Acela Article

[Anonymous]

I just read the aricle on the front page of this website and had to chuckle. I work in the service industry and have had the misfortune of customers asking for the "un-dooable". I'm not completley convinced it is the Customers wanting a fool proof train or the salesmans "can-do" attitude of being able to deliver a state of the art Train. It seems to me that when a "new item" is being manufactured the Engineer is never consulted. I am very interested in any feedback this posting garners. I hope the parties involved resolve their problems.

[Anonymous]

Amtrak is, unfortunately a quasi-governmental entity, as any government contracts go, there is a whole lot of "fixing", and "politics". Ever hear the story of the "$500:00 toilet seats"?
Yes, it is true. Congress will dump ungodly amounts of taxpayers dollars for personal gains within their constituancy. I say we should make the various senators and congressmen take Amtrak on ALL their "stateside" travels, no more chartered jets, no more limos, just good old Amtrak. For at least a full year. THEN, perhaps they could finally get a grasp on reality. If the government really wants Amtrak to survive, they need to experience Amtrak. But, as I said, since 1971, it's all been just "smoke-and-mirrors".
Anything for a vote. But comes time for action, Amtrak is the "black sheep of the family".
And, as Walter Cronkite used to say, "That's the way it is".
Todd C.

[Anonymous]

If Amtrak was smart, they should offer a deluxe sleeper car accomodation to any congressman for free. Despite their large salaries, many congressmen live on tight budgets and would welcome a free ride. After a while, we might see improvements....

[dknelson]

And this morning's NPR news said the Acela and Metroliner trains are annulled for today -- bet Amtrak wishes it had some GG-1s and heritage coaches still available
Dave

[Anonymous]

You're right, Todd. And based on today's headlines regarding cracks in Acela suspensions, it seems that, once again, Amtrak (Legislature) has dumbed it's way into the spotlight. The only viable part of Amtrak is seriously flawed. If there were still GG1's around, they couldn't be used because of the PCB's. Sigh gdc

[Anonymous]

Todd, I tend to agree with you on the Beaureaucrats way of thinking. I just wonder if there is ever going to be a stealth Ry. in our time, ie.,$500.00 toilet seat, $600.00 hammer (he-he). I also, have seen the other posts and, wonder why Politicians don't ride Amtrak. It seems to me that when push comes to shove with those Hogs, it would behoove them to make the most of our monies to "press the flesh" and espouse their great accomplishments in D.C. I think that Amtrak has become too much of a political football for anything right to happen with it. Can you give us any insight as to how many are employed in the Procurement process? Just curious.
John

[RudyRockvilleMD]

Whenever anything new is introduced you can expect a few commissioning difficulties which impact system reliability, but the commissioning difficulties surrounding the Acela Expresses are extreme.

Amtrak's mistake was it did not do a thorough evaluation of the Acela Express train sets. Instead of building all of the train sets at nearly the same time they should have had two or three trainsets built first to test them in test runs, and then in regular service; the production line would have been stopped until the results of the tests proved to be satisfactory.

[Anonymous]

Thank you, gdc. Your comments on the GG1 were precious... and how!

To think that locomotives built and designed in the FDR era could still be more reliable and, on an overall run, faster, than modern technology! Irony plus!

[Anonymous]

Amtrak could have bought tilting ICE trains or TGV trains instead of the hybrid they did purchase. Amtrak didn't want to improve the tracks or the electric lines, so they innovated. Amtrak should not have been pleased with 150 mph trains and should have invested on 186 mph trains, tracks, and electric lines.... More than likely Amtrak paid more for the slow hybrids trainsets than if they had bought the state of the art trainsets from Europe.....

[RudyRockvilleMD]

Neither the ICE trains nor the TGV's have active tilting mechanisms. The only high speed trains that tilt are the X-2000's in Sweden and the ET 460 and 470 Eurostar Italia train sets in Italy; interestingly, the newer and the faster ET 500 train sets in Italy do not tilt.

Amtrak brought over an X-2000 train set from Sweden and an ICE from Germany in 1993. It ran these trains to evaluate the suitability of trains similar to them for high speed service in this country, and what they ended up with was a hybrid between the two technologies

I agree Amtrak should have asked for funds to upgrade the Washington-New York end of the NEC which would allow the trains to run at their top speed of 150 mph for a longer distance.

[Anonymous]

Keep in mind that although many of Amtrak's woes can be blamed on it's status as a political ping pong ball,congress did not get involved in the design,engineering,and manufacturing supervision of the Acela sets and HHP-8s. That blame should be placed solely at the feet of the so called "professional railroaders" who were Amtrak's decision makers at that time.

[Anonymous]

Can anyone put a total dollar amount on the entire Acela program? I truly am not trying to dissuade anybodys thoughts or opinions on this program. I'm merely trying to become more informed. Also, is there a "Term" limitfor the so-called "professional railroaders" in charge "at that time"?
John

[Anonymous]

After a few days of problems-. When will the Acela be ready to perfom its required duties. I read in the WSJ, can you imagine, that the Acela is expierencing some problems. When any 'new' product is on the front page of the WSJ with negative commentary what's next? I for one think that it is a loosing proposition. Can any one person or entity make this new product work?
John

[Anonymous]

In order to be run freely on US railroads, any european train design would hace to be extensively redesinged to meet american standards. From the very begining, Amtrak asked for a tilting train, so that's why (despite being slower) the X2000 was considered a candidate, and the ICE builders contacted Fiat for a tilting system.

Although Bombardier/Alstom built the TGV and made sure everyone knew that, they had never built a tilting train, they didn't have a tilting system and they didn't test a train in the US by the time they started building the Acela. But they offered far better financing, and that was very important for a tight-budget agency.

By the way, there is currently a tilting ICE in Germany. It is just 7 mph slower than the Acela, but the point is: the Acela is not a bad concept itself (germans did the same thing because they don't have the money to build lots of new high speed lines) but a bad developement. Now it all depends on the attorneys

[Anonymous]

Always ignored by posters here is the weight issue-Acela's are nearly twice as heavy as there counterparts in Europe to meet over cautious american standards- (lawyer protection and CYA) No wonder the suspenson systems are failing. We need to first start on the FRA to get some realistic standards for crashworthness- then we would be able to buy off the shelf from europe.

[Anonymous]

Crashworthiness?
TGV doesn't have a single place where the rails cross a highway at grade. It doesn't need to be as strong as an American train which has to face untold numbers of grade-level crossings and idiot automobile and truck drivers far more interested in getting from here to there without "inconveniences" of trains stopping their holy forward progress.
American trains could be far lighter if it weren't for the !$E#!@!%$ grade-level crossings. In fact, Operation Lifesaver would have less or no reason to exist.
If we are to have real high-speed operation, the crossings have to go--first!

[TH&B]

People seem to expect modern hi speed rail to be majicaly problem free but it's the nature of Hi speed passenger trains to have technical problems, many European countries also have their problems, Sweden has had a rash of cracked axels or wheels, causing major concern and disruptions (that's where the x2000 come from). The German ICE had that terrible wreck years ago due to a "composite" wheel disintigrating at speed. Those wheel types were to be replaced but they didn't pull all trains out of service until replaced, but were replacing them one trainset at a time. And of course England can never run operations smooth, at least never when I've been there.
The TGV does appear to have a flawless train, but they have also invested more time and $$ than the rest. The TGV's do have grade crossings when they run on the old alignments and I've seen pictures of the TGV after it hit some construction machinery on a flatbed trailer and more.

Keep on railroading.

[vvtdeb]

Here's another GREAT IDEA to get Government to actually USE Amtrak. Put ALL of the MILITARY on the TRAINS! I am just out of the active-duty military recently. Not to let the cat out of the bag...but the Military ships THOUSANDS of TROOPS all over the WORLD yearly! Why don't we put them on the TRAINS?! It would only MAKE SENSE! We ALREADY have PAID for the Trains (via government subsidy). The troops are NOT in any TIME BOUND hurry to get where they are going. Perfect passengers.

[Anonymous]

It was Dwight Eisenhower who actually got the idea for the interstate highway system, when he was riding troop trains in WW II. He wanted something faster, easily useable for citywide atomic bomb evacuations, and able to provide runway landing spots for long-range bombers.

Dwight got his ideas from the European theater of war, where the Germans had created the Autobahn, among other *efficient* things like the V-1 buzzbomb, the Volkswagon, and Jewish concentration camps!

In combination with the post-war defense industry, the interurban rail system in the country was gutted, neighborhoods of modestly-priced row homes (read "ethnic") razed, and a wide strip of mafia-built concrete was laid.

Incidentally, the combined trip time for a priority transcontinental passenger train was . . . 72 hours, with those smelly steam engines going over 100 mph.

We now have massive traffic jams, charming row homes go for a cool $500,000 to 1 million in some metro areas, and rail travel is perpetually underfunded.

The irony never ends, does it?

:rolleyes:

Needless to say, Eisenhower is one of my least-favorite presidents of all time. Oh, and Lyndon Johnson the *sob*, who mired us in the Vietnam war and perpetuated a massively-bloated government. Gee, thanks.

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gdcwcc
[If there were still GG1's around, they couldn't be used because of the PCB's. Sigh gdc

GG-1's were motor-generator units, and when they were made, I don't think they were using PCB's.

[oltmannd]

GG-1s were not motor-generator units. They were built for 11,000 VAC 25Hz power. They had a big transformer with tap switches that were used to control the voltage to the motors. The motors were AC with brushes like on your washing machine, so you could vary the load by varying the voltage.

GG-1s could have been rebuilt with new transformers and HEP, but the expense outweighed the benefit. It seems the legend of the GG-1 grows with the ages. The GG-1s weren't bullet-proof. They had lots of problems, not the least of which was truck frame cracking (sound familiar?). Except for the ride problems, the E60s outperformed the GG-1s in HP and tractive effort and would have been faster, too, if only they could stay on the track!

The GG-1 did have the "right stuff" and no replacement has completely measured up in all areas, but the GG-1s were old, tired and outdated when they were retired.

[jondoe]

First off, there is a version of the ICE called the ICET that is tilting. It is used mostly on Munich to to Berlin ICE services. Plus the have a diessalized version of ICE that has the tilting mechanisms. Secondly, I have to say, that I have traveled on both the ICE and Acella and the ICE is a whole lot better train. The Acella design is rather utilitarian and sparse inside. Though I do have to say that the ride on the acella is a vast improvement from the Metroliners. You are jostled about half as much as you are on an a metroliner. If US wants to compete with the European railway community, they need to build dedicated rail lines for the Acella and have dedicated train staff for them as well