War of the Worlds

[Anonymous]

In the new Steven Spielberg movie, War of the Worlds, there is a scene where an Amtrak train blows through a crossing at around 80 mph, completely on fire, locomotive and all. Near as i can tell, the loco is a GE P42.

My question is, if the loco is completely on fire like that, arent there systems to prevent a runaway like that? Or would those systems be burnt to a crisp by the fire?

**a note of caution** I was deeply disturbed by this scene, and I want to make sure it is impossible.

[ericsp]

I don't think the diesel engine, electrical systems, or bearings would last long if the locomotive was "completely on fire". If a locomotive did catch fire the crew would probably stop the train while the fire is small and either detach the passenger cars and move the locomotive or have the passengers get off the train.

[csxengineer98]

blaaaa.... another hollywood remake of a classic that they screwed up.....what is up with hollywood...have they finaly run out of ideas? and have to do remakes? and worse yet..totaly screw them up? someone wake me up when hollywood makes good movies agin....
csx engineer

[edblysard]

Only takes a second for the engineer to wipe the clock with the train brake and put it in emergency...the conductor has a even simpler valve on his side.
Even if they didnt, a complete fire in the cab would, at some point, burn through a enough control component wiring to shut it down.

For the most part, Hollywood pays no attention to how trains really work, it just dosnt fit their needs...


CSXengineer...got the original War of the Worlds on DVD...much better than the remake, still makes me a little uncomfortable, even with the old school effects...
Ed

[eolafan]

It's Hollywood, so what does reality have to do with anything. Also, in my opinion the remake was good but FAR FROM GREAT! I also have the original on VHS and watch it all the time.

[M636C]

This comment reminded me of the worst example of impossible movie/TV occurrences that I saw some time ago on the opening episode of a TV show called "Lost" (or something like that). I was changing channels and found myself looking at a scene of a crashed wide bodied aircraft. There was a turbofan engine, still attached by its pylon to a short section of wing, inverted with the engine standing on the pylon in the air and STILL RUNNING! It was in fact throttling up and down at random.

Now, a couple of my concerns. Aircraft engine pylons are designed to break off on crash landing, and on the other hand, wings are not designed to break off, since they have to support the plane. Apart from this, there is the problem that the fuel is stored in the wings - if the wing has broken off and is just a stub, where is the fuel coming from?

Sorry, I just find so many such problems in movies - my favourite railroad scene being "Runaway Train" where they had to break the cab window of an F unit to get to the next unit - why not use the nose door. A 1930s British film had the hero climb over the tender of the "Flying Scotsman" express - the only train that ALWAYS had locomotives with corridors through the tender (required for the non stop journey, to change loco crews).

Movies require suspension of disbelief.

Peter

[jeaton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by naterich89

In the new Steven Spielberg movie, War of the Worlds, there is a scene where an Amtrak train blows through a crossing at around 80 mph, completely on fire, locomotive and all. Near as i can tell, the loco is a GE P42.

I heard that Secretary Mineta stood up and cheered.

[TrainFreak409]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

blaaaa.... another hollywood remake of a classic that they screwed up.....what is up with hollywood...have they finaly run out of ideas? and have to do remakes? and worse yet..totaly screw them up? someone wake me up when hollywood makes good movies agin....
csx engineer

The original movie, although good, was a screw up itself. The book portrayed the monsters as tripods, not hovering saucer-like things.

[edblysard]

True, Scott,
But notice the creature in the original movie is a tripod, instead of a biped?
And, of course, H.G. Wells’s book wasn’t set in Southern California!

Ed

[dehusman]

There are two issues here, can a locomotive keep running while the
locomotive and train is on fire and can a train keep going if the crew is
gone/has been vaporized?

First part. There is nothing to stop a train if its on fire. It will keep
running until the fire burns through some critical part of the air brake,
electrical, control or fuel system or overheats to the point the water
boils/leaks out of the cooling system tripping the low water shut down.

Second part. Being a passenger engine it is probably equipped with an
"alertor" and "deadman" pedal that will stop the train if there is no crew
on the train. Some, but not all, freight engines are also equipped with
deadman's pedals and alertors.

Given that the premise of the scene is that the "walkers" are in the
neighborhood, the train being on fire an still moving is possible, since it
would have been attacked just a couple blocks away. Given that the "rays"
from the walkers turn people into dust, the crew, if dead, would not have
been able to activate the deadman's pedal and the train would have either
been stopped or be in the process of stopping shortly after being attacked.

As far as your concern that this really couldn't happen, if we were under
attack by aliens with death rays, worrying about whether or not the flaming
train would stop would not be high on my priority list. On the up side,
the probablity of being attacked by aliens with death rays is relatively
low.

The real burning question (I know, bad pun) is, what's on fire? The death rays don't catch stuff on fire (notice the people are turned to dust, but their flammable clothing doesn't catch on fire). So just what the heck is burning on the train?

Dave H.

[dharmon]

I liked the movie. I liked the original too. I try not to be too critical of movie stuff anymore. With the exception of a few movies, like say "Blackhawk Down" , realism gets skewd a bit for entertainment value..."Top Gun" anyone???

Anyway, it's probably the best advertising Amtrak's had in awhile.

And it certainly gives creedence to all those here that think Amtrak is critical to national defense....after all, the train was running....when nothing else was....albiet with no crew or passengers ...alive.......probably the first time Amtrak was actually on time.......


..and no one tried to beat the train across the crossing......OLI should be happy....

Dan

[Anonymous]

Thank you!

After all, if we were being attacked like that, the train would probably be low on my list too. It was just the way it WAS on fire and out of control that just got to me.

thanks again

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TrainFreak409



The original movie, although good, was a screw up itself. The book portrayed the monsters as tripods, not hovering saucer-like things.

Watch it again, the Martians ARE using Tripods!

The movie was set in 1953, time of Flying Saucers and Soviet Angst. George Pal wanted to update the Martians based on scientific ideas then in circulation, they came up with the idea of magnetic flux levitation via 3 emitters under the craft, you can see the legs flickering in the mist as they move early on. In the book the Heat Ray is housed inside the body of the machine and a parabolic mirror mounted on an armiture to direct it, in the movie the udpated it to the fearsome looking Cobrahead ray emitter, and Pal dispensed with the Black Smoke canisters in favor of the green Skeleton Beam emitters on each end of the Manta bodied war machine. Overall they did an outstanding job for the era's technological limits to portray an unstoppable foe.

As for Lil' Stevie's movie, OK I liked alot of parts, like the train scene which was timed perfectly ..."Nothing bad's happened here yet" the war machines looked very good, the action was tenser than expected, the effects flawless, But....

(WARNING alot of SPOILERS here!)

TOO MANY HOLES! If they aliens left machines here a million years ago why didnt they conquer the earth a million years ago? Armed Mastadon resistance?

I really hated the fact the Speilburg STOLE entire scenes and lines from the 1953 movie,
..."Once they start moving, no more news comes out of there" the basement scene right down to axing the electronic eye, and the arm coming out of the machine at the end.

Also I REALLY HATED that Speilburgs aliens looked EXACTLY like the aliens from "Independance Day" ...Did anyone else notice that? Where were the blood sucking octopus's from Well's novel? they would have been FAR scarier than those lame***aliens. Even the cyclopes martians from the '53 flick were far scarier looking.

[Anonymous]

That's what i like about this forum,. We can start on one subject & expand to diferent horizons. I luv it! Easter

[Anonymous]

That's what i like about this forum,. We can start on one subject & expand to diferent horizons. I luv it! Easter

[Anonymous]

That's what i like about this forum,. We can start on one subject & expand to diferent horizons. I luv it! Easter

[edblysard]

I think easter has expanded a little too much!

Ed

[mudchicken]

If a P42 was on fire, the carbody would have melted pronto![:D]

(Arvada, Co fire department learned that a few years ago, including the fireman who fell through the roof of the worthless GE that burned!)

[Anonymous]

I'd rather have seen a good adaptation of the original - H G Wells original setting and characters, directed by someone willing to stick to the source and not ruin it. The Jeff Wayne musical version is pretty close to the original and is also rather good - I was amused to see it climbing back up the album charts recently as I've had a copy for a few years now!

I think I may be able to say where the "flaming train" scene came from - anyone who's read the original will remember the last minutes of the Ironclad "Thunderchild" which rammed a tripod despite being hit by a heat ray and heavily damaged.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit

I'd rather have seen a good adaptation of the original - H G Wells original setting and characters, directed by someone willing to stick to the source and not ruin it. The Jeff Wayne musical version is pretty close to the original and is also rather good - I was amused to see it climbing back up the album charts recently as I've had a copy for a few years now!

I think I may be able to say where the "flaming train" scene came from - anyone who's read the original will remember the last minutes of the Ironclad "Thunderchild" which rammed a tripod despite being hit by a heat ray and heavily damaged.

Good observation! ...though it would have been more effective if it then plowed fullspeed into a Tripod leg, knocking it over.
And I agree, Why Oh WHY cant someone, anyone, BBC?, make a faithfull adaptation of the novel, 100 years + and no ones has ever done it!

[CSXrules4eva]

I though War of the Worlds was a darn good movie. I've never heard of it until this remake care out. I heard that HG Wells did the original and it was broadcased over the radio in the 1930s or something like that. I was also told that five people in New York commited suicided because they thought it was real since they tuned in in the middle of the broadcast. Interesting. Anyway in terms of seeing that rushing Amtrak on fire, I was pissed at that. Because, here is a perfictly good train with locomotive and cars that could of been given to me. lol j/k.
I liked the movie because it was a SCFI movie that was very serious, it wasn't funny or stupid like some of these horror movies made today. I also thought it had a good plot. Suprisingly for me I liked it. I usually don't tend to like those Mars Attacks, Star Wars, Star Treak, Godzilla, or Andaconda movies too much. I think they're stupid, but that's just my opinion.

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TrainFreak409

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

blaaaa.... another hollywood remake of a classic that they screwed up.....what is up with hollywood...have they finaly run out of ideas? and have to do remakes? and worse yet..totaly screw them up? someone wake me up when hollywood makes good movies agin....
csx engineer

The original movie, although good, was a screw up itself. The book portrayed the monsters as tripods, not hovering saucer-like things.

in the original movie..they where tripods... insted of haveing mechanical legs like the H.G. Wells book...they had magnetic legs that worked agisnt the earths gravity.... if you go back and watch the original movie... then the war craft are starting to rise from the crater...it shows it.. with the explination i just mentioned above..or at least something long the same lines...
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

three words guys - Drivers Vigilance Device. given that the train hadn't JUST been hit (within 30 secs- 1 minute), then at 80 or so MPH it could be plausible that at that speed, it would appear to have no martians in that area, but just up the road....
I havn't seen the movie, but the description of the scene sounds like thew video intro to the WotW PC game i got bout 5 years ago. based on the Musical adaptation, there is a shot of a Great Western express running through the darkness, the people in the carriages, the crew (all very well done) and then there is a tripod standing over the tracks and it proceeds to destroy the train. The loco boiler blows up, followed by the first 3 carriages with the rest derailing. I can only guess the gas lighting causes the carriages to blow up.
I too would like to see a true version of the novel done, but remain content to watch to 1953 version. they did it with Time Machine, twice!

[Murphy Siding]

You guys do know that this is make believe, don't you?

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

You guys do know that this is make believe, don't you?

Oops, I guess I should not have shot that water tower.

[coborn35]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

There are two issues here, can a locomotive keep running while the
locomotive and train is on fire and can a train keep going if the crew is
gone/has been vaporized?


Second part. Being a passenger engine it is probably equipped with an
"alertor" and "deadman" pedal that will stop the train if there is no crew
on the train. Some, but not all, freight engines are also equipped with
deadman's pedals and alertors.



Dave H.

Most loco's nowadays have a deadmans pedal in the cab or you dont even really need a pedal all you need to do is when the alarm goes on, quick tap the bell on and off.

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by coborn35

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

There are two issues here, can a locomotive keep running while the
locomotive and train is on fire and can a train keep going if the crew is
gone/has been vaporized?


Second part. Being a passenger engine it is probably equipped with an
"alertor" and "deadman" pedal that will stop the train if there is no crew
on the train. Some, but not all, freight engines are also equipped with
deadman's pedals and alertors.



Dave H.

Most loco's nowadays have a deadmans pedal in the cab or you dont even really need a pedal all you need to do is when the alarm goes on, quick tap the bell on and off.

the dead mans pedal is a thing of the past... although thier are a few units out thier that still have them...most are gone..replaced by the electronic alerter systems...
csx engineer

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

You guys do know that this is make believe, don't you?

it is? maybe in your universe..lol
csx engineer

[alcodave]

I thought it was a very good summer fun movie.The train scene was pretty cool.And I liked the way the military was represented in a positive manner in this movie unlike in the 1950's version.

[anb740]

The train in question appeared to be one of the Talgo sets used in the Pacific Northwest...the unit on the head end was an F59PHI. Exactly why they used this train for a scene set in New Jersey is yet another of example of Hollywood not knowing a thing about trains!