for other excuses besides tried and true monopolists theory.

Question: Is there anyone out there who thinks that box of cherries is going to get from the orchard to NYC just as fast as the over the road truckers, or at the same cost to the grower/marketer? Don't forget, there are plenty of storage facilities already in place, so why would the growers want to yank their investments there and commit to a centralized rail distribution center? They will still need truckers to take the fruit from one facility to the new facility, transload the pallets into the faciltiy, then reload the pallets onto the fridge cars, mosey along to NYC in 5 days, where the process will have to be reversed, then mosey on back to Washington State. By that time, the over the road truckers will have handled two cross country trips between existing facilities, probably with backhaul to boot, which totally negates rail's efficiency advantage since the truckers will have hauled just as much freight in that time period as the rail cars.

Anyone with any brains can see that this situation was made for bi-modal. The facilities are already in place, and all we need is two terminal sidings for the modal transfer. Under open access any number of 3PI's would jump at the chance if they had fee simple right of access to use the rails, and the net result is a more efficient expenditure of capital. Unfortunately, we all have to deal with the royal idiots of the current rail oligarchy, who even with monopolistic pricing still can't cover their ROI targets.


In response to the "cherry picker" comments, who is obviously in the trucking industry; let me see if I can give you a different perspective on the "womb to tomb" scenario. If the farmer in Washington State harvests his cherries and puts his 3 month window into his state-of-the-art coolers and then has his salesmen pound the phone for over the road truckers as in the past but most recently to no avail, those cherries just "hand around the coolers with no where to go for up to 7-10 days at times, depending on whether or not the reliable trucking industry feels like working their way up from Cal where the supply is better and less driving. Now 5 days go by and low and behold, here comes a 48 footer with an attitude!! He loads his truck with those beautiful bings, load locks himself in, and off to Boston he goes. He checks his unit and its 90 degrees outside but its a cool 36 degrees in his trailer. He goes down the road and has 5 days till his delivery. More chances than not the driver is getting 5-6 grand for the trip so on the second day he says what the f... and desides to go to his favorite truck-stop and cop some crystal meth!! Any trucker with any brains knows he can make the trip in 4 days so WHY NOT HAVE A LITTLE FUN! Couple of white-trash rest area "hoes" glass pipe and who needs to call in!!!! Meanwhile the cherries inside ain't feeling so good because the unit tripped and now the temperatures a rising faster than the blood pressure of our "California turn-around" driver. We all know the story from here. Driver misses delivery, brings unit back down to temp first, loses the temp recorder, retailer rejects load, and rather than transload through a temp controlled rail center and inspect and deliver cherries through a destination point on the eastern seaboard for "just in time delivery" you are telling me that we should rely on the present "highly efficient" trucking inddustry that takes up 90 percent of the day, looking for these past heroes of the highway. Good for the railroad for showing some steel!!! I'd rather be on a GPS refrig train the first day out of a cooler than a truck attitude the 7th day out of the same cooler, without the glass pipe!!!!
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:28 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Mallman64

In response to the "cherry picker" comments, who is obviously in the trucking industry; let me see if I can give you a different perspective on the "womb to tomb" scenario. If the farmer in Washington State harvests his cherries and puts his 3 month window into his state-of-the-art coolers and then has his salesmen pound the phone for over the road truckers as in the past but most recently to no avail, those cherries just "hand around the coolers with no where to go for up to 7-10 days at times, depending on whether or not the reliable trucking industry feels like working their way up from Cal where the supply is better and less driving. Now 5 days go by and low and behold, here comes a 48 footer with an attitude!! He loads his truck with those beautiful bings, load locks himself in, and off to Boston he goes. He checks his unit and its 90 degrees outside but its a cool 36 degrees in his trailer. He goes down the road and has 5 days till his delivery. More chances than not the driver is getting 5-6 grand for the trip so on the second day he says what the f... and desides to go to his favorite truck-stop and cop some crystal meth!! Any trucker with any brains knows he can make the trip in 4 days so WHY NOT HAVE A LITTLE FUN! Couple of white-trash rest area "hoes" glass pipe and who needs to call in!!!! Meanwhile the cherries inside ain't feeling so good because the unit tripped and now the temperatures a rising faster than the blood pressure of our "California turn-around" driver. We all know the story from here. Driver misses delivery, brings unit back down to temp first, loses the temp recorder, retailer rejects load, and rather than transload through a temp controlled rail center and inspect and deliver cherries through a destination point on the eastern seaboard for "just in time delivery" you are telling me that we should rely on the present "highly efficient" trucking inddustry that takes up 90 percent of the day, looking for these past heroes of the highway. Good for the railroad for showing some steel!!! I'd rather be on a GPS refrig train the first day out of a cooler than a truck attitude the 7th day out of the same cooler, without the glass pipe!!!!


All I can say is [wow], do you truly believe even 10% of truckers would be acting this way? I don't. I am not pro-truck, but please don't insult me with that. After about the 10th load lost, he wouldn't have enough money to pay his bank note, or if employed OTR driver, I would bet he would be working or hanging at Labor Ready ® for a job.

Nice story but trucks are going strong, they do ahve a purpose. Reading the Trains article back last year about SP and the lettuce runs, SP also was to blame, union attitudes about quit time, wouldn't load trailers on the ramp, reducing crews in the area, pulling infastructure, they also are to blame for growers being a little chilled to the whole RR idea. At least that was my take.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 10:40 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp

Who said anything about dedicated train sets? I saw nothing about it in UP's press release. If these are the ARMN 110000 series cars, then once the order is filled UP will 1500 of these cars. If it takes 124 hours to get to the destination and 10 days to return, be inspected, cleaned, and repaired (if necessary), UP will need 825 of these cars, not including spares, for a daily train. I wonder if UPFE and other ARMN reefers will eventually get in these trains.

By the way I saw ARMN 111064 today, so ARMN 111111 should be coming out soon, or maybe it has been built already.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 11:28 AM
hi guys,
Stumbled upon your thread here regarding Railex. I am Bill Collins, I work for Railex, and I will be running the Rotterdam NY facility. I am also an avid model (and obviuosly real) train fan. I'm glad to see you like our idea! Basically we are a 55 car unit train for produce of all kinds form the NW. We are starting with one train every 10 days and moving to 2 shortly after. (Prob 1st quarter 2007). The most amazing thing about the program is that our faciltiies will be inside and be able to offload/load 14-19 64ft super reefer cars at once. The train hold 200 truckloads as you know and will save an est 86000 gal of fuel per trip. It is a cutting edge design, concept and facility. Our Walula WA facility is actually situtated on a 17,550 ft loop track for faster loading. Look for hybrid locos after jan 2007, for switching duties at both plants. We are excited to get started, both buildings are nearing completion and first train is set to roll soon!
Bill
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Posted by chad thomas on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 11:40 AM
Welcome to the forum Bill. Be sure to keep us posted. We'll look forward to hearing about how successfull this train is.[;)]
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Posted by SALfan on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 11:43 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by bcrailex

hi guys,
Stumbled upon your thread here regarding Railex. I am Bill Collins, I work for Railex, and I will be running the Rotterdam NY facility. I am also an avid model (and obviuosly real) train fan. I'm glad to see you like our idea! Basically we are a 55 car unit train for produce of all kinds form the NW. We are starting with one train every 10 days and moving to 2 shortly after. (Prob 1st quarter 2007). The most amazing thing about the program is that our faciltiies will be inside and be able to offload/load 14-19 64ft super reefer cars at once. The train hold 200 truckloads as you know and will save an est 86000 gal of fuel per trip. It is a cutting edge design, concept and facility. Our Walula WA facility is actually situtated on a 17,550 ft loop track for faster loading. Look for hybrid locos after jan 2007, for switching duties at both plants. We are excited to get started, both buildings are nearing completion and first train is set to roll soon!
Bill


Bill Collins: Bravo for you and Railex, and I wish you all the best. It's good to see a company partnering with the RR's in a way that makes sense in today's world, playing to the strengths of both modes.

greyhounds: Please, don't try to confuse futuremodal with the facts. It's like trying to teach a pig to sing - wastes your time and annoys the pig. Using a local to pick up individual loads of fruit from individual packinghouses? Couldn't find a less efficient use of railroad resources if you tried. His mind is made up, and none of us will be able to change it.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 11:43 AM
Will do.
Can answer any questions you guys may have in meantime.
our website www.railexusa.com does a good job as well with the concept.
Bill
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Posted by caldreamer on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 12:04 PM
For the last couple of years the UP has been running the "Salad Bowl Express" from the Salins and San Juaquin valleys in Caliornia to New York. UP has taken the buisiness away from the trucks with delivery guaranteed jin 94 hours and at competiver pricing. Trains had a great article on it. I will dig it out and post the date of the issue.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 12:31 PM
Um.....Salad Bowl Express no longer really exists. 94 was actually taking around 168 which is really no better than standard conventional. Don't forget, this is a UNIT train so no humping, switching etc., and 120 hrs builds in a little extra time. UP is considering just a crew change in Chicago so UP motive power may come all the way to S. Schenectady. Inspections and light repairs will be handled by our motive pwr group and we will deliver an empty, brake tested train ready to go back to WA within 24hrs of arrival. Trucking would still be integral obviously on both ends of the system. It is not our intention to put trucking out, but simply allow the driver to go home to his own house every night (or 2) for dinner. I've been in the produce wholesaling biz for 22 yrs, 5 days is MORE than competitive, and our finished delivered product will be cheaper. Currently, only way from WA in 5 days is team truck (2 drivers) at about 9G's these days. That's a lot of freight savings to be passed on.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 12:32 PM
Article in Albany NY paper....I guess we are the new "Salad Express"....hehehehe..

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,1172866,nodelay=1
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 12:35 PM
....And by the way, you've happened upon our "Phase 3" plan; California service!!
prob mid-late 2007....
Have a good day guys,
Bill
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Posted by rrandb on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 5:34 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by bcrailex

....And by the way, you've happened upon our "Phase 3" plan; California service!!
prob mid-late 2007....
Have a good day guys,
Bill

WOW Talk about "from the horses mouth". We just can not do better than that. Welcome Aboard. I hope I speak for most of our members when I say "Glad to meet Ya." As always ENJOY
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Posted by rrandb on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 6:13 PM
QUOTE: [i]

Greyhounds,


Question: Is there anyone out there who thinks that box of cherries is going to get from the orchard to NYC just as fast as the over the road truckers, or at the same cost to the grower/marketer? By that time, the over the road truckers will have handled two cross country trips between existing facilities, probably with backhaul to boot, which totally negates rail's efficiency advantage since the truckers will have hauled just as much freight in that time period as the rail cars.


I am a little fuzzy on the math here. How is that two truckers (team drivers) who haul two truckloads in ten days at twice the cost and half the amount of freight (4 truckloads per freight car) are more cost effective and competitive than the railroad. Besides the fact if they are driving a SAT linked tractor there dispatcher could shut them down for either speed or hours violations. To even have a prayer of 2 West Coast turnarounds in ten days you better be able to to drop and pick trailers at both ends. One way will be deadheading. Throw in a back haul and they will back for more cherries in 7-8 days. Unless of course they're back hauling from the same warehouses. NOT This revival of a tried and true method of deliving fresh produce to the east coast by rail will be something to look forward to. [2c] As always ENJOY
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Posted by greyhounds on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 9:53 PM
I'd like to congradulate Railex, Bill Collins and all the other people there for getting this off the ground. It is great to see a well thought out effort like this agressively go after the perishable business. It's a HUGE long haul market.

A middleman like Railex is just what is needed to make it work.

Good Grief! $9,000/truckload from Washington State to the east coast. That's $3.00/mile. At 42K per truck that's over $0.21/pound on apples just for transportation.

Can we buy stock in Railex?
"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
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Posted by ericsp on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 10:01 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by igoldberg

For the last couple of years the UP has been running the "Salad Bowl Express" from the Salins and San Juaquin valleys in Caliornia to New York. UP has taken the buisiness away from the trucks with delivery guaranteed jin 94 hours and at competiver pricing. Trains had a great article on it. I will dig it out and post the date of the issue.

You are probably thinking about the Express Lane service. While cars from the Coast are probably added at Roseville, no Express Lane train is listed as originating, or running through, there.

"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 10:48 PM
"Don't forget, there are plenty of storage facilities already in place, so why would the growers want to yank their investments there and commit to a centralized rail distribution center? "

The ultimate goal of a logistics planner is to ELIMINATE the warehouse. The fruit growers have to truck out of the orchards, but would just love to perform a truck-to-railcar transfer in Wallula and do the storage on the east end - within overnight reach of the consumers in small-lot shipments

Once you get away from the ultra-perishables such as lettuce, the cost of trucking (which is skyrocketing) offsets the value of decreased transit time - the economic "need for speed" quickly disappears.

The service will have to be rock-solid RELIABLE to become an option. If they consistently hit that 124-hour target, the rails will have a clear price advantage in offering a competitive service. But - they can't just drop the service the next time APL wants to run a another stack train, or the stock price dips seventeen cents.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 10:56 PM
Thanks for the kind words gents,
Would also like to add in while we're doing the truck math, not to forget that the RR will be getting 2 revenue producing runs per month guaranteed per car in the 55 unit train. Normal turnaround for conventional reefer cars is 28 days avg per revenue trip. Put in an aging 57 foot mech reefer fleet, less yard switching, humping and bad order cars (64 ft cars are brand new and satellite controlled). UP also gets a strong presence in WA state, typically BN country, whose reefer fleet is in even worse shape and whose avg DELIVERY time is 14-22 days on perishables. (UP is 8 from ID, 10 from CA)
And yes, Express Lane service was avail, but it was an added cost for what boiled down to 1 day earlier service from the west coast because the UP had basically streamlined their whole operation so well that conventionals would show up the next day or two anyway. (On CSX anyway, NYC, BOS etc...)
regards,
Bill
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Posted by rrandb on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 11:31 PM
So bcrailex while we have your ear. Is there any talk of eventually expanding to other markets. Would your model work on shorter hauls? Florida to New York comes to mind with the amount of produce they grow. Tropicana has proved they can get decent transit times? [?] Thanks in advance.
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Posted by greyhounds on Wednesday, June 7, 2006 12:57 AM
Bill C - when I check the USDA site for truck rates I don't see $9,000 from Washington to the east coast.

www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/wa_fv190.txt

Am I not understanding something?
"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 7, 2006 8:17 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds

Bill C - when I check the USDA site for truck rates I don't see $9,000 from Washington to the east coast.

www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/wa_fv190.txt

Am I not understanding something?


Perhaps those are the one-way rates, with an implicit backhaul. I would think it is more difficult to find a backhaul load for a reefer than a dry van.

Regarding Railex, don't forget to add in the local truck rate on both ends, and then compare price and expediency with the over the road guys. There is also some reefer service going TOFC between the PNW and East Coast.

Bill C. - Since the Wallula area has access to both UP and BNSF, will this facility end up allowing access by BNSF should they offer service out of the facility, or is this facility in Wallula only accessable to UP?

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