Has a GG1 ever been restored to running order?

[ben10ben]

The crash occured because the brake line between two of the cars, I believe #4 and 5, had been left closed. This meant that when the engineer applied the brakes, they only applied in the locomotive and the first four cars. Most likely the engineer cut the throttle down all the way before doing this and then applied the brakes for the scheduled stop. When the train didn't slow, he applied the emergency brakes, which really didn't have any further effect on the speed. Brakes on a few cars aren't very effective when you have 20+ heavy cars behind you still traveling at close to their original speed.

[choochin3]

GG1 4876 is in Baltimores Mt Clare Yard,but is in seriously bad condition.
It is allmost beyond any kind of restoration,she is really rusty,black paint peeling,
graffitied,broken pantographs, missing most wiring,and controls.
I think 4876 is a half step away from the scrappers torch.
Apparently the B&O museum does not care about this locomotive for it has
been sitting there for at least 10 years,and no effort to preserve her.[:(]

Carl T.

[Anonymous]

Having been a great fan of the old 611 and having rode it many times, and loving the experience, as well as most of the rail related attractions from Maine to NC I hate to rain on our parade, but one of the previous posts hit the spike right on the head.

It would be unlikely that any railroad would permit any vintage equipment like that to run their rails anymore because of the liability issue. I remember when the 611 wrecked down here in Chesapeake and the N&W owned the locomotive, the tracks, the cars and the court settlements. Soon after 611 ended up in a shed in Roanoke, probably forever. Plus these excursions can block revenue producing traffic as well....so no matter how these excursions run, they can cost the host railroad a lot of money with little in return....

[Fireflite]

The RR Museum of Pennsylvania has three GG1's in its collection. Number 4935 is on display in the rolling stock hall. The 4935 has had a complete cosmetic restoration to its as-built 1943 appearance, including very shiny coat of Brunswick Green paint with the original 5 gold stripes. It was first restored in 1977, and donated to the museum by Russell Wilcox in 1983. If you think you don't like Brunswick Green, pay this motor a visit and it'll make you a believer. (Note that an electric locomotive was a 'motor' to PRR man.)

The 4800, the prototype, aka "Old Rivits" is on display in the outside yard. It was owned by the Lancaster Chapter NHRS until donated to the museum in 2000, which explains why the 4935 had dibs in the spot inside. It was the only example with rivited rather than welded body, hence the nickname. I believe this engine is still wearing Tuscan Red with five stripes (somewhat faded now). I think most fans like this paint scheme best, though only 10 units ever wore it, and the 4800 wasn't one of them. Interestingly, this engine one of group re-geared for freight service. It went to PC, then Conrail, and wore both a unique Bicentennial scheme and Conrail Blue.

The museum's third GG1 is 4859, currently on display in the Amtrak station in Lancaster, PA. Read more at http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/about/roster/gg1.htm.

The 4877 was last operated by NJ Transit and was restored to Tuscan Red a few years before its retirement. Its now owned by the United Railway Historical Society, and is in storage in NJ Transit's Hoboken yard. Another unit is on display next to the fairgrounds in Syracuse, NY, and last I knew there was one at the National Railway Museum in St Louis.

Tom

[daveklepper]

I think that a very reliable and thorough restoration of a GG-1 with the money to do the right job, and paying Amtrak for some time in the Wilmington shops regardless of where the actual restoration is done, and a thorough inspection and test runs by Amtrak's own mechanical people would allow railfans to use the GG-1 in charter service in the Corridor. It will take millions, certainly, but it can be done, with enough money behind it, Amtrak will be glad for the added revenue. They are not in position of NS to turn down something that is sure to add to the bottom line. If the excursions were initially restricted to weekends, and the four track territory between Philadelphia and Newark, Amtrak would note that track capacity exists and flexibility at crossover points, so any breakdowns (and the overhaul and inspection work should make this impossible) would not seriously affect schedules service by them or SEPTA or NJT.

The rolling stock must be in similar fine condition. This can be use of weekend-surplus existing Amtrak, NJT, or SEPTA coaches or a fully restored classic PRR train. For the latter I would recommend first: rehabbing the ex-Congressional and ex-Senator Budd equipment of 1952. The coaches were built as beautifiul daytime recling seat coaches with about 20 double reversable seats in the main section, and about 14 facing inward semi-parlor seats in the smoking section at the end away from the single vestibule (platform). About 54 seats altogether. An etched glass partition divided the two sections, possbly without a door. The diners and parlors matched. And there were blunt-end parlor observations at the rear. Much of this equipment was reseated with high-density commuter-like seating, high-back but non-reclining, (some cars non-reversable!) by Amtrak when equipped for head-end power and used in Clocker (NY-Phila) and Keystone service, where some may still operatre. Some is at tourist operations.

Another possibility would be genuine PRR smooth-side lightweight equipment or other equipment that can be painted to look like the genuine article in the PRR tuscan red and gold stripes scheme.

And a third possibility would be classic railroad roof PRR P-70 coaches with a few six-wheel-truck heavywieght parlors and diner in tuscan red.

All this can be found in existing tourist operations if one looks hard enough. The PRR heavyweight parlors last saw service in the LIRR weekend Montauk and Greenpoint trains.

[Modelcar]

Tom: I must have done my visit {summer of '83}, right before the 4800 was moved outside at the Pennsylvania Museum....The place was almost new then and I'm almost certain the photos I took of the GG-1...{inside the building}, are of "old rivets".......
....Welcome to the forum.

[Anonymous]

For Train Junky29 and Roger38

Agree fully with you. My thoughts were just made up quickly. I am sure that IF I were on the board I could come up with atleast 100 projects to work on.

Thanks for your imput. Don't hold your breath waiting to read about me being appointed. Bush has had 6 years to get his act together to do it and I am a card carrying Republician.

***

[Anonymous]

Folks, don´t forget the GG1 in Green Bay, Wisc. Standing close to a BIG BOY!.
It´s most unlikely that either one of them can run again. At least under own power.
But I like the idea that a GG1 is "pushed around". This would come at least a bit
close to old times, at least to see a GG1 running (or rather moving).
For such special trips, the problem of the small cabs should be "forgotten"
since this would be no regular(=often) trips.

[Eric Stuart]

Hmm - are your unions that strict? Would they not agree to the occasional exceptional run? - we're not talking about frequent operations, I presume.
One other possibility: don't the DOT have a test track somewhere, that would be off-line for TU activities. Or has that gone?
I realise all these restrictions would make the expence of rehab less viable, but ....
Just some ideas!
Eric in the UK

[Anonymous]

Really, since volunteers would probably be running it, the Union thing only comes into play with the station you're going to in Washington.

[martin.knoepfel]

In a book I got for Christmas, the GG1 is mentioned. The author writes the GG1s have been sidelined becaus Penn Central changed juice (in the Northeast Corridor) from 11kV/25 Hz to 25 kV 60 Hz.

Is that really true? I always thought, parts of the NEC still run with the 11kv/25Hz-system, and the PCB in the transformers plus increasing unreliability were the causes for the sidelining of the GG1's

[daveklepper]

Answering the question:

Boston - New Haven 60Hz 25000V

New Haven - New Rochelle (Metro North): 60Hz 12500V

New Rochelle - Harold Tower (Suynnyside) 60Hz 25000V

Harold Tower - Washington Union Station (the PRR tracks) 25Hz 11000V

A restored GG1 can run between New York and Washington, but not east-north of New York.

GG1's required more maintenance than the E60's and AEN7's that replaced them.

They were last used in New Jersey Transit service, NY-South Amboy.

I believe Rahway (junction of JerseyCoast line with NEC) to S. Amboy and beyond to Rewd Bank or Sea Girt is now 60Hz, 12500V prohibiting GG1 use.

[Anonymous]

The GG1 that crashed into Union Station and fell into the basement was the 4876. This was one of the last GG1's that operated for New Jersey Transit. This motor still survives somewhere in a Baltimore area railyard and it's future is bleak. From what I understand it was supposed to go the the Baltimore RR Museum but they did not want it. I wish I had the room.

[ndbprr]

The PRR used 50 cycle power that it generated itself primarily at Conowengo Dam on the Susquehana river. The idea was that people couldn't steal the power becasue it makes lights visibly flicker. AMtrak changed over to the new voltages around the time of the AEM-7.

[emdgp92]

I was in the cab of the GG1 in Altoona during the PCRRHS convention in 2004. I felt it was a bit cramped and very dark. I knew that Strasburg had 2 G's there...but I didn't know that they also had the one in Lancaster. Did any GG1s get painted in Amtrak's MoW scheme? I might have seen orange ones around Philadelphia years ago....but the memory is a little fuzzy there.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ndbprr

The PRR used 50 cycle power that it generated itself primarily at Conowengo Dam on the Susquehana river. The idea was that people couldn't steal the power becasue it makes lights visibly flicker. AMtrak changed over to the new voltages around the time of the AEM-7.

I did not know about that little tidbit. Thanks!

[tmcc man]

I saw the GG1 at the Pennsylvania Railway museum a few year ago. That is on heck of a Loco and an engineering feat.

[rrnut282]

The website posted earlier listing GG1's did not mention #4882 at the NYC National RR Museum in Elkhart, IN. It is painted black with the PC "mating worms" logo. The picture makes it look in fair shape, but I believe it is stored outside an the photo may be old.

[daveklepper]

Not 50 cycle power. It was 25 cycle, or accurately 25 cycles per second.

Many railfans assumed it was 50 cycles per second because the characteristic noise is 50 cycles per second since their are both a positive and a negative peak in power (peaks) every single cycle, so you get two peaks of power every 1/25th of a second, making the noise 50 Hz even though the current is 25 Hz.

50 Hz is the general frequency used in Europe, including most modern electrications, just as 60 Hz is used in the USA.

The old AC electrifications in Europe, with lots remaining in Switzerland and Austria, are 16-2/3 Hz

Hz stands for Herz, a pioneer scientist in ac power generation, and is an international standard for a short way of saying cycles per second.

The New Haven generated its own 25 Hz power at Cos Cob.

Today all electric railways use purchased power. I believe some of the old 60Hz to 25 Hz rotary converters are still in use by Amtrak, but most substations use efficient rectifier-inverter electronic converters.

Regarding the North Jersey Coast electrification. I rode it many times when it was 25 Hz and used by GG-1's. (When I was at Fort Monmouth in 1951 and 1954, K-4's still hauled the trains form Penn Station south of South Amboy.) I had the pleasure of riding an MU trains which ran under the 25 Hz catenary to Rahway, and then the 60 Hz to Red Bank. I understand the electrification now goes beyond Red Bank, but someone should tell me how far: To Long Branch, to Sea Girt, or all the way to Bay Head Junction?

[tree68]

I was in that area a couple of years ago and the line was electified at least to Long Branch. Didn't chase the line, so can't say any more than that.

[spankybird]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrnut282

The website posted earlier listing GG1's did not mention #4882 at the NYC National RR Museum in Elkhart, IN. It is painted black with the PC "mating worms" logo. The picture makes it look in fair shape, but I believe it is stored outside an the photo may be old.

I was at Elkhart several years ago and the GG1 is outside


[:D]

[daveklepper]

Looks great for a locomotive stored outside!

[Anonymous]

No Amtrak GG1 was ever painted for MOW. There were several E44's painted Silver and black for MOW. Can anyone confirm if the E44's ever ran for Amtrak?

[martin.knoepfel]

Thanks for the answer daveklepper.

Do you know why there is a change in tension between New Haven and New Rochelle? It would be simpler, in my opinion, to have the whole line electrified with the same system. Has it to do with the system from New Haven into GCT?

[StillGrande]

QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed

[My son said there is one at the RR Museum of Penn in Strasburg PE. He sent me a T-shirt from their with the GG-1 on it in PRR colors.

Originally posted by CHPENNSYLVANIA
[

There are 2 there. One inside in display condition. One outside rusting away.

Dewey "Facts are meaningless; you can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true! Facts, schmacks!" - Homer Simpson "The problem is there are so many stupid people and nothing eats them."

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