Train horns. I am VERY ANGRY!

[Anonymous]

What the[censored] is wrong with people? If you don't want to hear the [censored] horn, then move away from the tracks. I knew that some people were stupid, but not this stupid. The horn's are used for safety. If I was an engineer I would blow the horn more often. Asking an engineer not to blow the horn is like asking a cow to stop mooing: It makes no sense

[Anonymous]

She's an idiot!
When she approaches you, suggest that she contact the railroad, for a cab ride.
Let her see what the crews see at the crossings these self centered NIMBY's want silenced.
I live in a valley, and at night theres a certain reassuring feeling I get when I hear the NS ans CSX horns echo off the ridges.
Jimmy

[trainster1073]

I Understand What you are saying, But have you noticed, If that happens and they get the railroad to stop blowing there horns through town they have at least 50 more safety rules for that area. Plus if someone gets into an accident they sue the RR!!!! That's so stupid, I totaly agree with Allan

Dustin

[BentnoseWillie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by brent777Not sure how it works but in Canada, towns can pass bylaws or whatever and have the railroad not blow at crossings.

Not quite that simple. Municipalities do not have the power to unilaterally impose whistle bans. If they wish a ban they must first go through consultations with teh public, the road authority (if the crossing is over a road under provincial jurisdiction such as a main highway) and all relevant organizations such as emergency services. Then they must ensure that the crossing protection meets Transport Canada's guidelines for a whistle ban. After that they apply to the railway for a ban, and the railway arranges for Transport Canada to inspect the relevant crossings and approve a ban in that location.

In certain circumstances either the railway or TC may deny the request on safety grounds, even if the crossing meets the spec - in that case they have to explain their reasons. Furthermore, there is no requirement for the railway to pay for upgrading crossing protection to meet a municipality's demand for a whistle ban.

See http://www.tc.gc.ca/railway/guideline/eliminatingwhistling.htm for all the details. This has changed recently - the last time I had looked this up the municipality had to negotiate with Transport Canada, now they can go directly to the railway.

[Glen Ellyn]

I can see her point. Having to listen to train horns at night can be bothersom. But still, the safety concern is still out their. How many tracks are at the grade crossing?

[BigJim]

From reading this thread it doesn't seem to me that it has been made crystal clear that all of this horn blowing is a result of an FRA decision. So don't go blaming the RR's.

As an engineer, I can see both sides of the arguement.
You can compare a road crossing to a lock, in that the lock is only there to keep the honest people out. At a road crossing, I don't care how much horn blowing you do, there seems like there is always someone that just can't wait to get across.
We had a town that over the years went from limited blowing (none between 9pm to 6am), to no blowing, to blowing all of the time, to no blowing. The crossing was protected at various times by crossbucks, then crossbucks with flashing lights, then a combination of crossbucks with flashing lights and gates, then all gated. Unfortunatly we had a volunteer fireman responding to a call ignore the flashing lights and horn blowing. He is no longer of this world. After the town went all gated they received an OK for a quite zone. There hasn't been and accident since. I haven't even had a "close call" there.
Knock on wood, I haven't hit an automobile yet on a road crossing. I have had "close calls" too numerous to mention and all at crossings where the horn was being blown.!!!
As an engineer what do I think of all of this ranting and raving about horn blowing? It doesn't make any difference. Just like at a road crossing, there are those that just can't wait, even for as little as ten seconds. Those are the people that are going to get themselves and others killed for no more reason than to be a few minutes farther up the road.
I like the quite zones. I can understand where the lady is coming from. It's that much less noise that I have to deal with. I wish we had whistles instead of horns. I wish all of our horns could be graduated, instead of an on/off impersonnal BLAAAT blast.
Quite zones or not, people are still going to be stupid enough to take a chance at a road crossing. Horn blowing DOES NOT and WILL NOT stop that car or truck. As a matter of fact, I like the guys idea about the car slapping the driver in the face when the horn is sounded.
And one more thing, you would be surprised at how many people that I've come upon walking along the tracks that will just keep walking after receiving a warning from the horn! People are just unbelievable. They simply just can't wait to be a target!
BTW, to those of you that keep talking about fines being levied for horn blowing in Quite Zones. Not going to happen. The rule states that the horn can be blown in case of emergencies or warnings such as people or autos on the tracks.

[Anonymous]

As a locomotive engineer this lady can shove it. Let her be the one that takes a life at a non-blow crossing. There are still idiots that are getting hit at crossings where I blow my whistle so you can imagine what will happen at no-blow crossings. I still will never get out of my mind the unfortunate souls who I have hit and they have died. This is something I have to live with the rest of my life. For me I will keep on sounding off loud and clear for I do not wi***o get scared again. Unless you have been in my situation before you have no idea what it is like for someone to kill themselves with my train. I fear every crossing I go across because I know it will happen again because someone, someday will not stop, look and listen.

[BigJim]

QUOTE: There are still idiots that are getting hit at crossings

Blow or no-blow you still have to contend with the idiots and those that don't pay attention. The idiots don't care about the flashing red lights or the sound or the ten million candle power head and ditch lights. Nothing you or I can do will stop them.

Now maybe if the police would have the time and manpower to start arresting these idiots, maybe the rest of the world would start paying attention. Maybe they need to go back to school to learn that red means STOP!

Maury,
You talk like you have hit quite a few people at road crossings in your time. Have you ever had someone just lay down in front of you to let you be the instrument in their suicide? If so did your horn make them get back up? Mine didn't. Am I sorry for the boy and his family? Yes, I am. Do I let it keep me awake at night or allow it to give me nightmares? No, I don't! Why? Because there wasn't a thing that I could do about it!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by brazos87


If by chance this woman was around with steam, I'm sure she complained about the smoke!![:D]

Heh hehe...

After the last of my parents passed away a few years ago, I had trouble selling the house I grew up in for a decent price (local economy)...So, rather than make 2 house payments, I moved into my childhood homestead.

I'm a non foaming rail fan, Although I like trains ...I'm not one of those zealots who will r take rails side of every debate because they think doing so makes them cool or appear 'patriotic to the cause"...I see that rail is fully capable of being in the "wrong" on as many issues as it is on the right.

Train Horns are MUCH louder than they were in the late 1960's...MUCH louder.

Maybe that is good for crossing safety, but it ALSO means that this lady IS NOT AUTOMATICALLY in the wrong, just because she chooses to oppose the choo choo.

She may very well have some basis of legitimacy to her claim.

My house is (roughly) 1/2 mile from the nearest grade crossing, and esperially if the guy running the train becomes an idiot and REALLY LAYS ON THE HORN...it gets very annoying, and some of the engineers sound like they are playing with the horn for the first time in their lives, ..like some little kid or something.

Heh, if I lived right next to the track in those instances, I'd be pretty sore too.

[ValleyX]

I think the whistles are louder, too, Gates, but as far as becoming an idiot and laying on the whistle, that could be me. I lay into that whistle and that's my only defense against those idiots on the highway. Oh yeah, I do have the bell going, too.

Wish you'd got that railroad job, you could have gotten another perspective.

[Mookie]

Two observations.

1 - so many of the people going around the gates - with the engineeers blowing the whistle at them - have children in the car....

2 - the new GEVO - has a lower pitched whistle. At least the one we heard did. It doesn't seem quite as shrill - still loud - but not so high pitched. Anyone else notice?

[Modelcar]

...From a distance to the crossing of a half mile or so it makes a great bit of difference which way the wind is blowing to how loud the sound of the horn is out that far...We live about 3/4th of a mile away and wind direction can really influence the loudness. Train frequency is another item for most routes and surely people can stand the sound of a whistle occasionally knowing the reason it is blowing. I simply can't imagine not blowing a warning sound at a RR crossing as a train approaches.

[BigJim]

QUOTE: I lay into that whistle and that's my only defense against those idiots on the highway

I still question why you think the horn is your defense? As I have said before, simply blowing the horn is not going to stop ANYTHING! It may startle some people to attention that were just tooling along with their head up their butt, but, those sound waves won't slow the determined "crossing crasher" one bit.

Why must some engineers show their lack of musical intelligence playing "Wake the Dead" on their horns in the middle of the night with not a soul (ghoul) around?

Then, what are you going to do with the idiots that run into your train AFTER you have occupied the crossing. Don't laugh, it happens every year.

There are more than two sides to this problem. The answer is not whether we blow for crossings or not. Again, I've seen "quite Zones" that are infinitly safer than those that I blow for.

The answer to the problem is in not being so afflicted with "Tunnel Vison" that you cannot see the other persons point of view!

The answer has to be in the education of drivers and the enforcement of laws relating to the running of road crossings while lights and gates are activated. We've probably all heard it since grade school...
STOP...LOOK...LISTEN

[ValleyX]

It's like this, Big Jim. I don't disagree with what you say about quiet zones but we don't have any on my territory. As for my only defense, I stand by that, you can't stop a determined gate crasher or a moron who thinks it can't happen to them but if I've blown the whistle, that's all I can do and I've done my part. I see that as my role in crossing safety and if the public chooses to ignore the whistle, they do so at their own peril.

[tree68]

We have the same problem in emergency services. When we are running lights and siren, people either ignore you or do really stupid things. My "favorite" is coming up behind two vehicles on the highway - the car in front pulls over (as they should) and the one behind them passes...

Much like with the railroads, if we have an accident involving an emergency vehicle running in emergency mode, the first question is "was the siren activated?" As long as there is the danger of some rushed yuppie entering the crossing, the horns need to blow, even if the driver can't hear them because he's got his favorite tunes turned up so loud. As was said, it's the only defense the engineer has...

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX


Wish you'd got that railroad job, you could have gotten another perspective.

I fully appreciate your side as well.. I'm sure you see some stupid stunts, and know some co-workers who will carry emotional scars from peoples carelessness at crossings.

And, I have zero empathy for people who try and cheat the crossing

I always enjoy seeing a crossing go into action, it means I get to stop and do some train watching. I've even been known to slow down in hopes that an approaching train will activate the crossing in time for me to stop.

I just chose to play devils advocate on this thread, as I have seen this as well as similar threads turn into serial bashing threads with (potentially) inaccurate assumptions based upon "why did they buy a house next to the tracks if they didn't
wanna hear train horns? etc.

because there are a few variables that have changed from the rail side of the equation, over the past several decades.

I'll tell ya what I've noticed that surprises me, I like to take lots of walks, and tend to walk towards the old Wabash, with the earlier mentioned grade crossing being west of me.

I walk north towards the track, and OFTEN my first indication of an eastbound freight will be to see it rolling past me, obviously having already gone through the nearby crossing without blowing it's horn.

Not a complaint, per se...just that when I know a train is coming, I'll usually walk to a vantage with a good view. But when they don't blow first, and I see it just roll on by without giving any chance to prepare, it makes me wonder "how'd this happen"?

[Junctionfan]

I like those horns on the ex Conrail units that give a high pitch squeel before they sound the true pitch. Those definately get my attention as they are wierd and menacing sounding.

[zardoz]

Not to sound too much like a callous old man, but during my 20 years running trains, and 9 fatal incidents, I developed a rather cynical attitude towards the people that all the posters above refer to.

I long ago stopped being nervous or afraid of having an accident. I certainly never wanted one, but I stopped worrying about when it would happen again. I long ago stopped getting the adrenaline rush due to a 'near-miss', or even after an incident. It became just another part of the job. Sure, the aftermath of an incident are usually messy, and then there is the paperwork, and the possibility of having to appear in court when the moron's survivors try to sue. But as I said, it became just another (unpleasant) part of the job.

It's a bad enough part of the job that even 20 years after my first incident, I can still vividly remember the sights, sounds, and smells associated with the event.

I actually have a certain amount of anger towards these imbiciles that get themselves killed! Why should I have to be haunted by recurring visions and memories years after an event? I did nothing to deserve that sentence. Perhaps train crews should begin to counter-sue the survivors, seeking compensation for "suffering and anxiety" caused by the actions of the deceased. If they can sue us (the railroad) for imagined wrongs, then we shoud have the right to also sue.

And in my day we did not have "grief counsellors" or any of that stuff. We just picked up the pieces, hosed off the front of the unit, and went on our way. Nowdays the crews get up to three days off for "recovery"! Sheesh! I wish I had got three days off every time I hit someone!

My suggestion to the current train crew/engineers out there: Realize that there is nothing you can do about what happens. If you are following all the rules and laws, then your conscience should be clear.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.

Just tonight this woman walked up to my dads house telling him what and why she showed up to his home. I understand that she lives just up the street from his place real near the 23rd street grade crossing. she was asking neighbors to sign a petition to stop Trains from blowing their horns into town. I am for the safety of others who need these horns to warn drivers the a train is a coming.
As far as I am concerned with this,I do not and will not sign any Petition. I will give that person a word or two. Of corse you all know what will happen when or if the RR's where to be forced to silence their horns across this country. I am very angry that some people will stoop to this level to try something this dumb.
And for one thing,I do not and will not sign any Petition to ban any trains from stop blowing their horns,PERIOD. Id like to tell people like that,You don't like the sound of the horns,then get the hell out of town.
Allan.

I just found out recently that in Austin ,Texas... Stupid, rich, treehugging people bought land and built half million dollar home near the Austin Texas Central Rail Line.
After only 2 weeks after the building of the houses the people had a city ordinace for NO!! train horns within a certain area. This started when The Railroads 2-8-2 #786 was wyeing for the Twilight Flyer around 10 pm and had to blow its wistle to cross a Very Crowded Crosing. But this upseted Mr. Treehuger so he got City Ordinace.

What's gona happen is that a car gona get hit or kill someone and the Railline is gona get sued and end up paying lots of valuble money that could be used for the Organization

STUPID STUPID People[soapbox]

[Anonymous]

And its their own fault for buying land near a railline
they should know better

Another thing... the American Truck Driver is sick of the Stupid DOT laws..
THE WORST IS NO ENGINE BRAKE

Stupid people!!!

This is AMERICA!!!
if you dont like it get out[soapbox]

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz


Perhaps train crews should begin to counter-sue the survivors, seeking compensation for "suffering and anxiety" caused by the actions of the deceased. If they can sue us (the railroad) for imagined wrongs, then we shoud have the right to also sue.

I like it. It will be quite a shake-up for the "victim" community when a "victim" has to pay for the pain and suffering they caused, which should be easily documentable.

Hopefully Gabe will weigh in on the factors and timing that would be involved in such a suit. Somewhere in there would have to be a determination that the "victim" caused the accident.

[Anonymous]

There are 6 Crossings here in town. The first one is at river road then 10th,12th,16th,23rd& then Hwy91. Back in the early 90's the CNW installed a new BRIDGE at 19th street. Because of the new overpass at 19th 17th had to be closed because the Track was up too high for a crossing. Plus not to say that 17th street here in Blair had one of those old Wig Wag Crossing Signals. I mean there now only 6 Active live RR Crossings in Town out of 8 and people are still complaining! "GIVE ME A BREAK" (Eyes rolling). I mean you go to maps.google.com and you will see that the RR did what it could to control the complainers,even that seemed now that,that didn't work.
I just don't no anymore. I love to hear the Train Horns. Allan.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Two observations.

1 - so many of the people going around the gates - with the engineeers blowing the whistle at them - have children in the car....

2 - the new GEVO - has a lower pitched whistle. At least the one we heard did. It doesn't seem quite as shrill - still loud - but not so high pitched. Anyone else notice?

Yes I have Mookie. All of the UP's ES45AC CTE's have the low pitch horn blow tone. As for the SD70ACe's,Well that's another thing[:D]. Those suckers are LOUD!
Allan.

[Anonymous]

i live verry close to the tracks i have had times were the train horn will make me jump out of bed from a sound sleep it sounds like thay driveing right into my room . but hey i know its for safty and i really dont mind

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Two observations.

1 - so many of the people going around the gates - with the engineeers blowing the whistle at them - have children in the car....

2 - the new GEVO - has a lower pitched whistle. At least the one we heard did. It doesn't seem quite as shrill - still loud - but not so high pitched. Anyone else notice?

Yes I have Mookie. All of the UP's ES45AC CTE's have the low pitch horn blow tone. As for the SD70ACe's,Well that's another thing[:D]. Those suckers are LOUD!
Allan.

I am "learning again" - so need to ask......

Have seen BNSF 7680, 7682, 7687, 7719 and 7749. Are these GEVO's and what is their actual "name" - see all Allan's #'s above.

[%-)]

[FThunder11]

that lady is an idiot

[vsmith]

Its a sad truth that the vast majority of People are idiots, plain and clear.

Need proof that no one pays attention to their surroundings?

Out here on the left coast in beautifull Orange County, galactic center of stupidity, thier were 2 airports, one commercial, one military. The commercial airport was named for some cowboy named John Wayne, Its near the ocean, more importantly, it near verrrry expensive homes near the ocean. The residents of these very expensive homes were tired of these bothersome jets taking off and just spoiling thier afternoon game of tennis with Biff and Buffy, so they complained to their local city councelman, ***ed and whinned is more appropriate term, and to their state assemblyman, and their congressman and senator, and Lo! They get new flight regulations for takeoffs that require pilots to take off at the steepest allowable angle (to get as high as possible before crossing over our dear oppressed Neighbors) and at the lowest throttle position possible (as to be as quite as possible not to disturb Buffy as she gets a facial), all so the wealthy residents of Newport can enjoy the peice and quite we all know they deserve, because they're rich, and the rich shouldnt have to put up with things like noise, even when they knowingly buy near a busy commercial airport. Un-named FAA spokesmen once commented in an article about this that it was a wonder to him no aircraft has ever stalled on takeoff due to these loony flight patterns and actually crashed into the plush nieghborhoods of Newport.

Now the Military base had been here since the 1930's , El Toro was a major airbase for the US Marines and the US Navy, and its was content with being located way out in the farmland boonies for decades, but then came the 80's with rabid housing development, and an unending appeitite for new lands with big McMansions on them. SO in the 80's the greedy developers, start inching closer towards the gates of El Toro, to the point where they were AT the gates of El Toro by the early 90's. You can see where I'm going cant you....

People start buying these homes, I'm convinced some were bought sight unseen by people who were "to busy" to be bothered with an actual visit, and these young families move in. Either some were complete Idiots or were just clueless morons who couldnt comprehend the meaning of the Phrase "theres an airbase next door" So guess what happens.....

ROOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

F-18 at 120 decibles! What a great alarm clock! It 8 am folks !!! were open for business!!!! Welcome to the neighborhood!!!!

Within days, sometimes within HOURS of moving in, the complaints start, "Oh its too loud! " .."What, they actually fly planes out of that airbase" No buddy its just there to scare the Soviets, ya moron!

Well long story short, more morons oblivious to the fact that an airbase means jets, and jets mean noise, continue to poor blindly into the area around El Toro and continue to complain to their congressman, assemblyman, councilman, hair stylist...(Boy it was reallllly fun to be around there during Gulf War 1, Whooosh!) But when the 1st round of base closures came up in the late 90's, surprise! guess which base was curiously on the shortlist, El Toro was to be closed down, and before the announcement was even finished the greedy developers were lining up to carve up the base. The Navy said it would give up the base when it was dam good and ready, there was serious talk of converting it into another desperatley needed commercial air hub in south Orange County, but the NIMBY's and whinners saw to it that that would never happen ( I guess they really enjoy that 3 hr commute in traffic to LAX), Slick developers then proposed "limited" commercial development around a "Great Park" proposal, the park would rival Central Park in NY as a "gathering space for all of OC" the voters ate it up and approved it, but its been a few years now,the "Great Park" proposal is now the "Small Park", smaller than some regional parks and may get even smaller as time goes on, and the developers have the vast lions share of the base already marked out for huge housing and commercial developements, ( they still have to deal with this little thing called soil contamination) and the Voters allow it to happen without a whine!

More traffic, more congestion, more smog, and they just grin like idiots.[:(]

[Anonymous]

I never thought much about loud train horns till this thread. I live about a block and a half from the Sunset Line here in Texas, so I thought I'd try to listen for myself and see how loud and offensive the horns could be. And I haven't really noticed it that much! Sure, it's loud for a few seconds, but the train keeps moving on, and with the house closed up and the air conditioner going, it's almost unnoticeable. I have noticed when I'm downtown and the sound is bouncing off the buildings it gets kinda loud, but like I said, it goes away in a couple of seconds. I doubt anyone, especially with a silly petition like BNSF mentioned, is going to get much done to get trains to stop blowing their horns. Really, it's kinda comical that she tried!

mike

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mehrlich

but the train keeps moving on, and with the house closed up and the air conditioner going, it's almost unnoticeable.
mike

Good point you bring up Mike. EVERYTHING is relative... A person too poor to be able to afford airconditioning, is likely to have to keep their windows open, and be bitter over that to begin with. Just like those who cannot afford tennis lessons with the buffster.

So, what do they do? Why the American pass time of course. "EXTERNALIZE"...make an association between the actual origin of their angst and something completely beyond their control, and claim to be a 'victim' because clearly the CLAIMED cause is beyond their control.

glad you btought this up [}:)]

[coborn35]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Two observations.

1 - so many of the people going around the gates - with the engineeers blowing the whistle at them - have children in the car....

2 - the new GEVO - has a lower pitched whistle. At least the one we heard did. It doesn't seem quite as shrill - still loud - but not so high pitched. Anyone else notice?

Yes I have Mookie. All of the UP's ES45AC CTE's have the low pitch horn blow tone. As for the SD70ACe's,Well that's another thing[:D]. Those suckers are LOUD!
Allan.

The GP30's had some of the loudest horns I have heard. Kind of like a high pitched whine and BAM! Man those are loud!