Dark windows...

[Railroadgun]

It seems that some people just cannot help but express their dislike of firearms and firearms owners in response to any situation. The funny thing is that should this country ever fall into chaos they will be the first to try to beg, borrow or steal a gun.I suggest that the loco manufacturers be contacted to find the real answer and that TrainsMagazine does an article on the true state of shooting assaults against the railroads.
I am an NRA member, model railroader, and a railfan for 67 years.
Railroadgun

[CSXrules4eva]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Ok - to add to the mirror rumor - do the cabs have any kind of sun visors? I use mine constantly and can't imagine driving without it.... especially since it has a mirror on the reverse side!

Mook

Mook you must have constant sun glare in your area. I get it evey once and a while but, not all the time. I tend to have my sun visors in my truck in the mid way position just because it looks cool, with my lifted suspension and body work. lol Hay maybe when I become a LE I'll do the same with the visors on the locomotive. lol

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance

The temperature in the cab of the Sacramento Southern steam engine last Saturday was between 125 and 135 degrees -- no AC and no tinted windows. They were alternating crew members between each 40 minute run to provide them some heat relief.

dd

The (real, if small) steam engine at the RR park in Scottsdale AZ only runs in the winter. In the summer they use a "diesel."

[edblysard]

No, the headlights are the same...
But it makes little difference, they still do a great job of lighting up ahead..
Ed

[vsmith]

Cartmann: "Mr Garrison, Can I ask a stupid question?"

Mr Garrison: "Well you know what I always say, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people.."

So I'll ask a stupid question, if the windows are darker, did they bump up the headlights and ditchlight output so they can see better at night?

[dldance]

The temperature in the cab of the Sacramento Southern steam engine last Saturday was between 125 and 135 degrees -- no AC and no tinted windows. They were alternating crew members between each 40 minute run to provide them some heat relief.

dd

[Anonymous]

All of CPs newer loco's (AC4400s) have tinted windows.

I have yet to see a CN loco with tinted windows.

[CHIPSTRAINS]

MAYBE THE GE'S ARE TINTED SO THAT REAL HOGGERS WON'T BE SEEN IN THEM.. ITHINK THEY LIKE THE SD70'S BETTER[:D][:D]

[oltmannd]

I can guarantee you that the tinted windows started because of (drum roll please):

AIR CONDITIONING

not the computer (computers started in 1984)
not the FRA glazing (FRA glazing regs were circa 1980)

GE found that the AC provided better, more uniform comfort in their new "wide cab" with tinted windows. They offered up several degrees of tinting and the RR's helped them pick the proper one.

I was writing loco specs at Conrail at the time and was involved in the decision., so this is as close to the horses mouth as you'll get!

BTW, the FRA glazing on front and rear facing windows is desinged to take a concrete block, point first at 50 (or maybe 40) mph. The side windows are designed for a 22 caliber bullet at 1000(?) fps.

[Modelcar]

....All good stuff Ed....You mention of the SF installing A/C way back when...I can mention that back in '69 to '71 when I was doing some test work in the Arizona desert...near Kingman...I did notice the SF units going by seemed to have an A/C unit installed on the engine...Believe some were on the roof.....I can't imagaine how hot it must have been without them winding up those grades in the desert there...But then on the other hand, think back when it was steam and that massive firebox and steam boiler right next to the operating fellows...That must have been a scorcher.

[edblysard]

Yes on the visor, no on the mirror...
although some locomotives do come with cup holders.
Ed[8D]

[Mookie]

Ok - to add to the mirror rumor - do the cabs have any kind of sun visors? I use mine constantly and can't imagine driving without it.... especially since it has a mirror on the reverse side!

Mook

[edblysard]

The sad truth is the A/C is for the crew...Santa Fe was putting A/C on their locomotive long before computers....

The "computer" for locomotives are located in the nose compartment, in a rack in front of the engineer’s seat, and in the electrical cabinet on the rear wall.

If you have ever been inside an AC4400 or a SD70Mac, with the front nose door and the middle crew compartment door closed, you quickly realize it can get well over 100 degrees in the nose...the A/C has nothing to do with the computers, (really fault code chips, very much like what has been used in the automotive world for decades) but for the crew.

If the A/C was for the computers, they would run ducts to the electrical cabinet and the nose compartment, both of which have none.

What do you guys think happens when the prime mover's auto start/stop kicks in and the unit shuts down for fuel savings?

It gets hotter than blue blazes in the cabs all the time.

I have been in some that were so hot you couldn’t touch anything metal, or sit in the seats until the A/C had been run for a good while.

Quentin, the cabs are insulated both for comfort, and sound.

There is a FRA max decibel rating for the cab, both at idle and full throttle.

Some of EMDs locomotives have the cab isolated from the rest of the body and frame to reduce both noise and vibration.

The windows are tinted to reduce both the glare, and the heat in the cab.
Note on UPs leased units from CEFX, the cab roofs are painted white?
This too helps reduce the heat transfer from sunlight.

The windows are not bullet proof, but bullet resistant, and meet the FRA glazing strength requirements and the FRA shatter resistant requirements.

CSXengineer already told you that small arms fire wont come through, but a medium to large caliber rifle can punch a hole in the windows right quick.

The tint helps in this also.

Oh, and the tint helps keep people on the outside from seeing the engineer use the mirror to fix his hair!

Wabash, still got that mirror?[:D]

Ed

[Anonymous]

The sad truth is, the dark windows and air-conditioning isn't for the crews benefit.
The new A/C engines have a huge amount of computers and sensors onboard.
If allowed to overheat reliability and fuel economy would suffer. Where I work on the UP you NEVER saw an air-conditioned switch engine. Then come the remote control locomotives (RCL's). Virutally the entire fleet of them is now air-conditioned. All the better to cool off the computer that's doing my job.

Of course, I'm not bitter...

[UPTRAIN]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by kenbowes

As long as all you live in a country that holds gun ownership as sacred

I'm NRA and I vote.

Dan

Guns don't kill people, husbands who come home early do! -Larry the Cable Guy GIT-R-DONE!

My [2c]...Guns: More than fun...they're freedom.

[Anonymous]

i believe there is insulation around the frame of the cab, similar to what is in a car.
and as for CN and CP, a large majority of CP's AC's do indeed have tinted windows. CN has never been a company to 'splurge on the extra's' .
ever notice how annoying the sun can be when its coming in the side window? either burning your arm off, or right in your eye where the sun shade doesnt cover. My guess is the tint is an added comfort for crews

[mudchicken]

naw......The real reason has to do with those mirrors and the hogger cannot be seen looking at 'em![:D][:D][:D]

[Modelcar]

....Question for railroaders....Is there any insulation in and around the perimeter of the cab....I would imagine it would cut down on some noise and of course the heat and cold....

[tnchpsk8]

My bet would be as a heat deterrent. Having been a long-haul trucker for thirty years, I would put aftermarket tint on the side and rear windows to block out some of the sun's heat therefore letting the a/c work better. As for CN and CP not having tint on their windows maybe both companies feel that with the "cooler" temps in Canada they don't feel it as necessary as locomotives traveling through the South and Southwestern states.

[tree68]

Re: Dark windows and target practice. The windows are large compared to what would be visible of the crew. If you can't see them, you're a little less likely to get lucky and hit them.

And the bozos who would shoot at train crews probably care little about the NRA, or anything else but their own amusement....

[Anonymous]

Believe the CSX engineer's explanation. For "attack protection," check 49CFR Part 223 relating to requirements for locomotive glass (glazing) - Type I and Type II. Your library may have the CFR's, or you can find it on the internet. It's interesting, revealing reading.

[adrianspeeder]

DO NOT turn this into a gun thread! Or you will be sorry.

It is legal to have the back windows fully tinted of an SUV, and I went with a 20% for the front windows on some of the trucks.

Adrianspeeder

[railroadnut675]

it doesn't matter so long as everyone is safe and feels ok ( and if they don't feel like someone will jump onto the tracks with an AK-47

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kenbowes

As long as all you live in a country that holds gun ownership as sacred

I'm NRA and I vote.

Dan

[Anonymous]

As long as all you live in a country that holds gun ownership as sacred, you're more likely to have these kinds of problems. Seems to me recent model CN and CP locomotives don't have heavily tinted glass!

KB

[dharmon]

Unfortunately, I suspect that it has as much to do with comfort the electronics as it does comfort of the crew. As the systems become more "chip" dependent, they become more temperature sensitive. The cooler the better.

[Modelcar]

...And some tinted windows {on Vehicles}, from the factory are rather dark....My S-10 Xtreme has factory "deep tinted" windows and you can not identify who would be in the vehicle from the rear and small side windows but the front side and windshield are not quite as dark but still affords a measure of privacy and helps keep out heat...Same for moon roof glass.....I expect an engine headed south or southwest with a hot afternoon sun the deep tint on side windows would be some help to the engineer.....

[adrianspeeder]

Note the smilies at the end. calm down dude.

I go with tinted windows just to keep it cooler.

Adrianspeeder

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed

Why not check with the maker of the locos? I am sure they can give you the answers to your questions concerning tinting the cab windows. [:o)][:p][:)]

What a jerk! He was just asking.

[spbed]

Why not check with the maker of the locos? I am sure they can give you the answers to your questions concerning tinting the cab windows. [:o)][:p][:)]

Originally posted by Cway95
[

Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR  Austin TX Sub

• Reply