see story linked @More than just a glorified truck driver - Railway Age
The story was sent to me by a long tinme F.B. acquaintance, 'Tuch' Santucci [retiredL Engineer]; I tought it would be an interesting read, for some hwere on this Forum.
"Commentary,July 16, 2018 C&S/IT
FTA:"...The late Louis W. Menk once said that locomotive engineers were “nothing more than glorified truck drivers.” Those words stuck in my head throughout my 35-year railroad career—mostly spent as a locomotive engineer. To be quite honest, the thought of them angered me every time I climbed into the cab of my locomotive. I was determined to prove him wrong—to be the best damn engineer in the world..."
Further> FTA:"...To be placed in proper context, Menk spoke those words as chief executive of Burlington Northern, at a time when labor and management had locked horns in contentious national contract negotiations. Yet even in today’s technologically advanced world of railroading, I sense the same regard for the men and women who place their hands on the throttles of the machines that move America’s railroads: “Aw, come on. How hard can it be?”
FTA[cont.]:"...I’ve always thought Menk was merely reflecting a defiant position meant to justify management’s bargaining position. However, after absorbing the results of reaction to testimony given in recent National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) hearings, I’m not so sure that we’re still not attempting to lessen the importance of the position of locomotive engineer, especially with predictions that someday soon, trains will safely race across the country void of any human touch.
The two key findings so far in the Dec. 18, 2017 deadly Amtrak Cascades crash seem to focus on the 30 MPH curves on an otherwise mostly 79 MPH route, and the training—or more aptly, the lack of it—afforded the locomotive engineers who were to operate over the newer passenger-train-only section of track. One headline claimed that the engineer was given only a minute or so seconds to familiarize himself with the controls of the new Charger locomotive picked to lead the inaugural train..."
[cont.]"...I’m not technologically trained to the degree to which I feel qualified to comment on the engineering wisdom of designing a route with a 30 MPH speed restriction in the middle of a 79 MPH stretch of track. I don’t know the grade or other factors that should have been taken into consideration. Neither am I in a position to comment on the specific incident itself. I’ve never run a train of any description in that area of the country. I’m retired and I live on the East Coast, although I’ve been in the Pacific Northwest, where I rode and took pictures of operations there as an Amtrak company photographer.
I can draw on my personal experiences, though...".
[NOTE: The linked story goes on to tell the whole story, at length, ] Personally, I operated oiver 25 years O.T.R. "Tuch'; is also retired from his career as an.. engineer... Both of us are rail fans ;l. hope some here, will find this story of interest, as well,
21st Century 'management' believes that the only jobs that require knowledge and experience are their own. At one time New Hires - no matter the craft they were hiring into came on board in positions that permitted them to learn their craft with OJT and other experienced (promoted) craft employees to supervise and educate the New Hires. Hire on as a brakeman or fireman and in addition to learning 'your own' job; being in a position to observe and learn the next step up the ladder.
In the 21st Century all those 'new hire' jobs no longer exist. The closest is to hire on as a Conductor off the street with requirement/expectation of going to Engineer's School within a year or so - and if you don't pass Engineers School you are terminated. Dispatchers get hired off the street and go through the Dispatcher/CADS training and once 'qualified' you are a Dispatcher.
I have no real idea of what is taking place in MofW and/or the Shop crafts but I am certain the 'training' category of jobs no longer exist as they did 30 or 40 years ago.
And then everybody acts surprised when we have an incident like the Folkston head on collision. https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/RRD24LR011.aspx
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Just like Cayce, the folks on the ground left the switch misaligned, and just like at Cayce (as Joe pointed out repeatedly at the time) correct observation of 'restricted speed' extending to observation of switch-point alignment would have prevented (not just mitigated) any accident. The language in the NTSB report about "reaffirming" this as if it were CSX SOP for signal outages would be good for a chuckle if the context weren't so serious
I would have taken it as a compliment..he did say glorified, and truck driving requires alot of skill as well.
Truck drivers can use their phones and listen to music in the cab while driving. And they can take naps when they need them.
I can back to a dock a lot easier, though.
And no, I really don't care if osme think we're "glorified truck drivers". At least not to the point I get angry when I step into the cab. That's just a little too much drama.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
I would love for one of these Railroad CEO's to take one of my trucks over Donner in a blizzard when chains are required. Or over Wyoming when the winds are whipping crosswise at over 60 MPH over Elk Mountain. Better yet ride with one of my local boys making deliveries all over Chicago without getting into an accident then tell me that his engineers are just Glorified Truck Drivers they deal with way more BS than my kids at work deal with.
Shadow the Cats ownerI would love for one of these Railroad CEO's to take one of my trucks over Donner in a blizzard when chains are required. Or over Wyoming when the winds are whipping crosswise at over 60 MPH over Elk Mountain. Better yet ride with one of my local boys making deliveries all over Chicago without getting into an accident then tell me that his engineers are just Glorified Truck Drivers they deal with way more BS than my kids at work deal with.
Your statements would be apropo to most CEO's in both industries - trucking and railroads.
One senior official that might be able to master the worst of territories from the Engineer's seat on the railroads would have been Cindy Sanborn. While being born with a 'sliver spoon' from her fathers executive positions on multiple carriers, Ms. Sanborn did earn her 'Engineer's Card' and while employeed with CSX she kept it current.
Starting with the title of this post, it's just trash-talking, in my opinion. Every professional hears this kind of nonsense from time to time. I think it may have its roots in jealousy or ego-tripping. In any event, it's best ignored.
I was a high school teacher in superior high schools where a half-dozen teachers or more had PhD's, and yet some call us "glorified baby sitters" or "glorified day care workers."
Executive Assistants or Executive Secretaries are sometimes referred to as "glorified secretaries," as if they were mere typists.
Fred Trump told his son who aspired to being a commercial airline captain that such men were "glorified bus drivers."
I'm sure there are other examples. For some jobs it just goes with the territory.
Overmod Truck drivers can use their phones and listen to music in the cab while driving. And they can take naps when they need them.
Hopefully not when driving.
True about the music, but can't really take a nap when you want to..parking spots are often hard or next to impossible to find in some areas, and simply pulling off to the side and snoozing isn't allowed either.. tried that once in NJ years ago. It didn't work out so well.
charlie hebdoHopefully not when driving.
Russell
It was meant as an insult and I'd take it as such. And that attitude never went away.
We're "glorified truck drivers", "train trash"*, or "snow n------"** when they want to cut our pay and time off, but we're essential safety-critical workers whenever a world crisis happens or we might go on strike.
*How some of UP's modern management refers to train crews.
**Hunter Harrison's nickname for Canadian railroaders.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
UlrichTrue about the music, but can't really take a nap when you want to..parking spots are often hard or next to impossible to find in some areas, and simply pulling off to the side and snoozing isn't allowed either.. tried that once in NJ years ago. It didn't work out so well.
I do my long distance traveling at night. Most Interstate rest areas are full of 18 wheelers adhereing to Elog's rest provisions for free. It is not enough that they occupy every designated parking are at the rest area they use the shoulder all along the entrance and exit ramps of the rest area. When you pass the rest areas once the sun is in the sky - most all truck spot are wide open.
BaltACD Ulrich True about the music, but can't really take a nap when you want to..parking spots are often hard or next to impossible to find in some areas, and simply pulling off to the side and snoozing isn't allowed either.. tried that once in NJ years ago. It didn't work out so well. I do my long distance traveling at night. Most Interstate rest areas are full of 18 wheelers adhereing to Elog's rest provisions for free. It is not enough that they occupy every designated parking are at the rest area they use the shoulder all along the entrance and exit ramps of the rest area. When you pass the rest areas once the sun is in the sky - most all truck spot are wide open.
Ulrich True about the music, but can't really take a nap when you want to..parking spots are often hard or next to impossible to find in some areas, and simply pulling off to the side and snoozing isn't allowed either.. tried that once in NJ years ago. It didn't work out so well.
The general rule of thumb is if you need to stop then there are no spots available. If you don't need to stop then there are lots of spots available.
I've seen that regularly at the service areas on the Tri-State Tollway (I-294) in the Chicago area. They often park on the shoulder just past the end of the ramps.
SD70Dude It was meant as an insult and I'd take it as such. And that attitude never went away. We're "glorified truck drivers", "train trash"*, or "snow n------"** when they want to cut our pay and time off, but we're essential safety-critical workers whenever a world crisis happens or we might go on strike. *How some of UP's modern management refers to train crews. **Hunter Harrison's nickname for Canadian railroaders.
Glorified truck driver.. meh..ok. The other two obviously not acceptable..
At least we're no longer featherbedders. At least for the moment.
Jeff
OP's note: I posted this articlre, after reading it, a couple of times. My hope was it would stir s spirited discussion on theForum. Posters here are a pretty eclkectic group in their working experiences.
Mine was in Transportation on the trucking side; OTR and in OIffice. As a long time rail fan, I had only a side-swipe of experience, around working railroaders. I did recognize that there is a deep division in many cases, of those that WORK for a living, and those that manage foir a living.
Not to also mentionm, the various prejudices' we all seem to hold, as a social group. The compartmentaluzation of various ';dufferences' to suit an individual's personality. Those dvisions seem to exist through out our social orders.
The biggest problem is that for many jobs, including truck drivers and locomotive engineers, is that the public only sees one part of the job. (That public also includes those techs and programmers trying to automate people out of the job.) They only see the truck drivers as driving down the road. Engineers as only running down the rails. There's a lot more to both jobs that the public doesn't see and therefore doesn't think about.
I think that also applies to many in management today who didn't work their way up from the ranks or at least field management. A few years ago when western Iowa and eastern Nebraska had some major flooding, we had people (mostly management support type) out of the headquarters building drive crews around. One young woman who worked an accounting position, had no real idea of what the train crews actually did. Just talking with her, what she did and (because it was a time when cuts in her job level were happening/PSR cost cuts) of the general mood in the office people, was an education for both us and her.
Jeff/Train Trash. (I always thought we should've had T-shirts made up.)
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