Track Laying and Caboose Questions

[miniwyo]

SO, at my local Model Railroad Club we have an open area just off the end of a rail spur that we would like to utilize, Who would we call in the UP to get some track laid back about 50 feet, what would it cost? We are hopingto obtain an old caboose to park there so we can have a meeting room, and also to make that open space look better? Also where might we find an old caboose for cheap?

[mudchicken]

(1) Is the track on UP property?

(2) If #1 is NO......Who owns the track? Underlying property?

(2a) Who has the license agreement, M&O terms say what? Do you have access to a copy of that agreement?

(3) Is the track even in service? (Do not shoot yourselves in the foot like NRHS did at Glenwood Springs[(-D].....)

(4) Do you understand that if you are connecting to an active track, you are looking at blue flag rules for an occupied car, a derail and extra trackage for a buffer between you and the derail (so a car can go half a carlength [at least] after some dumb switchman allows a car to be shoved over the derail without striking the caboose?)

(5) If you run power or plumbing to the caboose, you open a whole new can of worms [including insulated joints and static grounds]

Not to be hard on you MiniWyo, but before you bother Sue, do you know what you are getting into? Sounds to me like too much "dreaming" without the obligatory reality check. Does your group have the $$$$ to get into this? (and UP, like anyone else, wants to be compensated for their time & effort, even at this level)

http://www.uprr.com/suppliers/index.shtml

Smarter to build a track panel and drop the $10,000 waycar on it with a crane? (most of the surviving "shoving platforms" I would want no part of anyhow[xx(]0

[banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead]

[miniwyo]

well, i am pretty sure that the owners of the building we are in own the property and the spur, they don't really care what we do with our part of the building inside or out, it just helps keep the vandalism down, The line is somewhat active it is a small little siding off the UP mainline that they sometime park some cars on, It has a bumping post at the end of the spur, what we waould like ot do is remove the bumping post, extend the track, park the caboose, and then disconnect the track between the 2 and replace the bumping post, Would this work?

[Noah Hofrichter]

I have to agree with the muddy bird, it would be simpler to hire a crane, build yourself a panel of track, and have it delivered by truck. The UP would make you pay an absolute fortune to extend track, move the caboose into place, and take up some track. As Mudchicken said this will cost you way big bucks, are you sure you have a good amount of thousands to spend?

Noah

[markpierce]

The previous writers are probably right on. But why don't you contact UP directly and get some info from them? Personally, I don't see any value in connecting with the railroad unless you are going to run your rolling stock on the mainline. (And if you could manage that, I'll proclaim you a miracle worker!)

[PNWRMNM]

Mini,

You will probably find having a contractor build the track is better way to go. Figure $125 per foot. Removing and replacing the bumper will add cost.

A likely serious problem is who owns the ground you will be building on. You will need their permission. If it is UP, I doubt you will get permission becuase of liability issues.

I would figure $10-15,000 for the caboose. You will also have to pay freight charges on it. If you can not extend the spur, you would also have crane costs. You should be able to get a quote for that locally.

It will not be cheap. Good luck.

Mac

[Hugh Jampton]

And if you buy a manky old caboose that's been out of service for a while you just can't hook it to the back of a UP train for delivery. It'll need inspecting and enough maintenance to ensure that it is track worthy (this could be costly for what is essentially going to be a static vehicle).
We have a rail connection but still bring 99.999% of our vehicles in on low-loaders and crane or ramp them off. It is the cheapest option.

[mudchicken]

....and does the building owner have a "current" contract for the maintenance, operation and use of the track? - If not, you have Elkins Act issues that will cost you more $$$$....

No sense in even attempting to call UP until you have located a caboose and determined its condition. There are still several UP/BN/Frisco cabeese located in east Denver on DRIR under clouded ownership that need a home.

[PNWRMNM]

Mudchicken,

With the Stagers Act I think the Elkins Act requirements went away. I suspect the Class I's still point to it in the case of a project they do not want to do though

Mac

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by PNWRMNM

Mudchicken,

With the Stagers Act I think the Elkins Act requirements went away. I suspect the Class I's still point to it in the case of a project they do not want to do though

Mac

Staggers did not remove the main part of Elkins which still says the railroads cannot play favorites outside of rates and still requires them to designate team tracks. (shortlines can get away with this, for a while) Southern Pacific and later Union Pacific learned this many times over with special "deals" set up by their operating departments operating independently of the normal marketing & industrial development channels to generate traffic. Unless the track that MiniWyo wants to use is designated as a team track or their landlord has a contract for the use of the track and cand have the railcar consigned to him, he has trouble$.

This is also part of the case in the ongoing Cleveland Terminal Warehouse Case in progress at STB now.

[miniwyo]

Well, I have been doing some digging and i think we can do it for WAAAAYY cheap, all it would cost us it the cost of a couple pieces of track and the $50 for the caboose, It is located 15 miles away near Green River and it took me forever to even think of this, my uncle is a contractor, he has equipment that will move an autorack no sweat, he has graciously stated that he would be more than happy to take his cran and flatbed semi truck to pick it up and then bring it into town, so we dont even have to worry about dealing with UP then all we have to worry about is fixing it up and getting it looking good.

[mudchicken]

Hope you are going to chain and chock that rascal so it won't roam[;)][;)][;)]

[Hugh Jampton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by miniwyo

Well, I have been doing some digging and i think we can do it for WAAAAYY cheap, all it would cost us it the cost of a couple pieces of track and the $50 for the caboose, It is located 15 miles away near Green River and it took me forever to even think of this, my uncle is a contractor, he has equipment that will move an autorack no sweat, he has graciously stated that he would be more than happy to take his cran and flatbed semi truck to pick it up and then bring it into town, so we dont even have to worry about dealing with UP then all we have to worry about is fixing it up and getting it looking good.

Just remember clearances when moving it on the road, once saw a transformer on the back of a truck take out a whole load of telephone wires. And a steam engine on a low loader get grounded on a hump-backed bridge.

[dknelson]

There are private contractors that lay track. BUT also do this: check with the local authorities to see how adding that track would affect local property taxes. Years ago my father had a client who owned an old factory building that had rail service -- long unused however. Having rails on the property added considerably to the assessed valuation (and the taxes) on the property. Even when the railroad removed the turnout the local authorities taxed the track which is where my father's involvement came in, to challenge the tax on the basis that the track no longer had value if there was no connection to the rail system.
Dave Nelson

[dldance]

miniwyo - when you ride the Heber Creeper this summer - ask them about getting a couple of sticks of their reject relay track for this project. I got a 4 foot section from them a couple of years ago for a home project.

dd

[stmtrolleyguy]

Seems to me that if you can get the caboose for only $50, and can get it moved with minimal cost, I'd just look at buying a section of panel track. It may be on the expensive side, but a good section of track will keep the caboose upright and on sturdy ground and footing for probably 40 + years.

[mudchicken]

If MiniWyo is going to assemble the track panel himself, I wanna be there in the peanut gallery LMAO and see how many spike maul handles he goes through. (spiking two rails to 24 ties (96-192+ spikes, adding 96 anchors as well)[:D]

[banghead][banghead][banghead]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

If MiniWyo is going to assemble the track panel himself, I wanna be there in the peanut gallery LMAO and see how many spike maul handles he goes through. (spiking two rails to 24 ties (96-192+ spikes, adding 96 anchors as well)[:D]

[banghead][banghead][banghead]

Dear mudchicken,
Anchors? You don't need anchors here--you need anchors where ties will move because of trains MOVING over them. And you don't need 24 ties, either. After all, what good will ties be underneath the center of the car? All he needs is some 75 lbs./ yd rail and about twelve ties--space them about three feet apart. If you go slowly unloading the caboose, it will be fine--we're not moving intermodals with SD70M's here, you know [:)]. Have you ever seen the early D&RG trackwork from the 1880's? That's what I'm thinking right now.

Sincerely,
Daniel Parks

[mudchicken]

(1) You try and pick that track panel up and move it any distance and you will discover why you want anchors in a hurry.

(2) 22-24 ties per 39 foot track length is fairly standard until you get on BART or some toy train light rail lines. MiniWyo was striving for something close to real and done properly. Half-*ssed trackwork under a caboose looks like hell.....And those ***ies are going to last how long? (granted Rock Springs is bone dry most of the time, you don't want to replace the foundation the car is sitting on in 10-20 years when the wook breaks up into little chunks of pseudo charcoal.

[Anonymous]

Dear Mudchicken,
I was thinking of if they built the track themselves--you are right, if you get panel track, then use it. You are right also though, that looks are important.

Sincerely,
Daniel Parks

[PNWRMNM]

Mudchicen,

I am sure they would run into trouble trying to set up A on track owned by B, as well they should.

I was thinking about track construction and new connections.

Mac