Euclid Overmod Keep in mind that, just as no amount of stationary car inspection would divulge the kind of bearing failure in accidents like the one at East Palestine, no 'civilian' addition of devices scanning the outer face of the truck for 'heating' would. Only temperature detection that accesses the inside roller bearing area, or can be pointed to it during operation, would work. It might be mentioned that no scanning or sensor-fusing (e.g. IR and high-frequency sound analysis) located outside the plate clearance will work -- you need something like an arrangement of mirrors or fiber-optics that can 'point' at the area of the inside bearing from below, subject to dust, weather, and other damage. Why did the hot bearing detectors fail to prevent the East Palestine derailment?
Overmod Keep in mind that, just as no amount of stationary car inspection would divulge the kind of bearing failure in accidents like the one at East Palestine, no 'civilian' addition of devices scanning the outer face of the truck for 'heating' would. Only temperature detection that accesses the inside roller bearing area, or can be pointed to it during operation, would work. It might be mentioned that no scanning or sensor-fusing (e.g. IR and high-frequency sound analysis) located outside the plate clearance will work -- you need something like an arrangement of mirrors or fiber-optics that can 'point' at the area of the inside bearing from below, subject to dust, weather, and other damage.
Keep in mind that, just as no amount of stationary car inspection would divulge the kind of bearing failure in accidents like the one at East Palestine, no 'civilian' addition of devices scanning the outer face of the truck for 'heating' would.
Only temperature detection that accesses the inside roller bearing area, or can be pointed to it during operation, would work. It might be mentioned that no scanning or sensor-fusing (e.g. IR and high-frequency sound analysis) located outside the plate clearance will work -- you need something like an arrangement of mirrors or fiber-optics that can 'point' at the area of the inside bearing from below, subject to dust, weather, and other damage.
Why did the hot bearing detectors fail to prevent the East Palestine derailment?
Because HBD's do not detect the temperature of both bearing raceways... Onboard bearing detection needs to become a thing.
we got infrafred thermometer thingies now. Plus a templestik. Down to 180 degrees now? I have 3 generations of them - all keep getting lower and lower.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
The temp sticks are still used. I think checking 20 axles either side of the indicated axle is standard.
If the stick doesn't melt, then the instructions are to place your hand towards the outer edge of the bearing and move it inwards towards the wheel. Being careful that the bearing could be really hot as you move your hand.
I always liked what the old heads said to do. Spit on it. If it spits back, it's hot.
Jeff
PS. Don't take that last part to mean railfans should be spitting at passing trains.
tree68And to think, we used to rely on (and may still) Tempil sticks...
I believe Tempil Sticks are still used by Conductors when their trains are stopped by DD's for reported hot bearing to confirm the electronic report of the DD. There are cases where the Tempil Sticks don't melt on the 'reported axle'. Per CSX Rules Conductors are requried to check 20 axles on either side of the reported one.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
And to think, we used to rely on (and may still) Tempil sticks...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
This video demonstrates various aspect of CSX operations including a number of Defect Detector radio reports
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojYEPdSvIZc
BaltACD Want to create CHAOS? Your idea would do it. FRA Regulations REQUIRE journals to be inspected by wayside Defect Detectors at least ONCE for every 50 miles the train travels. Shortly after that regulation was implemented carriers (at least the one I worked for) started installing Defect Detector at approximate 25 miles spacing - with a Detector being Out of Service, for whatever the reason a train could continue to the next Detector and still be in compliance with the regulations. In more recent times (21st Century) carries have taken to placing Detectors on a 10 to 15 mile spacing. If a train, for whatever the reason, goes 50 miles WITHOUT being inspected by a Defect Detector, the train is to be stopped and the Conductor is to make a on the ground inspection of both sides of the train. Defect Detectors broadcast their findings over the Road Radio Channel for the territory where they are located after the rear of the train clears the Detector. Defects will be identified by axle number and side (If the railroad is Timetable E-W, then the sides will be N-S; if the railroad is N-S then the sides are E-W). Detectors can be set to identify more than a single defect location, at whatever limit the carrier sets, if more than the limit are detected - the radio message will identify the defects to the limit and will then broadcast 'More Defects - Inspect entire train'. In addition to the radio messages, the data of the inspection is retained on site. I believe most detectors in the 21st Century on the Class 1 carriers can have their data wirelessly down loaded to Signal Department Technician when necessary. Carriers take their Defect Detectors very seriously; much more seriously than 'rail fans' understand. Defect Detectors have electronic 'self checking' and can report that the device is 'Not Working'. If a Crew gets a Detector Not Working message, they will immediatly report that to the Train Dispatcher who will give the information to the Signal Technicians who will then dispatch the Signal Maintainer responsible for the particular detector. If the train crew gets an 'improper' detector message that is also reported through the Train Dispatcher channel. As info I own several Harbor Freight 'Infra Red Thermometers'; these do what I ask of them around the house and home shop. I would hate to use them to measure, record and identify bearing temperature on a passing train. As a concerned 'rail fan' stopped at a crossing watching a train pass, the best thing you can do is to be visually observant for smoke or fire coming from a journal or to be audio aware of a high pitched squeel of a failing bearing. If either of these conditions are noted contact the railroad at the telephone number that is on the license plate sized blue sign that is afixed to the crossing protection stantion - on both sides of the track. Identify the car initial and number if possible to the personnel that answer the phone. Most helpful. Thanks for sharing your expertise!
Want to create CHAOS? Your idea would do it.
FRA Regulations REQUIRE journals to be inspected by wayside Defect Detectors at least ONCE for every 50 miles the train travels.
Shortly after that regulation was implemented carriers (at least the one I worked for) started installing Defect Detector at approximate 25 miles spacing - with a Detector being Out of Service, for whatever the reason a train could continue to the next Detector and still be in compliance with the regulations. In more recent times (21st Century) carries have taken to placing Detectors on a 10 to 15 mile spacing. If a train, for whatever the reason, goes 50 miles WITHOUT being inspected by a Defect Detector, the train is to be stopped and the Conductor is to make a on the ground inspection of both sides of the train.
Defect Detectors broadcast their findings over the Road Radio Channel for the territory where they are located after the rear of the train clears the Detector. Defects will be identified by axle number and side (If the railroad is Timetable E-W, then the sides will be N-S; if the railroad is N-S then the sides are E-W). Detectors can be set to identify more than a single defect location, at whatever limit the carrier sets, if more than the limit are detected - the radio message will identify the defects to the limit and will then broadcast 'More Defects - Inspect entire train'.
In addition to the radio messages, the data of the inspection is retained on site. I believe most detectors in the 21st Century on the Class 1 carriers can have their data wirelessly down loaded to Signal Department Technician when necessary.
Carriers take their Defect Detectors very seriously; much more seriously than 'rail fans' understand.
Defect Detectors have electronic 'self checking' and can report that the device is 'Not Working'. If a Crew gets a Detector Not Working message, they will immediatly report that to the Train Dispatcher who will give the information to the Signal Technicians who will then dispatch the Signal Maintainer responsible for the particular detector. If the train crew gets an 'improper' detector message that is also reported through the Train Dispatcher channel.
As info I own several Harbor Freight 'Infra Red Thermometers'; these do what I ask of them around the house and home shop. I would hate to use them to measure, record and identify bearing temperature on a passing train. As a concerned 'rail fan' stopped at a crossing watching a train pass, the best thing you can do is to be visually observant for smoke or fire coming from a journal or to be audio aware of a high pitched squeel of a failing bearing. If either of these conditions are noted contact the railroad at the telephone number that is on the license plate sized blue sign that is afixed to the crossing protection stantion - on both sides of the track. Identify the car initial and number if possible to the personnel that answer the phone.
I once reported a misplaced tarp (it was hanging off the car) to CSX on a train at Deshler - from my home in NY. The operator was a bit incredulous, but took my report.
When getting the number off the blue placard at the crossing, make note of the crossing number as well. "Smith Street in Podunk" isn't as much good to them as crossing 123456P.
I, too, have an IR thermometer, but I don't know the parameters that would apply to bearings. If it's smoking, glowing, or stinks, odds are it needs attention.
As an aside, last year I measured the temperature of the steel slabs that pass through Deshler enroute to Middletown, OH. Some of them came in still at 200°F.
Balt has hit the nail on the head. If you see something of concern, call the emergency number. I've had to inspect for a shifted load because of a concerned citizen calling it in.
The proposed Rail Safety Act in the Senate, the House version and NTSA address hotbox detection post East Palestine. It occurred to me that it would be useful if a handheld infrared heat measuring device were available, a citizen could do surveillance of a passing train for overheateed journals at a public grade crossing. This would be a way for a volunteer fire department to add an additional surveillance layer. Has the railroad maintained their hotbox detector? Is it functioning? Has the railroad notified the crew? Has dispatching staff acted in a timely fashion? Is there a heat detection hardware available for a citizen to use?
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