Canadien ?

[fuzzybroken]

The WisRail Yahoo Group has been having a discussion on (among other things all in the same thread) the use of "Canadien National" on one side of Canadian National equipment. Somebody mentioned that it was Canadian law that railroad equipment be bilingual, yet I have never seen "Canadien Pacific" on any of CP's equipment!

So, those of you who are Canadian, or knowledgeable about Canadian law, (or both!) would you please enlighten those of us less educated, especially those of us in Wisconsin where two of the 4 Class 1's are Canadian???

Thanks,
-Mark
www.fuzzyworld3.com

[Anonymous]

Oh my. [:0]

I certainly hope this "Canadian" thread doesn't turn out like the one we had about 2 years ago. [B)] [8] [V]

I am sure Ed and some of the "old hats" remember it.

Don't bother to look for it, you won't find it. [:0] It is "lost in ciberspace." [;)]


I am sure that some of our Canadian forum member will be happy to tell us what they know. [:)]

I will email a few and see if they will help you out.

[CShaveRR]

CN made its cars bilingual voluntarily.

You'll notice that the latest repaints have just the logo--no road name in eaither language.

[der5997]

Hi Flip, I see you are having a look at this.
I think that CShaveRR has it exactly. It's posible that CN was urged to do the bi-lingual thing since it had governmental historical ties, but can't be sure on that. Anyway, it's all just a wet noodle now, as has been pointed out.

[eolafan]

We see CP units on BNSF trains here from time to time and some have Canadien on one side and Canadian on the other for true bilingual paint jobs.

[Anonymous]

The reason for this was probably because CN was a government-owned corporation until it was sold off in 1995. CN adopted their "wet noodle" logo and paint schemes in 1960 and this is when they started using Canadien National. Prior to that, every piece of CN equipment was lettered Canadian National. It's interesting to see that they did this at the time because, while their has always been a large French-speaking population in Quebec, Canada didn't actually become officially bilingual until the Trudeau era (1968-1970's).

Of interest and sort of related to this topic is an incident that took place back in the 60's that I saw a thing about on TV a long time ago. Things were heating up in Quebec at this time (there have been some bad conflicts of French against English in our history). Some people jumped the president of CN while he was walking to CN headquarters in Montreal and stole the papers he was carrying. They found out that there weren't any French-Canadians on CN's board of directors and this sparked violent protests in Quebec. I don't remember what actually came of it, though.

Jim, Ah, yes, I remember that thread all too well! I should, considering that I'm the one who started it in the first place, never intending for it to spark the flame war that it did. For those who don't know, there was an item on the news here that CN didn't want to be known as Canadian National anymore, but simply CN (kind of like Burlington Northern Santa Fe who are now officially known as BNSF). This was sparking a lot of anger by people who felt that they were downplaying being Canadian. I thought this was and interesting news item and decided to mention it here. What I ended up with was a viscious USA vs. Canada battle. Anyway, it seems that CN is just CN. I don't think they are downplaying their Canadian heritage, though, as their website is a .ca address.

[M636C]

When Canadian Pacific Airlines became "Canadian Airlines" (about 1986 or so) they adopted a version of CP's "Multimark" which was basically an arrowhead. They replaced the "a" or "e" in "Canadian" with the arrowhead, facing the front of the plane.
So on the right side it read - "Canadi>n"
and on the left side it read - "Canadi<n"

I don't know about you guys, but I thought that was pretty clever.

From my work, I had a lot of dealings with a Canadian company "CMC". This could stand for "Canadian Marconi Company" or "Compagnie Marconi Canadienne", but it was never spelt out. I had to deal with their legal department, and I'm sure all their answers were written in French and translated (But perhaps all legal stuff sounds like that).

Peter

[Anonymous]

Hello My Friend Mitchell [:D]

Yes, I did remember who started that thread. [;)]

I remember a lot about that thread and its fallout. But thankfully it is history now. [8D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C


From my work, I had a lot of dealings with a Canadian company "CMC". This could stand for "Canadian Marconi Company" or "Compagnie Marconi Canadienne", but it was never spelt out. I had to deal with their legal department, and I'm sure all their answers were written in French and translated (But perhaps all legal stuff sounds like that).

Via's LRC trains used that same principle. LRC stands for "Light Rapid Comfortable," which in French is "Leger Rapide Comfortable." When coming up with a name for the new trains, they wanted to have one that would have the same initials in both English and French due to Canada's official bilingual status and Via being a crown corporation.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sask_Tinplater

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C


From my work, I had a lot of dealings with a Canadian company "CMC". This could stand for "Canadian Marconi Company" or "Compagnie Marconi Canadienne", but it was never spelt out. I had to deal with their legal department, and I'm sure all their answers were written in French and translated (But perhaps all legal stuff sounds like that).

Via's LRC trains used that same principle. LRC stands for "Light Rapid Comfortable," which in French is "Leger Rapide Comfortable." When coming up with a name for the new trains, they wanted to have one that would have the same initials in both English and French due to Canada's official bilingual status and Via being a crown corporation.

Via also gets away with just using "Via"

They avoided using a french or english word, so by making up the word Via, it's neither english or french, so they avoided putting two names on everything.

Rather clever if you ask me.

[Anonymous]

Canadians, with the possible exception of the Swiss, have got to be world champs in multilingual accommodation. Remember their customs stations? Duanes CANADA Customs. Brilliant.

True, we don't see "Canadian Pacifique" on CPR cars, but order up their annual report on pdf and you will be offered both Anglophone and Francophone versions. Tres sympathetique!

[jchnhtfd]

Mes amis! The use of the bilingual markings wasn't mandated, it was a friendly gesture to all Canadians, whether Francophone or Anglophone. Many Canadian companies do that, and it does help (by the way: 'VIA' is not a made up word; it's Latin, and means 'road' or 'highway').

All government information, however, must be available in both English and French (and most large corporations do that too); this only gets interesting at the nit-picking legal phase; generally, either the English or French version is THE official version; it can't be both.

[coborn35]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sask_Tinplater

There was an item on the news here that CN didn't want to be known as Canadian National anymore, but simply CN (kind of like Burlington Northern Santa Fe who are now officially known as BNSF). This was sparking a lot of anger by people who felt that they were downplaying being Canadian. I thought this was and interesting news item and decided to mention it here.

They actually told their employee's that they could not refer to them as Canadian National, rather they had to say CN.

[Anonymous]

Hi

An interesting thing to observe regarding the Canadian Pacific is the fact that during almost 30 years they used the name CP Rail, wich is pretty biligual. In fact, CPR returns to its roots with the name Canadian Pacific on its locos and rolling stock only after it has sold most of its assets east of Montreal, leaving the province were there is the biggest part of the french population of Canada.

This may explain why there is no car painted Canadien Pacifique. Also, FYI, in french it would be Pacifique Canadien, as the Name candian pacific refer to the ocean. Translate Candian Pacific in Canadien Pacifique would refer to the canadian who are pacifist...

Finaly as FuzzyBroken ask for some law, law is also a concern in this. As some of you may know, in Quebec, there is the Charter of the French language. It was adopted by our legislature to protect and promote the use of french in business and labour relations. This law oblige businesses to have a french name and to use french ads. However, regarding the name, the regulation made some exception for businesses from outside Quebec.

Finally, Canadian Pacific can use its name in english in Quebec, but, the political climate in 68 (when they adopt the Multimark and the CP Rail denomination) may have led them to choose a biligual name as CN did some years earlier.

[Gluefinger]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan

We see CP units on BNSF trains here from time to time and some have Canadien on one side and Canadian on the other for true bilingual paint jobs.

I've never seen a CP unit with "Canadien Pacific" on the side, nor have I seen any pictures of them. They just said CP Rail on the side from the 1960s until about 1998 anyway.

[krump]

QUOTE: Originally posted by smalling_60626


True, we don't see "Canadian Pacifique" on CPR cars, but order up their annual report on pdf and you will be offered both Anglophone and Francophone versions. Tres sympathetique!

to be truly Canadian, the words would probably need to be in reverse order on the other side: "Pacifique Canadien" and "Nationale Canadien" and that would simply mess up the CPR / CN letters [:D]

[Anonymous]

I don't follow hockey very closely but I don't recall ever seeing news articles about the "Montreal Canadians" -- always "Montreal Canadiens."

[jchnhtfd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lincoln5390

I don't follow hockey very closely but I don't recall ever seeing news articles about the "Montreal Canadians" -- always "Montreal Canadiens."

I would hope it wold les Montreal Canadiens! Montreal is, fundamentally, a French-Canadian city, after all![8D]

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jchnhtfd

QUOTE: Originally posted by lincoln5390

I don't follow hockey very closely but I don't recall ever seeing news articles about the "Montreal Canadians" -- always "Montreal Canadiens."

I would hope it wold les Montreal Canadiens! Montreal is, fundamentally, a French-Canadian city, after all![8D]

Actually, it is le Club de Hockey de Montreal, hence the C-around-H on the front of their sweaters. The North American Soccer League team in the mid-1970's was actually Olympique de Montreal.

[BentnoseWillie]

My understanding is the C is for "Canadiens" and the H is for "Habitants".

"Les Habitants" is the team's nickname - generally abbreviated in Engli***o "The Habs". It's also occasionally said to stand for "center hice" - the latter mainly by Leafs fans. [:o)]

I've been waiting my whole life...I can wait a couple more years.

[Anonymous]

I'm counting on the above post to win me a Daily Double on Jeopardy.

[Anonymous]

HEY, I just checked with an M.A. in French and he says "Canadien Pacifique" would be grammatically correct.

Reasoning: both words are adjectives; think of it as short for (Le Chemin de Fer)Canadien Pacifique. Both adjectives are qualitative and, as in most Romance languages, follow the noun; but "Canadien" nonetheless comes first after the noun because it is the more important attribute. Both RR's are Canadian(en); that's the main point.