Working from the extra board

[Anonymous]

We have had differences on other threads, but, c'mon......are you going to be upset when we fire you? No! ***, I'm gonna be freakin' overjoyed! I'll collect job insurance and RR unemployment and sit at home watching cartoons. In my first hiring session my interviewer was an idiot, I tried again and got a different guy and was hired. Some of these HR people are clowns. My suggestion, try choo-choo u. You are retired, financially stable, like trains...what's the worst thing that could happen? You get to go to K.C. and learn about the rules....best thing, get a job. Most of these HR chumps have no idea about operating, they spout a bunch of crap from a script and give a bunch of poor saps the runaround cause they can. I had the pleasure of meeting a HR bimbo that didn't know a frog from a wet fart, and the only joint she ever made were the ones she smoked in college. 1 class one down 4 more to go.

[ValleyX]

They're going to hire again in your area, rumor has it, tell the interviewer you plan to buy job insurance and you don't care if they fire you or not, that's sure to keep you on the street, so to speak.[swg]

Actually, your responses probably made them think you were a little too independent for their tastes, if they got the idea that you were financially independent in any way, that might have done it. I think they'd prefer to hire a guy your age who really needs a job and will stay marked up about all the time, maybe they weren't hearing that from you.
Mere speculation on my part, you understand.

Oh, and if you railroad, regardless of what they try to implant into you, sooner or later, you'll do something stupid. They might never know it but you'll do it. I suspect that is true of most occupations (and life).

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

Too bad too, because it started bugging me for a while, wondering why they decided against me. It would have been nice to know.

For what it's worth.....the extra board / pool service is what caused me to leave the CNW. When I started on the CNW, I was only 19 and single, so working on call was no big deal. However, after getting married, then two kids, the twenty years of working on-call just wore me out; I just could not take it anymore. My health was suffering, I had no life other than the railroad, and I was near divorce. So I quit (actually I got fired for insubordination (taking unauthorized time off), but that is another story).

When the Feds got involved, and started the UA's, it just wasn't any fun any more. Not because I was doing drugs or drinking on duty, it was just the change in the mood around the railroad. Plus every time you had to go for a UA, your entire career was on the line; and if someone screwed up your UA and it showed a "positive' result, you were done. Remember, when drug tests first came out, people were getting fired for eating poppy seeds or taking certain OTC drugs; each showed 'positive' on the early primitive (compared to today) tests.

And then the Feds started watching and listening to us. And the Feds imposed personal fines on railroaders for rule violations, not just the railroad, plus incidents went on your Engineer license. So we were caught between a rock and a hard place: you had the railroad getting all perturbed at the crews because, due to the Feds, we tried to follow the rules to the letter which took much more time than before, and the Feds getting all bent for silly rule transgressions (like not saying "over" after a radio transmission).

I certainly do not regret my time on the railroad; to me, operating trains is still the coolest job around. Nonetheless, I do not regret leaving.

So your being not accepted may have been a blessing in disguise.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX

Well Gates, we've all been waiting with bated breath. Did they call you?

Just saw this......

Naw, the phone never rang... Guess I'm not made of the right stuff.....[:(]


Odd to have things go so positive through the whole hiring session, and then not get a call.

That's rather surprising. You certainly are smart enough. You sound like you have a good employment history. You're drug-free. And I was under the impression that the railroads were starving for people that not only met their criteria, but were also willing to put up with those hours.

Did you ever call back to see if they were still hiring, and if so, find out why you were not called? Perhaps in a different location, or for a different railroad....

The demeanor of the interviewer was kinda high handed, and he pretty much layed out a "Don't call us, we'll call you" game plan. He was a national level recruiter with NS, and to tell the truth I have no idea where his base office even was, and to hear him tell it he is out on the road conducting hiring sessions most of the time, anyway.

He told us as a group that if we were not accepted we should keep track of the NS website as well as the local papers for additional hiring sessions, that was our only recourse.

And calling around trying to track somebody down who has already said "we'll call you" seems like it would annoy him more than not. So it seemed like it was just "bummer for me"..

Too bad too, because it started bugging me for a while, wondering why they decided against me. It would have been nice to know.

My guess is, I was too honest (not enough "gung ho") during the verbal interview. part.

He asked a couple questions like "Are you going to be angry when we fire you for rules violations?" that I think they were trying to provoke a response, and I think I gave answers other than what they wanted to hear.

For instance I said "Well, it'll be my fault, so how could I blame you?" Trying to be nonconfrontational......when I think they wanted a more "rah rah!!" response such as "With you guys training me, there WILL BE NO rules violations!" and stuff like that.

Hey, it had been 28 years since my last job interview, so I was a little rusty.

Maybe next time[8D]

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX

Well Gates, we've all been waiting with bated breath. Did they call you?

Just saw this......

Naw, the phone never rang... Guess I'm not made of the right stuff.....[:(]


Odd to have things go so positive through the whole hiring session, and then not get a call.

That's rather surprising. You certainly are smart enough. You sound like you have a good employment history. You're drug-free. And I was under the impression that the railroads were starving for people that not only met their criteria, but were also willing to put up with those hours.

Did you ever call back to see if they were still hiring, and if so, find out why you were not called? Perhaps in a different location, or for a different railroad....

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX

Well Gates, we've all been waiting with bated breath. Did they call you?

Just saw this......

Naw, the phone never rang... Guess I'm not made of the right stuff.....[:(]


Odd to have things go so positive through the whole hiring session, and then not get a call.

[Rodney Beck]

On BNSF training pay is 138.50 per day and overtime after 48 hours for the week.

Rodney BNSF Engineer

[jrnyfrisco]

How much is training pay on BNSF for example? On their website it says they will train you for 13 to 15 weeks if you graduate from NARS and if you get hired. If anyone has a ballpark estimate I would be interested, Thanks for your time,

[ValleyX]

Well Gates, we've all been waiting with bated breath. Did they call you?

[Anonymous]

My extraboard experiences are very similar to the other RR guys. I hired out a little over a year ago now and my RR career has been a wild one already. I rode the road extraboard for the whole summer. I worked on my rest most of the summer and made very good money, but I also forgot what my wife looked like. Then in the fall I found out I was going to be remote qualified eventually, so I signed up early so I could enjoy the nice September weather outdoors from 8am to 4pm. By the time my remote training was done I decided to stay in the yard for awhile and be at home. I worked off the yard switchman's board and only worked once in two weeks!! Luckily I had some guarnantee to draw, but nothing close to what that dude on the BNSF made. I needed some cash, so I went back to road and was able to hold some freight pool jobs to Chicago for a few weeks and made some good money. Then, third shift in the yard opened up and I decided to come home. The nights were long and very cold and most of the old heads and guys above me fleed to piggy backs or locals to get away from the cold nights. I have held third shift regular for three months now and I have really learned to how to switch, granted I can only do so much with a remote. Anywho, the point is... you never know what your RR career will bring you. You will have stretches of time where you work so much you wake up in a cold sweat in your own bed thinking you fell asleep on your train. Then, there are other times where that phone won't ring for a week and you sit there wondering if you still have a job! Also, if you need time off look for open turns on pools you know you can't hold, you will get bumped and then have 48 hours to make a move; granted you loose your guarantee for those days, but at least you can catch you breath! I don't know how it works on other RR's this is how it work on my part of the CSX.

[ValleyX]

There are no flowback agreements on Norfolk Southern in any location that I'm aware of and I think that's true systemwide.

[shrek623]

It all depends on the terminal. I hired out last July and I hold a pool turn right now. But at the terminal I hired out at I could barely hold the brakeman's x-board. CSXengineer98 is right, it has everything to do with location. From my recent personal experience, I moved to a different terminal because I hated the x-board and could hold a pool turn elsewhere. So take everything into account.

Shrek

[Anonymous]

As stated, just because you are trained as an engineer, doesn't mean you'll be working as one.

In my terminal there are lots of hoggers that can't even hold the hogger spareboard, so they have to work as conductors, and they were trained in the early 1990s!

The main reason for this was because they brought in belt pack about 5 years ago, and they got rid of about 40 hogger jobs in the yard, so they haven't had to train any hoggers for about a decade now.

Now with a lot of the old hog heads retiring, they are finally getting to the point where there will be hogger training again. Some conductors have been waiting for the better part of a decade to get behind the stand.

As far as the "manditory hogger training" this is so in my terminal too.
Now, because of when I hired on, I have no choice but to take the hogger training, and hopefully I'll pass it.

The main reason for railways wanting everyone to now qualify as hoggers is because soon enough through freights will be running engineer only, without conductors, therefore it's in the RRs best interest that everyone be trained to run the loco's.

Lots of people seem to think that it will never happen, but believe me, we will all live to see engineer only operation.

[Anonymous]

Needless to say,...THANKS to all you guys who have offered your insight You have allowed me to look at the entire scenario from a perspective I never would have thought about, without your "insider" experiance

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

also...your railroad had to have a flowback agreement in place to be able to go between crafts..some railroads dont have it..and some railroads have it as a whole..but some divistions are exempt due to some local agreements between labor and the carriers...
csx engineer

They did say the ability to go from conductor to engineer was the ONLY instance where it was allowable to go between crafts.

Any and all other changes between crafts are prohibited

[csxengineer98]

also...your railroad had to have a flowback agreement in place to be able to go between crafts..some railroads dont have it..and some railroads have it as a whole..but some divistions are exempt due to some local agreements between labor and the carriers...
csx engineer

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX

Five years to bid on jobs? Wonder where that came from. Once you've established your seniority and have been turned loose as a fully qualified conductor, you can bid on any job that comes up for bid. Naturally, with low seniority, you probably won't get it but never hesitate to bid on a job because you get fooled sometimes, pleasantly so.

As for going to engineer's school in a year, probably not. I know that's what they tell you but it really isn't true. Within five years, probably so. Now, in some locations, the need for engineers is more acute than others, Elkhart is one place I know of. In your location, they're going after about five years of service on the railroad. There's an acute need for conductors so that they can send the older conductors to engine school. Until they get some of the newer people in place, they hold off on sending the older people.

Once you become a promoted engineer, it doesn't mean that you'll work as an engineer all the time. It's all seniority and being set up on the extra board in seniority order. If the boards slows, the company cuts it back and then you go "back on the ground", meaning you work as a conductor again.

The baby boomer effect is going to start kicking in soon on the railroad and there's going to be a big turnover in the next 5-8 years, if you've got longer than that to work and they hire you and you stick it out, you'll be an engineer.

Thanks for all the extra info.... I think when they said "5 years to bid on jobs", the way they meant it was being able to bid with reasonable hope for success,. given the general seniority of my peer employees..

Perhaps the talk of "engineer" was intended as a lure, for those who aspire to be one... extra bait...etc It just seemed odd that they were saying 2 different things at once..

Well, we'll just see...They said I'd know by 5 pm Tuesday if they could use me....

you have to take a look at the ages of the people that are already working in the terminals that you will have rights to work in...if they have alot of older workes..meaning ones that can if they want to..retire in a few years...then the odds of holding a reguler pool turn or a yard job are somewhat good...now on the other hand..if the terminals have a relitive younger work force..meaning that they have years and years to go or have a bunch of newer hires working thier already...your odds have just droped big time... in that case...you might be able to hold a pool turn or shift job only when vacations are going on...the rest of the time your extra board help...
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX

Five years to bid on jobs? Wonder where that came from. Once you've established your seniority and have been turned loose as a fully qualified conductor, you can bid on any job that comes up for bid. Naturally, with low seniority, you probably won't get it but never hesitate to bid on a job because you get fooled sometimes, pleasantly so.

As for going to engineer's school in a year, probably not. I know that's what they tell you but it really isn't true. Within five years, probably so. Now, in some locations, the need for engineers is more acute than others, Elkhart is one place I know of. In your location, they're going after about five years of service on the railroad. There's an acute need for conductors so that they can send the older conductors to engine school. Until they get some of the newer people in place, they hold off on sending the older people.

Once you become a promoted engineer, it doesn't mean that you'll work as an engineer all the time. It's all seniority and being set up on the extra board in seniority order. If the boards slows, the company cuts it back and then you go "back on the ground", meaning you work as a conductor again.

The baby boomer effect is going to start kicking in soon on the railroad and there's going to be a big turnover in the next 5-8 years, if you've got longer than that to work and they hire you and you stick it out, you'll be an engineer.

Thanks for all the extra info.... I think when they said "5 years to bid on jobs", the way they meant it was being able to bid with reasonable hope for success,. given the general seniority of my peer employees..

Perhaps the talk of "engineer" was intended as a lure, for those who aspire to be one... extra bait...etc It just seemed odd that they were saying 2 different things at once..

Well, we'll just see...They said I'd know by 5 pm Tuesday if they could use me....

[ValleyX]

Five years to bid on jobs? Wonder where that came from. Once you've established your seniority and have been turned loose as a fully qualified conductor, you can bid on any job that comes up for bid. Naturally, with low seniority, you probably won't get it but never hesitate to bid on a job because you get fooled sometimes, pleasantly so.

As for going to engineer's school in a year, probably not. I know that's what they tell you but it really isn't true. Within five years, probably so. Now, in some locations, the need for engineers is more acute than others, Elkhart is one place I know of. In your location, they're going after about five years of service on the railroad. There's an acute need for conductors so that they can send the older conductors to engine school. Until they get some of the newer people in place, they hold off on sending the older people.

Once you become a promoted engineer, it doesn't mean that you'll work as an engineer all the time. It's all seniority and being set up on the extra board in seniority order. If the boards slows, the company cuts it back and then you go "back on the ground", meaning you work as a conductor again.

The baby boomer effect is going to start kicking in soon on the railroad and there's going to be a big turnover in the next 5-8 years, if you've got longer than that to work and they hire you and you stick it out, you'll be an engineer.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX

I hired out a long time ago, long before they used the present methods of hiring and I really can't believe that they're getting a better quality employee than they did then. Although I will say that had they had drug testing back then, there's probably quite a few "old heads" today who would've never been hired. [tdn] [:D]

Well, there's a few things leaving me a tad confused.


They say that once you get 5+ years of seniority, you can start bidding on regular jobs So, IN THEORY anyway, I guess that means you could get a nice job working a local, or the yard,...where your hours make SOME sense..

But then they say that all conductors MUST, after one year, take the locomotive engineers test.....and potentially become an Engineer. Taking this test is not an option, it is mandatory.....and if you don't pass, you are out the door,...you cannot revert back to just being a conductor...if you don't pass the engineers test.


One might say "Where's the harm of that? EVERYONE wants to be an engineer, anyway" right?

Well, that may be true. At this point I'd say that the opportunity to become an engineer is just far enough into the future that it's a non-issue/non-goal for me.


The thing that gets me is that the combination of the thought processes does not make sense.

To wit: HTH are you going to become a conductor with enough
seniority to hold down a desireable route, if "after one year all conductors must become engineers"? ...

Of course, if you become an engineer, your one year of seniority is just plain GONE, cause when you become an engineer you go directly to the bottom of that list, and forever forget about being a conductor..

So, something about the stories they've told, don't quite jive..

Me thinks they really don't need conductors, they need engineers, and the year one would spend as a conductor, is merely a prerequiste to the engineers job...

(if that makes any sense)

I say that because despite the job offer to "hire on as a conductor" there really is no career opportunity to become and stay as a conductor.

[ValleyX]

I hired out a long time ago, long before they used the present methods of hiring and I really can't believe that they're getting a better quality employee than they did then. Although I will say that had they had drug testing back then, there's probably quite a few "old heads" today who would've never been hired. [tdn] [:D]

[Anonymous]

Every terminal is different and every extraboard is different. Bottom line is if the extraboard has a guarantee get used to living off of it! I've been on a engineers board now for 4 years and it is either dead which is cool because they pay you to sit at home. Or we work out tails off and make tons of money. The regular "pool" jobs are just as stressful since you really never know when csx will run the trains and your always lingering 1st out it seems Good luck and stick with it

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSXrules4eva



I know if it were me I would want this job thats for sure.!!! I guess it would all depend. I think if your single, don't have kids, or you don't have anyone to take care of a job on the railroad would be great espually for a railfan. You would get the best of both worlds fun and good pay. However, the downsides are working from the extra board, and some other things that I can't think of right now. . . . .. . lol.

Hey, you're right...Not to count my chickens before they hatch, cause that phonecall might never come... But if It does,...I'd be a fool in a way to not at least try it.. Then, if It's not for me...I know where the door is.. right? But if I like it......well what could be better than to get paid for something you really enjoy doing?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX

Ha, I'm inattentive, there's the answer right there in your post, 65. Still, I was wondering how many disappeared early on, I have always heard that they lose some when they explain the job, painting all the worst-case scenarios, and lose some when they make it clear that you're subject to testing. I am guessing they might lose some when they announce that some of the training will require two trips to McDonough, GA. And, it's amazing to me to ask someone who has been around for a period of five or six years how many are left who they started with. The answer is frequently two or three and in some cases, the answer will be, "I'm the only one left".

OK, to answer your question....65 showed at first...and the initial orientation was obviously designed to weed (excuse the pun [}:)] ) out the light hearted. The guy repeated with emphasis 4 times in a row "the drug test you will be given, will id EVERY SUBSTANCE you have taken during the past 90 days" Then even went as far as to say that even if somone attempted to use a masking substance, that their test was good enough to even ID which brand of masking agent they used....


Then, there was a break period, at the begining of which it was encouraged that only people serious about working for the railroad, return after the break.

Only 2 or 3 split.

Then, we filled out the applications, they read them, and then anounced the names of the survivors. I expected to get cut.....and my jaw about hit the ground when my name was announced. Perhaps 22-28 people survived the first cut

Then we took their math and linguistic aptitude timed test, and the crazy 206 question "Hogan" personality assessment test.


Then we went to lunch while they graded tests.

Upon return, my jaw fell even further when they read off my name the second time telling me to stay...and this time the ones who got cut took it pretty hard.

After that, my "interview" was more of an emotional litmus test, trying to confirm beyond any doubt, that I was serious in saying that I was willing to work 30 out of every 31 days, if need be... than it was a look back at my past performance in previous jobs.

As far as the drug tests are concerned,...well..hehe heh, a few years ago I woulda been one of the ones walking out after that anouncement.

But, times change, and I actually managed to get bored with recreational chemistry..

90 days? HEH,....I could claim 90 weeks, with ease... even twice that... So, I'm not too worried..

Shoot, I don't even drink anymore... they will be getting a clean Gene if they hire me...
[8D]

[ValleyX]

Ha, I'm inattentive, there's the answer right there in your post, 65. Still, I was wondering how many disappeared early on, I have always heard that they lose some when they explain the job, painting all the worst-case scenarios, and lose some when they make it clear that you're subject to testing. I am guessing they might lose some when they announce that some of the training will require two trips to McDonough, GA. And, it's amazing to me to ask someone who has been around for a period of five or six years how many are left who they started with. The answer is frequently two or three and in some cases, the answer will be, "I'm the only one left".

[CSXrules4eva]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

Well,thanks.....

The news is,....During the proceedings today, I survived both rounds of "cuts", out of the original 65 to show up for the session, I was one of the 12 to be asked to stay for a personal interview.... And was told I should know by 5PM tuesday if I'm going to get a conditional offer for employment.. One thing they mentioned, is that they plan to work me to death, if I get hired,.....predicting 10 "turns" for every 7 days,...just based upon the way things are right now...


So guys,....here's where I need your advice.....do I "want" this job?

I need to go back to work and do something.....And I know it will be a grind ,...but, isn't this supposed to be the foamers "dream job"? The one they always want, but never can get? or am I the one who is dreaming here?

I know if it were me I would want this job thats for sure.!!! I guess it would all depend. I think if your single, don't have kids, or you don't have anyone to take care of a job on the railroad would be great espually for a railfan. You would get the best of both worlds fun and good pay. However, the downsides are working from the extra board, and some other things that I can't think of right now. . . . .. . lol.

[ValleyX]

Oh, did a lot of people show up today to get whittled down to only 12? How many left after they heard about drug testing?

[ValleyX]

By all means, if you ever thought you'd like to give it a try, then do it. If you got that far, then you're probably going to get a call. Business is good right now, as good as it has been in a long time and everyone is working and I expect they'll continue to work. Norfolk Southern has done a good bit of hiring in your location and they hope to get some more. Of course, when these people get qualified they mark them up for duty on the extra board. They're expecting more business, which means more regular pool assignments, which means everyone' s lot in life improves. But, be forewarned, you might work some of the time like its nuts and you'll meet yourself coming and going and there will be other times where it'll die on the vine, as CSX engineer said. He's right, I've experienced all kinds of extra boards, there's nothing like being first out subject to call for four or five days and I've experienced that but that was on an engineer's extra board with slow business and a slow turning pool. I was begging them to cut me back, this was well before the days of guaranteed extra boards.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

you are garrenteed nothing on an extra board long the lines of how much you will work... i have worked the boards for years... sometimes i have worked every 8 to 10 hours..getting out on my rest... the thier have been other times where i would sit at home for days at a time..and only make 3 trips in a week... extra boards are way to hard to predict as far as how much work you will get... they are always a crapshoot... way to many factors in to figering out how much or how little you will work....
csx engineer

I appreciate that advice. And, they have been very honest in emphasizing that there is no guartantee.


But, the way things went today (and I'm being serious, I expected to go in there and get the door slammed in my face early on) their biggest concern seemed to be in confirming that, if accepted, I was willing to work MEGA hours...

Of course, how long that boom will last,.. is anybody's guess.