Working from the extra board

[Anonymous]

Norfolk Southern is holding a hiring session for the position of conductor trainee, in my town tomorrow.

I notice from reading at NSCorp website about the position offered , that hours are determined by call from an extra board, and that Employees are not guaranteed 40 hours per week, but are paid for time spent performing train service..

Question: typically, how many hours of service would a newly hired conductor expect to get each week?

Is there a VERY real risk that he might only see 20 hours of work per week, or is this disclaimer mostly a "cover their tail" type thing for NS?

[CSXrules4eva]

Oh this is an interesting question. I honestly would like to know the same. This sounds like a good question to ask CSX when I get hired out. I would think that NS would try to get the new employee out as much as possible to get him/her used to the surroundings and being on call 24/7 given NS's strict repuatation.

[Anonymous]

Well, my curiousity is a simple one..Working for the railroad would be great, as long as you can pay your bills.....but, working 20 hours a week could make ones creditors awfully unhappy

[MP173]

Anti:

Is that in Ft. Wayne that NS is hiring?

Listening in on the NS it seems as if they are short on crews.

good luck

ed

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173

Anti:

Is that in Ft. Wayne that NS is hiring?

Listening in on the NS it seems as if they are short on crews.

good luck

ed

Yup,...now for the totally off the wall part.... I'm gonna go apply, just to see what happens....

Yanno? I'm single, travel and odd hours wouldn't be the killer it would be for a family man,....Thought I'd give ot a try...[:D]


The ad has been in the paper all week, and I started the week by laughing at the ad,...now I've turned around on the whole thing enough to give it a whirl..

What's the worse they could do? say "no"?....With my luck they will accept me,.. That'll teach me..[8D]

[Anonymous]

I work on a switchmens extra board for the BNSF, we have a $2000 a half guarantee. As long as you stay marked up and on call you'll make a minium of $2000 a half. Right now were working alot more than that, so the gaurantee hasn't been an issue. I couldn't tell you for sure if other railroads have a similar deal or not though.

[Anonymous]

$2000 a half guarantee.--

OK, I'm stupid.....what does THAT mean? $2000/half month?

[mudchicken]

The life you have is NOT your own.

[Anonymous]

A note from an extra board survivor..many times over. When I first went to work on the CNW, in the summer of '69, I was on the Wisconsin Division extra board. It was road freight only, and one could never predict when they'd be called. The division was brakeman starved, so we would generaly "get out on our rest." Meaning as soon as your 8 hours rest was fullfilled, you were back on parade. "The board is spinning," was the phrase used. But as soon as men came back from vacation, things would slow down. You would tie up, at the end of a trip and be old, "You're 10 times out, nothin' showing." Meaning 9 guys ahead of you, and no vacancies to be filled. So a whole day goes by and you call the caller. "7 times out, with a pool job showing later today," he'd say. So you'd go out for a while, come back and call again. "I was trying to get you, you're called for 295, 9pm at the ramp." Bingo...Just when you thought you'd have another nigt's sleep, you were off. Upon return you'd be told, "Better stick around, I only have 2 men rested." And you'd sit for 3 days before being called.
Yes...If you're not on a gaurantee board (one that pays you just for staying marked up) you may get as little as 20 hours work in a half. But it's rare. That would be only one trip in 2 weeks. I've seen it bad, but never that bad. They'd just "furlough" you.
The Milwaukee board on the Milwaukee Road was better, especially after I was promoted to conductor. You could work down to Chicago, west to Portage, over to Savanah, and up to Green Bay, with a delicious assortment of local patrols to work, and, as an added bonus, all the Fox Lake suburban, and Amtrak passenger jobs. There was a time when we could only get 3 days a week out of all that.
The South Shore Line's engineer's extra list was good. Gauranteed, and with the variety of flagman's, collectors', conductors',and engineers' jobs to be called for. Sometimes punching tickets, sometimes punching automobile bumpers on 11th Street.
All Passenger lists are good to work on. If you get along with the caller, you can see what jobs are vacant, you know when they go to work, and sometimes get an "early call" ahead of the standard calling time, and do some errands.
But quite frankly, I would rather have root canal work done than work an extra list today.

Mitch

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

The life you have is NOT your own.

I recognize the golden value of that advice. But, as a former salaried management "slave", the feeling will not be all that foreign....and ....at least they'll have to contemplate time and a half before calling me in to work other peoples shifts on top of my own.....

[jeaton]

From all that I have heard over many years, conditions vary from board to board and you probably won't get a clear picture of your situation until you have been marked up for a while. I'd bet lunch that asking around during training would get you two responses: Way too much work AND hardly enough work to buy groceries. Good luck.

Jay

PS Did you ever get your used rail ties? email me.

[ValleyX]

No, Gates, you just don't really have a clue about it, they won't be contemplating time-and-a-half when they call you to protect other folks vacancies, unless you're called after eight hours rest for a second tour of duty on a yard engine, within 22 1/2 hours. More likely, you'd be on a road extra board, as was said above, either it "spins" or it dies on the vine, sometimes they reach a happy medium but I think that's rare. Extra boards are "spinning" now but the day will come that they won't.

The idea of the extra board is to protect vacancies when the regular people lay, or "mark" off. But by regular people, that doesn't mean they have regular work assignments when in road service, it only means that they hold a regular pool assignment within the pool rotation and are subject to the same uncertainties of when they're exactly going to work as an extra man, with the exception that they're guaranteed to get called sooner or later, an extra man usually has to wait for someone to mark off.

There are locals that have regular calling times but the off duty time varies, they're usually jobs that fill a full shift of 12 hours.

Norfolk Southern does not guarantee trainmens' extra boards, however most engineer extra boards are guaranteed. As for a "half", pay runs by the half, it used to be half a month but went to two week pay periods a good number of years ago. The term 'half' lingers, however.

[Anonymous]

Well,thanks.....

The news is,....During the proceedings today, I survived both rounds of "cuts", out of the original 65 to show up for the session, I was one of the 12 to be asked to stay for a personal interview.... And was told I should know by 5PM tuesday if I'm going to get a conditional offer for employment.. One thing they mentioned, is that they plan to work me to death, if I get hired,.....predicting 10 "turns" for every 7 days,...just based upon the way things are right now...


So guys,....here's where I need your advice.....do I "want" this job?

I need to go back to work and do something.....And I know it will be a grind ,...but, isn't this supposed to be the foamers "dream job"? The one they always want, but never can get? or am I the one who is dreaming here?

[edblysard]

Depends, if you want to work you fanny off...and make a good living.
But, when it dies off, it still works on the last hired, first fired basis...

If you can afford to try, then do it, you will learn a lot more than you could imagine.

Ed

[csxengineer98]

you are garrenteed nothing on an extra board long the lines of how much you will work... i have worked the boards for years... sometimes i have worked every 8 to 10 hours..getting out on my rest... the thier have been other times where i would sit at home for days at a time..and only make 3 trips in a week... extra boards are way to hard to predict as far as how much work you will get... they are always a crapshoot... way to many factors in to figering out how much or how little you will work....
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

you are garrenteed nothing on an extra board long the lines of how much you will work... i have worked the boards for years... sometimes i have worked every 8 to 10 hours..getting out on my rest... the thier have been other times where i would sit at home for days at a time..and only make 3 trips in a week... extra boards are way to hard to predict as far as how much work you will get... they are always a crapshoot... way to many factors in to figering out how much or how little you will work....
csx engineer

I appreciate that advice. And, they have been very honest in emphasizing that there is no guartantee.


But, the way things went today (and I'm being serious, I expected to go in there and get the door slammed in my face early on) their biggest concern seemed to be in confirming that, if accepted, I was willing to work MEGA hours...

Of course, how long that boom will last,.. is anybody's guess.

[ValleyX]

By all means, if you ever thought you'd like to give it a try, then do it. If you got that far, then you're probably going to get a call. Business is good right now, as good as it has been in a long time and everyone is working and I expect they'll continue to work. Norfolk Southern has done a good bit of hiring in your location and they hope to get some more. Of course, when these people get qualified they mark them up for duty on the extra board. They're expecting more business, which means more regular pool assignments, which means everyone' s lot in life improves. But, be forewarned, you might work some of the time like its nuts and you'll meet yourself coming and going and there will be other times where it'll die on the vine, as CSX engineer said. He's right, I've experienced all kinds of extra boards, there's nothing like being first out subject to call for four or five days and I've experienced that but that was on an engineer's extra board with slow business and a slow turning pool. I was begging them to cut me back, this was well before the days of guaranteed extra boards.

[ValleyX]

Oh, did a lot of people show up today to get whittled down to only 12? How many left after they heard about drug testing?

[CSXrules4eva]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

Well,thanks.....

The news is,....During the proceedings today, I survived both rounds of "cuts", out of the original 65 to show up for the session, I was one of the 12 to be asked to stay for a personal interview.... And was told I should know by 5PM tuesday if I'm going to get a conditional offer for employment.. One thing they mentioned, is that they plan to work me to death, if I get hired,.....predicting 10 "turns" for every 7 days,...just based upon the way things are right now...


So guys,....here's where I need your advice.....do I "want" this job?

I need to go back to work and do something.....And I know it will be a grind ,...but, isn't this supposed to be the foamers "dream job"? The one they always want, but never can get? or am I the one who is dreaming here?

I know if it were me I would want this job thats for sure.!!! I guess it would all depend. I think if your single, don't have kids, or you don't have anyone to take care of a job on the railroad would be great espually for a railfan. You would get the best of both worlds fun and good pay. However, the downsides are working from the extra board, and some other things that I can't think of right now. . . . .. . lol.

[ValleyX]

Ha, I'm inattentive, there's the answer right there in your post, 65. Still, I was wondering how many disappeared early on, I have always heard that they lose some when they explain the job, painting all the worst-case scenarios, and lose some when they make it clear that you're subject to testing. I am guessing they might lose some when they announce that some of the training will require two trips to McDonough, GA. And, it's amazing to me to ask someone who has been around for a period of five or six years how many are left who they started with. The answer is frequently two or three and in some cases, the answer will be, "I'm the only one left".

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX

Ha, I'm inattentive, there's the answer right there in your post, 65. Still, I was wondering how many disappeared early on, I have always heard that they lose some when they explain the job, painting all the worst-case scenarios, and lose some when they make it clear that you're subject to testing. I am guessing they might lose some when they announce that some of the training will require two trips to McDonough, GA. And, it's amazing to me to ask someone who has been around for a period of five or six years how many are left who they started with. The answer is frequently two or three and in some cases, the answer will be, "I'm the only one left".

OK, to answer your question....65 showed at first...and the initial orientation was obviously designed to weed (excuse the pun [}:)] ) out the light hearted. The guy repeated with emphasis 4 times in a row "the drug test you will be given, will id EVERY SUBSTANCE you have taken during the past 90 days" Then even went as far as to say that even if somone attempted to use a masking substance, that their test was good enough to even ID which brand of masking agent they used....


Then, there was a break period, at the begining of which it was encouraged that only people serious about working for the railroad, return after the break.

Only 2 or 3 split.

Then, we filled out the applications, they read them, and then anounced the names of the survivors. I expected to get cut.....and my jaw about hit the ground when my name was announced. Perhaps 22-28 people survived the first cut

Then we took their math and linguistic aptitude timed test, and the crazy 206 question "Hogan" personality assessment test.


Then we went to lunch while they graded tests.

Upon return, my jaw fell even further when they read off my name the second time telling me to stay...and this time the ones who got cut took it pretty hard.

After that, my "interview" was more of an emotional litmus test, trying to confirm beyond any doubt, that I was serious in saying that I was willing to work 30 out of every 31 days, if need be... than it was a look back at my past performance in previous jobs.

As far as the drug tests are concerned,...well..hehe heh, a few years ago I woulda been one of the ones walking out after that anouncement.

But, times change, and I actually managed to get bored with recreational chemistry..

90 days? HEH,....I could claim 90 weeks, with ease... even twice that... So, I'm not too worried..

Shoot, I don't even drink anymore... they will be getting a clean Gene if they hire me...
[8D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSXrules4eva



I know if it were me I would want this job thats for sure.!!! I guess it would all depend. I think if your single, don't have kids, or you don't have anyone to take care of a job on the railroad would be great espually for a railfan. You would get the best of both worlds fun and good pay. However, the downsides are working from the extra board, and some other things that I can't think of right now. . . . .. . lol.

Hey, you're right...Not to count my chickens before they hatch, cause that phonecall might never come... But if It does,...I'd be a fool in a way to not at least try it.. Then, if It's not for me...I know where the door is.. right? But if I like it......well what could be better than to get paid for something you really enjoy doing?

[Anonymous]

Every terminal is different and every extraboard is different. Bottom line is if the extraboard has a guarantee get used to living off of it! I've been on a engineers board now for 4 years and it is either dead which is cool because they pay you to sit at home. Or we work out tails off and make tons of money. The regular "pool" jobs are just as stressful since you really never know when csx will run the trains and your always lingering 1st out it seems Good luck and stick with it

[ValleyX]

I hired out a long time ago, long before they used the present methods of hiring and I really can't believe that they're getting a better quality employee than they did then. Although I will say that had they had drug testing back then, there's probably quite a few "old heads" today who would've never been hired. [tdn] [:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX

I hired out a long time ago, long before they used the present methods of hiring and I really can't believe that they're getting a better quality employee than they did then. Although I will say that had they had drug testing back then, there's probably quite a few "old heads" today who would've never been hired. [tdn] [:D]

Well, there's a few things leaving me a tad confused.


They say that once you get 5+ years of seniority, you can start bidding on regular jobs So, IN THEORY anyway, I guess that means you could get a nice job working a local, or the yard,...where your hours make SOME sense..

But then they say that all conductors MUST, after one year, take the locomotive engineers test.....and potentially become an Engineer. Taking this test is not an option, it is mandatory.....and if you don't pass, you are out the door,...you cannot revert back to just being a conductor...if you don't pass the engineers test.


One might say "Where's the harm of that? EVERYONE wants to be an engineer, anyway" right?

Well, that may be true. At this point I'd say that the opportunity to become an engineer is just far enough into the future that it's a non-issue/non-goal for me.


The thing that gets me is that the combination of the thought processes does not make sense.

To wit: HTH are you going to become a conductor with enough
seniority to hold down a desireable route, if "after one year all conductors must become engineers"? ...

Of course, if you become an engineer, your one year of seniority is just plain GONE, cause when you become an engineer you go directly to the bottom of that list, and forever forget about being a conductor..

So, something about the stories they've told, don't quite jive..

Me thinks they really don't need conductors, they need engineers, and the year one would spend as a conductor, is merely a prerequiste to the engineers job...

(if that makes any sense)

I say that because despite the job offer to "hire on as a conductor" there really is no career opportunity to become and stay as a conductor.

[ValleyX]

Five years to bid on jobs? Wonder where that came from. Once you've established your seniority and have been turned loose as a fully qualified conductor, you can bid on any job that comes up for bid. Naturally, with low seniority, you probably won't get it but never hesitate to bid on a job because you get fooled sometimes, pleasantly so.

As for going to engineer's school in a year, probably not. I know that's what they tell you but it really isn't true. Within five years, probably so. Now, in some locations, the need for engineers is more acute than others, Elkhart is one place I know of. In your location, they're going after about five years of service on the railroad. There's an acute need for conductors so that they can send the older conductors to engine school. Until they get some of the newer people in place, they hold off on sending the older people.

Once you become a promoted engineer, it doesn't mean that you'll work as an engineer all the time. It's all seniority and being set up on the extra board in seniority order. If the boards slows, the company cuts it back and then you go "back on the ground", meaning you work as a conductor again.

The baby boomer effect is going to start kicking in soon on the railroad and there's going to be a big turnover in the next 5-8 years, if you've got longer than that to work and they hire you and you stick it out, you'll be an engineer.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX

Five years to bid on jobs? Wonder where that came from. Once you've established your seniority and have been turned loose as a fully qualified conductor, you can bid on any job that comes up for bid. Naturally, with low seniority, you probably won't get it but never hesitate to bid on a job because you get fooled sometimes, pleasantly so.

As for going to engineer's school in a year, probably not. I know that's what they tell you but it really isn't true. Within five years, probably so. Now, in some locations, the need for engineers is more acute than others, Elkhart is one place I know of. In your location, they're going after about five years of service on the railroad. There's an acute need for conductors so that they can send the older conductors to engine school. Until they get some of the newer people in place, they hold off on sending the older people.

Once you become a promoted engineer, it doesn't mean that you'll work as an engineer all the time. It's all seniority and being set up on the extra board in seniority order. If the boards slows, the company cuts it back and then you go "back on the ground", meaning you work as a conductor again.

The baby boomer effect is going to start kicking in soon on the railroad and there's going to be a big turnover in the next 5-8 years, if you've got longer than that to work and they hire you and you stick it out, you'll be an engineer.

Thanks for all the extra info.... I think when they said "5 years to bid on jobs", the way they meant it was being able to bid with reasonable hope for success,. given the general seniority of my peer employees..

Perhaps the talk of "engineer" was intended as a lure, for those who aspire to be one... extra bait...etc It just seemed odd that they were saying 2 different things at once..

Well, we'll just see...They said I'd know by 5 pm Tuesday if they could use me....

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX

Five years to bid on jobs? Wonder where that came from. Once you've established your seniority and have been turned loose as a fully qualified conductor, you can bid on any job that comes up for bid. Naturally, with low seniority, you probably won't get it but never hesitate to bid on a job because you get fooled sometimes, pleasantly so.

As for going to engineer's school in a year, probably not. I know that's what they tell you but it really isn't true. Within five years, probably so. Now, in some locations, the need for engineers is more acute than others, Elkhart is one place I know of. In your location, they're going after about five years of service on the railroad. There's an acute need for conductors so that they can send the older conductors to engine school. Until they get some of the newer people in place, they hold off on sending the older people.

Once you become a promoted engineer, it doesn't mean that you'll work as an engineer all the time. It's all seniority and being set up on the extra board in seniority order. If the boards slows, the company cuts it back and then you go "back on the ground", meaning you work as a conductor again.

The baby boomer effect is going to start kicking in soon on the railroad and there's going to be a big turnover in the next 5-8 years, if you've got longer than that to work and they hire you and you stick it out, you'll be an engineer.

Thanks for all the extra info.... I think when they said "5 years to bid on jobs", the way they meant it was being able to bid with reasonable hope for success,. given the general seniority of my peer employees..

Perhaps the talk of "engineer" was intended as a lure, for those who aspire to be one... extra bait...etc It just seemed odd that they were saying 2 different things at once..

Well, we'll just see...They said I'd know by 5 pm Tuesday if they could use me....

you have to take a look at the ages of the people that are already working in the terminals that you will have rights to work in...if they have alot of older workes..meaning ones that can if they want to..retire in a few years...then the odds of holding a reguler pool turn or a yard job are somewhat good...now on the other hand..if the terminals have a relitive younger work force..meaning that they have years and years to go or have a bunch of newer hires working thier already...your odds have just droped big time... in that case...you might be able to hold a pool turn or shift job only when vacations are going on...the rest of the time your extra board help...
csx engineer

[csxengineer98]

also...your railroad had to have a flowback agreement in place to be able to go between crafts..some railroads dont have it..and some railroads have it as a whole..but some divistions are exempt due to some local agreements between labor and the carriers...
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

also...your railroad had to have a flowback agreement in place to be able to go between crafts..some railroads dont have it..and some railroads have it as a whole..but some divistions are exempt due to some local agreements between labor and the carriers...
csx engineer

They did say the ability to go from conductor to engineer was the ONLY instance where it was allowable to go between crafts.

Any and all other changes between crafts are prohibited