Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").
QUOTE: Originally posted by missouri I sure have seen a lot of EYE-witnesses saying the equipment failed. What do you think---Bought off or the reports lost? Train barrels into car, killing driver Possible problem with crossing gate under scrutiny Recent stories about traffic accidents. Recent stories about plane crashes and train accidents Post or read comments in our online forums By Darrell Smith The Desert Sun July 10, 2003 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MECCA -- Investigators are focusing on a malfunctioning rail crossing gate in the death of a man whose car was struck by a train Wednesday. The collision happened just before 11:30 a.m. at a rail crossing on Avenue 66 north of Highway 111 in Mecca, said California Highway Patrol Officer Tami Low. The driver, a 76-year-old Mecca man, was waiting behind the crossing gate when the crossing arm rose high enough to allow the man’s car to pass, witnesses told CHP investigators. When he did, a Union Pacific freight train, loaded with nearly 300,000 pounds of cargo, barreled through the Toyota station wagon, knocking it into a nearby culvert. Investigators marked the train’s speed at 61 mph, normal for that stretch of track, Low said. "We have really good witnesses who came forward. We’re looking at that very seriously," Low said of the crossing gate. "We have strong witnesses and strong indications there may have been a malfunction." The train’s conductor leapt from the train and sprinted the length of the 37-car, 4,000-foot-long freight to pull the man from the wrecked car, Low said. But the man’s injuries were too great and he died just after 2 p.m. at Desert Regional Medical Center in Palm Springs. His name had not been released Wednesday pending notification of relatives. Neither the conductor nor the engineer were injured, and Union Pacific officials said the two were receiving counseling. The train, based out of Los Angeles, was heading to the East Coast, said Union Pacific spokesman Mark Davis. It is considered one of the most important trains on the railroad’s west-east route because of the expensive cargo it hauls, Low said. The route through Mecca is a busy one, Low said, with a train passing through every 20 minutes. The collision closed rail traffic for roughly 2 1/2 hours as crews tended to the victim and cleared the tracks. The highway patrol is investigating the wreck. Union Pacific officials will also look into the collision and the crossing gate. Union Pacific’s Davis would not comment specifically on allegations that the gate malfunctioned, citing its investigation into the wreck. Davis did not know Wednesday how long the railroad’s investigation would take. "As long as it takes," he said from the railroad’s Omaha, Neb., offices.
QUOTE: Originally posted by missouri The driver, a 76-year-old Mecca man, was waiting behind the crossing gate when the crossing arm rose high enough to allow the man’s car to pass, witnesses told CHP investigators.
QUOTE: Originally posted by missouri What about Moose Crossing signs Kevin. Should drivers stop, look, and listen?
QUOTE: NO no, you see the lights DO NOT stop flashing until the gate has reached there original state .. so therefore.. "rose high enough" DOES NOT mean the gates were going off... by Canadian law its wait until the Gates are COMPLETELY up and the lgiths HAVE STOPPED flashing ... lights don't stop flashing until the gate is completely up.. Ever noticed that??
Willy
QUOTE: Originally posted by missouri Sounds to me a ticket needs to be issued for falsely activateing a railroad crossing for over 5 minutes without the PROPER flagger being in place.
QUOTE: Originally posted by missouri Humans driving cars are impatient and no matter how much protection is present, they will ignore it if it doesn't suit their schedule.
yad sdrawkcab s'ti
QUOTE: Originally posted by ironhorseman Originally posted by missouri Humans driving cars are impatient and no matter how much protection is present, they will ignore it if it doesn't suit their schedule. you just defeted your own argument. it's not the train's or the railroad's fault it's the MOTORIST'S fault. WHEN THE GATE ARM'S DOWN: DON'T GO AROUND. No the driver didn't sit there and intentionally have the gate down because the RR is too damn cheap to manually override the equipment and put a couple flaggers out for a few minutes. The drivers figure the idiots are to lazy to turn the equipment off when there is NO train comeing. The railroads shouldn't be useing 1800's designed equipment. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 12, 2003 12:24 AM 1800's designed equipment? You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Why keep making a laughing stock of yourself? I do get a good laugh when I read your posts! Keep on truckin' lil' buddy! Ha ha! Reply Edit ironhorseman Member sinceAugust 2002 From: Memory Lane, on the sunny side of the street. 737 posts Posted by ironhorseman on Saturday, July 12, 2003 12:29 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by missouri The drivers figure the idiots are to lazy to turn the equipment off when there is NO train comeing. The railroads shouldn't be useing 1800's designed equipment. It's my impression you are no authority on railroad operation, rules, equipment, etc. There was no electricity in the 1800s. The first lighting of a city came about in the 1870s, but the first electricly powered crossing arms came when? Does anybody know? Not before 1900. I'll go to the library and look in the book of patents and see when these electricly powered crossing arms were invented. INCIDENTALLY: everything in railroading has been revolutionized. Standards in place even 50 years ago are now gone. From the manufacture of rail to the wheels to crossties, even crossings are different today than many, many years ago. WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR DEACTIVATING A RAILCROSSIN WHEN THE TRAIN IS STOPPED? I don't know, yet. I know some factors that cause a crossing to activate are motion, weight, and an electric current that closes a circuit from rail to rail using the steel wheels as a circuit link. I also know the electric crossings do not rely on local powerplants for electricity. They're independent. I would imagine turning off a crossing signal would have to go through the approval of the dispatcher. I'll research that as well for your satisfaction. WHEN THE GATE ARMS ARE DOWN, DON'T GO AROUND yad sdrawkcab s'ti Reply dekemd Member sinceDecember 2002 From: US 286 posts Posted by dekemd on Saturday, July 12, 2003 12:53 AM Speaking of the old days. If I remember history correctly automobiles weren't around in the 1800's either. I guess horse and buggys were the big problem back then. Missouri I'm curious why you think the railroads should be forking over all the money on safety equipment. Where I live the last rail line to be completed and placed in service occurred in 1904. I'm pretty sure there were very few roads 99 years ago. Which translates into very few grade crossings other than footpaths. Most of the roads and grade crossing in my neck of the woods were put in long after the railroad was there by federal, state and local govenments. It seems to me that since the govenment built these roads they should have most of the burden of safety equipment. Maybe what needs to happen is that the people who built the roads (ie. the govenment) should have to rebuild them and either go over or under the tracks thus eliminating grade crossing. I'm sure the railroads would be very happy to not have to worry about idiot drivers at grade crossings. Derrick Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Saturday, July 12, 2003 1:07 AM Linda Morgan, before she resigned from the FRA, stated that,"railroads love to close crossings, in fact, railroads and the FRA belive the safest crossing is the one that isnt there". Underpases and overpasses were the most common in cities before the 50s. Go the the oldest part of your city, and look at how the street designers handled grade crossings. They didnt, they went under the tracks more than they went across them. Those of us who railroad for a living would love for the new moderen designers to learn a lesson from the past. But... by now you have realized that no matter what you say to this clown[:o)]he wont listen, He has a problem with railroads and railroaders. Safety is not a concern of his, getting attention is. So Derrick, dont let him get you too riled up, thats how he gets his groove on[:D]. Stay Frosty, EdQUOTE: Originally posted by dekemd Speaking of the old days. If I remember history correctly automobiles weren't around in the 1800's either. I guess horse and buggys were the big problem back then. Missouri I'm curious why you think the railroads should be forking over all the money on safety equipment. Where I live the last rail line to be completed and placed in service occurred in 1904. I'm pretty sure there were very few roads 99 years ago. Which translates into very few grade crossings other than footpaths. Most of the roads and grade crossing in my neck of the woods were put in long after the railroad was there by federal, state and local govenments. It seems to me that since the govenment built these roads they should have most of the burden of safety equipment. Maybe what needs to happen is that the people who built the roads (ie. the govenment) should have to rebuild them and either go over or under the tracks thus eliminating grade crossing. I'm sure the railroads would be very happy to not have to worry about idiot drivers at grade crossings. Derrick 23 17 46 11 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 12, 2003 2:26 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by ironhorseman QUOTE: Originally posted by missouri The drivers figure the idiots are to lazy to turn the equipment off when there is NO train comeing. The railroads shouldn't be useing 1800's designed equipment. It's my impression you are no authority on railroad operation, rules, equipment, etc. There was no electricity in the 1800s. The first lighting of a city came about in the 1870s, but the first electricly powered crossing arms came when? Does anybody know? Not before 1900. I'll go to the library and look in the book of patents and see when these electricly powered crossing arms were invented. INCIDENTALLY: everything in railroading has been revolutionized. Standards in place even 50 years ago are now gone. From the manufacture of rail to the wheels to crossties, even crossings are different today than many, many years ago. WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR DEACTIVATING A RAILCROSSIN WHEN THE TRAIN IS STOPPED? I don't know, yet. I know some factors that cause a crossing to activate are motion, weight, and an electric current that closes a circuit from rail to rail using the steel wheels as a circuit link. I also know the electric crossings do not rely on local powerplants for electricity. They're independent. I would imagine turning off a crossing signal would have to go through the approval of the dispatcher. I'll research that as well for your satisfaction. WHEN THE GATE ARMS ARE DOWN, DON'T GO AROUND The patented invention of the electric closed track circuit by Dr. William Robinson in 1872 gave the railroad industry its first means of automatic vital signaling. The track circuit is used to detect the presence of a train or a broken rail within a block of track. When an electric current traveling through the rails in a block of track is shorted by the presence of a train or interrupted by a break in the rail, a red signal indicates danger to approaching trains. When the track is clear, the closed circuit activates a green signal to indicate that approaching trains can enter the block. In 1878, Dr. William Robinson founded the Union Electric Signal Co. to hold his patents, to produce track circuits, and to install them. This technology continues to be a foundation of rail signaling and communications today. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 12, 2003 2:30 AM The patented invention of the electric closed track circuit by Dr. William Robinson in 1872 gave the railroad industry its first means of automatic vital signaling. The track circuit is used to detect the presence of a train or a broken rail within a block of track. When an electric current traveling through the rails in a block of track is shorted by the presence of a train or interrupted by a break in the rail, a red signal indicates danger to approaching trains. When the track is clear, the closed circuit activates a green signal to indicate that approaching trains can enter the block. In 1878, Dr. William Robinson founded the Union Electric Signal Co. to hold his patents, to produce track circuits, and to install them. This technology continues to be a foundation of rail signaling and communications today. Reply Edit wabash1 Member sinceApril 2001 From: US 2,849 posts Posted by wabash1 on Saturday, July 12, 2003 5:03 AM missouri you almost said something that made sense. you was gettign a point across then fell apart problems are 1) weight has nothing to do with activation of a signal, the shunting of a track to close a circut. dispatcher can not have a signal cut out. he has no authority it goes much higher than that. all signals operate on electricity and the power comes from the local power company. the only time they dont use the power from the power company is when the power is out. then the signals go to battery backup.. keep up the work you always have us correcting your mistakes, and if you research something read all of it not just little parts and add your opinion as fillers that is where you keep getting the wrong ideas Reply ironhorseman Member sinceAugust 2002 From: Memory Lane, on the sunny side of the street. 737 posts Posted by ironhorseman on Sunday, July 13, 2003 3:45 PM OK, missouri dude, I did some research for you. You didn't site the source you referenced about the signaling. I found it word for word at http://www.switch.com/about/about.htm You plagerize quite well. While your copy and paste skills are exceptional, your ability to think critically, however, is less than adequate. The article you copied refers to BLOCK SIGNALING, not CROSSING ARMS an FLASHING LIGHT activation which is what we were talking about. Your second oversight is the part where it says this continues to be a "foundation of rail signaling and communications today." It's the FOUNDATION. That doesn't mean the exact same systems from 1870 are in place today. True, it is 1870s technology, but it works and works well. I still use a wooden pencil to write with but I guess then that makes me old fashioned. I will go to the library on Monday, just for you, like I promised and look up the patent for the grade crossing devices JUST FOR YOU. But before I do that let me quote you something from Trains Magazine Vol. 62, No. 1 January 2002 Pg. 80 "Ask Trains:" "Q: How are railroad grade-crossing lights and gates activated? "A: In the 1950s, audio frequency overly (AFO) track circuits were adopted by railroads for grade-crossing signal-control circuits, because this did not require insulated joints in the rails. The circuits were refined to not only detect the presence of a train, but also to sence its movement toward the crossing and start the warning signals based on that. If the train stopped moving, the warning signals were turned off; resumption of movement toward the crossing restarted them.... "Most installations now have constant warning time (CWT) control systems, which also utilize AFO on the rail...The warning devices thus can distinguish between fast- and slow-moving trains giving motorists the same amount of warning." Now this part is important so pay attention: "Most states have laws which specifiy the minimum crossing-signal warning time given to motorists and pedestrians, usually 20 to 30 seconds, before a train occupies the crossing. What all motorists should know is that at all grade crossings, the train has the right of way as stated in a 1934 decision of the U.S. Supreme Court." The reply was written by Steve Patterson, BNSF, Operation Lifesaver; and Clayton C. Tinkham If you want to look up US Supreme Court cases post 1893 I suggest http://findlaw.com There, put that in your pipe and smoke it. yad sdrawkcab s'ti Reply dekemd Member sinceDecember 2002 From: US 286 posts Posted by dekemd on Sunday, July 13, 2003 8:05 PM Ed, He won't get me riled up. I've been following the M&M saga for quite a while. I find it interesting how he changes the context on things, or leave facts out. Almost like a lawyer or a criminal. I work in law enforcement so dealing with people like this is a daily occurance. When backed in to a corner they'll usually back off or ignore what was said like they didn't hear it. For example, as I read the last post which at the time was made by ironhorseman, who made some very good points with good references, there were two members looking at this topic; myself and Mr. Missouri. I waited 20 minutes and he never replied to ironhorseman's post. But to give him the benifit of the doubt, he may be looking up the references. Your notice too that he didn't answer my post of yours either. Kind of like selective hearing[:)] Derrick quote]Originally posted by edblysard Linda Morgan, before she resigned from the FRA, stated that,"railroads love to close crossings, in fact, railroads and the FRA belive the safest crossing is the one that isnt there". Underpases and overpasses were the most common in cities before the 50s. Go the the oldest part of your city, and look at how the street designers handled grade crossings. They didnt, they went under the tracks more than they went across them. Those of us who railroad for a living would love for the new moderen designers to learn a lesson from the past. But... by now you have realized that no matter what you say to this clown[:o)]he wont listen, He has a problem with railroads and railroaders. Safety is not a concern of his, getting attention is. So Derrick, dont let him get you too riled up, thats how he gets his groove on[:D]. Stay Frosty,
Originally posted by missouri Humans driving cars are impatient and no matter how much protection is present, they will ignore it if it doesn't suit their schedule.
QUOTE: Originally posted by missouri The drivers figure the idiots are to lazy to turn the equipment off when there is NO train comeing. The railroads shouldn't be useing 1800's designed equipment.
QUOTE: Originally posted by dekemd Speaking of the old days. If I remember history correctly automobiles weren't around in the 1800's either. I guess horse and buggys were the big problem back then. Missouri I'm curious why you think the railroads should be forking over all the money on safety equipment. Where I live the last rail line to be completed and placed in service occurred in 1904. I'm pretty sure there were very few roads 99 years ago. Which translates into very few grade crossings other than footpaths. Most of the roads and grade crossing in my neck of the woods were put in long after the railroad was there by federal, state and local govenments. It seems to me that since the govenment built these roads they should have most of the burden of safety equipment. Maybe what needs to happen is that the people who built the roads (ie. the govenment) should have to rebuild them and either go over or under the tracks thus eliminating grade crossing. I'm sure the railroads would be very happy to not have to worry about idiot drivers at grade crossings. Derrick
23 17 46 11
QUOTE: Originally posted by ironhorseman QUOTE: Originally posted by missouri The drivers figure the idiots are to lazy to turn the equipment off when there is NO train comeing. The railroads shouldn't be useing 1800's designed equipment. It's my impression you are no authority on railroad operation, rules, equipment, etc. There was no electricity in the 1800s. The first lighting of a city came about in the 1870s, but the first electricly powered crossing arms came when? Does anybody know? Not before 1900. I'll go to the library and look in the book of patents and see when these electricly powered crossing arms were invented. INCIDENTALLY: everything in railroading has been revolutionized. Standards in place even 50 years ago are now gone. From the manufacture of rail to the wheels to crossties, even crossings are different today than many, many years ago. WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR DEACTIVATING A RAILCROSSIN WHEN THE TRAIN IS STOPPED? I don't know, yet. I know some factors that cause a crossing to activate are motion, weight, and an electric current that closes a circuit from rail to rail using the steel wheels as a circuit link. I also know the electric crossings do not rely on local powerplants for electricity. They're independent. I would imagine turning off a crossing signal would have to go through the approval of the dispatcher. I'll research that as well for your satisfaction. WHEN THE GATE ARMS ARE DOWN, DON'T GO AROUND
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