Religious fanatics

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by n2mopac

First, I'm not sure what we generally mean here by "religious fanatic." If you mean the type of "religion" that promotes violence under the heading, "believe as I do or die," Then I believe there is no place for that in the world. That gives God a bad name under any regligious heading. These people, however, make up less than 1/2% of any religion I am aware of in the world.

If, however, we mean a person of deep religious conviction or one who is theologically conservative, then I must point out a couple of things. First, has anyone noticed that while this thread has contained numerous rantings agains religious people, there have been virtually no responses by people defending religious expression. I find this interesting. I believe it is evidence of a great paranoya that exists in American culture by non-religious people that seem to believe that there is a religious conservative lurking around the corner waiting to pounce on them.

I also must say, speaking as a theological conservative myself and coming from a family, community, and religious background of conservatives, that I would venture to gress that most of those ranting about the attempted oppression by religious people of the non-religious world have never personally know or perhaps even met a real religious conservative themselves. They express only a view of religious people as it is distorted and twisted my the media and the extreme opinions of those who seek to destroy religious conservativism. I think we all know how accurate such depicitons of any person or group can be. The descriptions and accusations I see and here even in this thread bear little or no resemblance to the people I know and love now and throughout my lifetime. I say, if you're going to rant, get some first-hand knowledge of what you're talking about first.

Ron

P.S. Has anyone botherd to notice that the originator of this post has never bothered to chime in again. And has anyone bothered to go back and look for the alleged "gospel preaching" that he accused others of. I went searching and I could find NONE. Y'all who so hate to discuss "religion" but have chimed into this thread have been had. I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you.

There is an entry on freedom: ref. establishment clause U.S. Constitution Bill of Rights Admendment I. Mr. Moderator, please let there be order in the Session Room - PL.

[chad thomas]

I also noted he didn't post his e-mail, and has no info in his bio (big suprise eh') [8D]

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by n2mopac

P.S. Has anyone botherd to notice that the originator of this post has never bothered to chime in again. And has anyone bothered to go back and look for the alleged "gospel preaching" that he accused others of. I went searching and I could find NONE. Y'all who so hate to discuss "religion" but have chimed into this thread have been had. I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you.

Yes....I think several folks have recognized this.....

he was trolling, trolling, trolling...

I'm feeling a bit musical today.....

[dharmon]

The inquistion..
....here we go.....
....the inquisition ....
....what a show.......

chime in if you know this one......

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rich747us

OH COOL! I GOT MY SECOND STAR WITH THAT LAST POST! WOO-HOO! [:D]

Praise be to (enter the deity of choice here)!!!!

[rich747us]

OH COOL! I GOT MY SECOND STAR WITH THAT LAST POST! WOO-HOO! [:D]

[rich747us]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by rich747us

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

In the beginning there was the B&O. Commerce looked at the B&O and decided it was good.

If this keeps up, I am going to have to talk about the concept of the original sin of corporate raiders and how they were punished with the Granger railraods.

Perhaps the story about how the libertarians divided the "ICC" and allowed the railroads to walk through to the promised land of deregulation and the walls came crashing in as truckers attempted to follow?

Gabe

Are you going to get to the part about resting on the seventh day......so Penn Central was formed?

And how about the part where UP offers MP a bite of apple....

What about the story of the building of the Arc? The arc better known as the Big New Santa Fe? Ummm...er....I mean, Burlington Northern Santa Fe LOL [:D]

Yeah!....the whole big rain thing....NOAA's ark

and wasn't that the original concept of MUing....

Oh, and lets not forget the story of CSX's King Herod......uhh...I mean, John Snow! [(-D]

[n2mopac]

First, I'm not sure what we generally mean here by "religious fanatic." If you mean the type of "religion" that promotes violence under the heading, "believe as I do or die," Then I believe there is no place for that in the world. That gives God a bad name under any regligious heading. These people, however, make up less than 1/2% of any religion I am aware of in the world.

If, however, we mean a person of deep religious conviction or one who is theologically conservative, then I must point out a couple of things. First, has anyone noticed that while this thread has contained numerous rantings agains religious people, there have been virtually no responses by people defending religious expression. I find this interesting. I believe it is evidence of a great paranoya that exists in American culture by non-religious people that seem to believe that there is a religious conservative lurking around the corner waiting to pounce on them.

I also must say, speaking as a theological conservative myself and coming from a family, community, and religious background of conservatives, that I would venture to gress that most of those ranting about the attempted oppression by religious people of the non-religious world have never personally know or perhaps even met a real religious conservative themselves. They express only a view of religious people as it is distorted and twisted my the media and the extreme opinions of those who seek to destroy religious conservativism. I think we all know how accurate such depicitons of any person or group can be. The descriptions and accusations I see and here even in this thread bear little or no resemblance to the people I know and love now and throughout my lifetime. I say, if you're going to rant, get some first-hand knowledge of what you're talking about first.

Ron

P.S. Has anyone botherd to notice that the originator of this post has never bothered to chime in again. And has anyone bothered to go back and look for the alleged "gospel preaching" that he accused others of. I went searching and I could find NONE. Y'all who so hate to discuss "religion" but have chimed into this thread have been had. I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rich747us

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

In the beginning there was the B&O. Commerce looked at the B&O and decided it was good.

If this keeps up, I am going to have to talk about the concept of the original sin of corporate raiders and how they were punished with the Granger railraods.

Perhaps the story about how the libertarians divided the "ICC" and allowed the railroads to walk through to the promised land of deregulation and the walls came crashing in as truckers attempted to follow?

Gabe

Are you going to get to the part about resting on the seventh day......so Penn Central was formed?

And how about the part where UP offers MP a bite of apple....

What about the story of the building of the Arc? The arc better known as the Big New Santa Fe? Ummm...er....I mean, Burlington Northern Santa Fe LOL [:D]

Yeah!....the whole big rain thing....NOAA's ark

and wasn't that the original concept of MUing....

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

I thought MP was the part about the snake,
and SP was the part about the apple?

Or was Katy the snake part?

[:D]

So asks Miss Katy....

Is that a branch line in your pocket or are you just happy to see me???[}:)]

[n2mopac]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

So, quertion to the religiously inclined,...what are you gonna do when life is discovered on some other planet??

The book of genesis is pretty specific about earth being the sole gig in the heavens,...so how wiill you explain that away? [}:)]

Perhaps you should actually READ the book of Genesis and point this out to us, because as one with a Masters degree in theology I am certain that Genesis is completely silent on what may or may not be on other planets. Personally, I have serious doubts that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe, but I certainly do not discount the possibility and if it were to be discovered it would not shake my faith in God in the least. If He could create life on this planet, why could He no do so on another as well???

Ron

[rich747us]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

In the beginning there was the B&O. Commerce looked at the B&O and decided it was good.

If this keeps up, I am going to have to talk about the concept of the original sin of corporate raiders and how they were punished with the Granger railraods.

Perhaps the story about how the libertarians divided the "ICC" and allowed the railroads to walk through to the promised land of deregulation and the walls came crashing in as truckers attempted to follow?

Gabe

Are you going to get to the part about resting on the seventh day......so Penn Central was formed?

And how about the part where UP offers MP a bite of apple....

What about the story of the building of the Arc? The arc better known as the Big New Santa Fe? Ummm...er....I mean, Burlington Northern Santa Fe LOL [:D]

[edblysard]

I thought MP was the part about the snake,
and SP was the part about the apple?

Or was Katy the snake part?

[:D]

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

In the beginning there was the B&O. Commerce looked at the B&O and decided it was good.

If this keeps up, I am going to have to talk about the concept of the original sin of corporate raiders and how they were punished with the Granger railraods.

Perhaps the story about how the libertarians divided the "ICC" and allowed the railroads to walk through to the promised land of deregulation and the walls came crashing in as truckers attempted to follow?

Gabe

Are you going to get to the part about resting on the seventh day......so Penn Central was formed?

And how about the part where UP offers MP a bite of apple....

[Anonymous]

I think you right fellas, Lets set this one out for a while, the subject is tending to be; -------- a little over heated

[Anonymous]

Are we done yet?[:D]

[tatans]

ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss that's the sound of the fuse burning before this whole forum explodes with every reply getting just a little wilder than the one before, now you know how most wars were started over religion, scarey eh? ( I guess those were the "good wars") as you can see this forum will never end.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

In the beginning there was the B&O. Commerce looked at the B&O and decided it was good.

If this keeps up, I am going to have to talk about the concept of the original sin of corporate raiders and how they were punished with the Granger railraods.

Perhaps the story about how the libertarians divided the "ICC" and allowed the railroads to walk through to the promised land of deregulation and the walls came crashing in as truckers attempted to follow?

Gabe

Hehe, as Edwin Gould said to Samuel Fordyce on October 31 1898: "Forgive my Father, he knows not what he has done".....[8]

[Anonymous]

Go Gabe.. I am all ears.


Come to think of it... I thought this was a railroad forum?

Even thou I shall walk in the valley of Pennsy, I shall fear no diesel.

[tree68]

Gabe - Everybody is blowing of a little steam. It'll pass and we'll be discussing arcane railroad subjects again...

[gabe]

In the beginning there was the B&O. Commerce looked at the B&O and decided it was good.

If this keeps up, I am going to have to talk about the concept of the original sin of corporate raiders and how they were punished with the Granger railraods.

Perhaps the story about how the libertarians divided the "ICC" and allowed the railroads to walk through to the promised land of deregulation and the walls came crashing in as truckers attempted to follow?

Gabe

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

For most religious people, the Genesis creation story has moral messages and is to be interpreted in manners that meet at least half way with modern science. Remember that modern science still includes various opinions about the original creation, big bang or whatever, about mutliple universes, etc. Similarly, each of the three religions have gobs of interpretive books that add lots of additional views and information to the basic creation story.

As a distraction from Latin in high school, our Latin teacher went over a little theology. It was the best thing I got out of that class. It's been 35 years so the memory is a bit rusty, but:

Amazing as it may seem, virtually all past and present belief systems around our world (including the scientific, although it doesn't get into any supreme beings) have similar stories about the creation of the Earth. In the beginning, there was nothing. Then there was something. At some point a supreme being is introduced (if he wasn't there in the beginning - and most of them are depicted as male), and things progress from there. Specifics depend on the focus of the society.

Most legends have a thread of truth in them.

As for the "Big Bang," the term was coined by a scholar who didn't believe it happened. He was using it in a derogatory sense. He believed that the universe is infinite in space and time (as do I). We'll never find the end of it because we can't see that far. That doesn't mean there was no "big bang," only that it wasn't the only one, with nothing in existence before it happened.

I have no problem with anyone believing what they want, as long as they don't encroach on my life in doing so. In return, I'll do the same.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

For most religious people, the Genisis creation story has moral messages and is to be interpreted in manners that meet at least half way with modern science. Remember that modern science still includes various opinions about the original creation, big bang or whatever, about mutliple universes, etc.

OK, so you are Jewish? I read not all that long ago that it is the generally held opinion of most jewish scholars that Genesis is fiction, based upon some fact.

"Moral messages" as you put it, clearly have good value. But there are those who insist they are good christians, insist that the entire bible is the inspired word of god, and who refuse to recognize that mortal man has had a significant hand in muddling up the "official version" to suit particular agendas.

Those same people are quick to point out that I am headed to hell for not believing as they do.

Your very sensible observation of "is to be interpreted in manners that meet at least half way with modern science. " is based upon good common sense, but does NOT conform to the popular beliefs of those devoutely insistant that the entire bible is the word of God. They (when confronted with realities revealed by advances in science) usually try and climb through some conveniant wormhole, reinterpreting what they have claimed the bible to have meant for centuries, into something new that is in lesser defiance if the new truth revealed by progression of science.

They cop out, in other words, to the least possible level that still permits them to cling to shreds of their original concept(s).

And, the purpose of my original inquiry was simply in trying to anticipate what that next sell out (in context with genesis' story regarding our singulat significance) is likely to be..

My bet is that they will have to try and claim that god didn't think it was any of our business to disclose his OTHER creations to us, or that his instructions were intened to be specific only to earth, and the very contemplation of trying to apply them beyond the confines of earth is somehow flawed and invalid. That the mistake is in those who try too hard to apply the meaning where it was never intended, etc.

A "Copernicus" event, in other words, all over again...just of a different scale....

Speaking of Leviticus, why aren't we adhering strictly to it's teaching? It is part of the bible, so what gives us the right to decide that adultry is a sin, yet leviticus 20:13 can be ignored with impunity?

[Junctionfan]

I hope you all are not miscontruing my points into some kind of sympathising of any particular religion.

I am saying that the religious fanatics are nothing more then politicians bringing partisanship into something that should never be brought into religion of love and peace. Any religion that professes on being that of peace and tolerance, has no business in commiting violence in the name of God by whatever name.

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

Andy?

I always thought it was Art or Harold.

("Art in Heaven" or "Harold by thy name")

Art, Harold and Andy - the trinity

[daveklepper]

Correction, should read "doesn't mean to be a Fundamentalist"

[daveklepper]

For most religious people, the Genisis creation story has moral messages and is to be interpreted in manners that meet at least half way with modern science. Remember that modern science still includes various opinions about the original creation, big bang or whatever, about mutliple universes, etc. Similarly, each of the three religions have gobs of interpretive books that add lots of additional views and information to the basic creation story. As I sometimes point out to those who criticise my own Orthodoxy, the greatest Jewish Biblical commetator is often considered to be Miamonedies, the RAMBA"M, who lived about 900 years ago, born in Spain when ruled by the Muslims, and ended his life and career in Egypt, where he was the court physician to the Egyptian Calyph and his financial advisor. He did not use the medical methods proscrived in Leviticus, and you can read Leviticus to see just what the Bible says to do! He used the best medical information available at that time.

I am sure a good Catholic can come up with similar comments about Thomas Aquainis and others.

And Muslim science was way ahead of Europe some 600 years ago, and they wrote about the Earth being round long before Copernicus and Galilleo.

I'll come up with a better answer when that life is discovered. Meanwhile, concerning the six days of creation, Maimonodies showed that time could be variable before Einstein did, and then postulated that time for the Eternal, as reflected in the Bible, is not the same as time for human beings' daily affairs.

Finally, to be Orthodox does mean to be a Fundamentalist. The Eternal commanded Moses to make the new two tablets of the Ten Commandments and also to build an Ark to put them in. Moses was good engineer and built the Ark first, the opposite of the order in which these commandments come in the Bible.

[gabe]

The best efforts of mice and men done away by those who insist on talking religion again . . . . and I tried so hard.

Can't we have a nice civil debate about Amtrak, remote control switching operations, open access, or public funds used to aid freight railroads?

Gabe

P.S. Junctionfan, thanks for not getting into on the merits. You know how to take a cheap shot when others aren't going to respond.

[Anonymous]

So, quertion to the religiously inclined,...what are you gonna do when life is discovered on some other planet??

The book of genesis is pretty specific about earth being the sole gig in the heavens,...so how wiill you explain that away? [}:)]

[daveklepper]

Junctionfan: I don't judge all Germans on the basis of what the *** did, and indeed on my visits to Germany I encountered less anti-Semitism than in some other European countries that were supposedly on our side in WWII. There are good and bad people of all types. Including atheists!

However, when the British colonialists decided the way to get cheap oil was to give Mecca and the oil to the Wahabee tribe and make them the Saudi Kings, they set back an enlightened Muslim population to the days even preceding the Crusades. This is a separate issue. This is the only religion in the world where its center is off limits to all other religions. Where its home country bans other religions. That is why it is a breeding ground for terrorism. And the reason it has continued for so long is only because of the completely unfair and predatory practices of the highway-auto-oil lobby. Again, the 15 terrorist from Saudi Arabia got into the USA without consular review or security check. Saudi people were treated as special guests by the State Department and could keep the domestic servants in real slavery IN THE UNITED STATES without prosecution, as discussed in a National Review article about 1-1/2 years ago. The Saudis make a big show of fighting terrorism today, but continue to export the theology that breeds terrrorism, that says that "killing and infidal gets one into heaven and an infidal is anyone not a Muslim." Saudi money still is funding schools and mosques in the USA that preach that line. But this is not the Islam of the KORAN. There is plenty in the Koran to provide respect for both Jews and Christians. When Muhammed became a military leader later in his life he wrote some nasty things about Jews and Christians, and these are the writings that the Saudis have emphasized. ---along with the Nazi distributed Protocols of the Elders of Zion among other hate literature that they have published in Arabic and widely distributed --even at an Islamic Frankfort, Germany book fair. You can imagine my reaction when I read about President Bsuh asking for Saudis to lower oil prices. But possibly Bush did all the right things behind the scenes and it just was not discussed. Maybe we will see my dream of an American military base in Saudi Arabia and all Saudi school children at one time or another getting a lecture with slides or movies from the Post Chaplain (American Catholic, Protestan, or Jew) talking about religious freedom and its benefits to America. But this solution won't happen just by panning all religion.

But I am for free speech and I recognize the right of Junctionfan for his opinions. I hope he recognizes the rights to mine and all of yours!